Value of: Young Anaheim D (Theodore, Manson, Montour, Larsson)

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Vaatenan has been hot garbage so far for Finland not much value their.

Im sure meaningless exhibition games are going to discredit him ... was that serious?

 

[J0sh]

Matthews should be untouchable. He's your blue chip center project with top line upside.

But if you want to accelerate your rebuild you need a blue chip elite defenseman with ahl experience.... Someone who can play with Reilly in 1-2 years. You can't draft and develop a dman that quickly and trading for one is impossible (see edmonton).

Leafs fans sorry but i know you like JVR, Marner, Nylander but its in your best interest to aquire someone like montour. You can try drafting one next year with a top 5 pick but dont be surprised if it takes 5 years before he sees the nhl.

 

[scan15*]

Matthews should be untouchable. He's your blue chip center project with top line upside.

But if you want to accelerate your rebuild you need a blue chip elite defenseman with ahl experience.... Someone who can play with Reilly in 1-2 years. You can't draft and develop a dman that quickly and trading for one is impossible (see edmonton).

Leafs fans sorry but i know you like JVR, Marner, Nylander but its in your best interest to aquire someone like montour. You can try drafting one next year with a top 5 pick but dont be surprised if it takes 5 years before he sees the nhl.

Boy will you be disappointed when Montour eventually gets dealt.

 

[Magic Man]

Matthews should be untouchable. He's your blue chip center project with top line upside.

But if you want to accelerate your rebuild you need a blue chip elite defenseman with ahl experience.... Someone who can play with Reilly in 1-2 years. You can't draft and develop a dman that quickly and trading for one is impossible (see edmonton).

Leafs fans sorry but i know you like JVR, Marner, Nylander but its in your best interest to aquire someone like montour. You can try drafting one next year with a top 5 pick but dont be surprised if it takes 5 years before he sees the nhl.

The Leafs can draft a dman with their likely top-10 selection in next year's entry draft. The Leafs likely wouldn't have issue dealing JVR for a defensive upgrade. Montour isn't much more exciting to the Leafs future than names like Zaitsev, Carrick, Dermott, Nielsen and Valiev. They're not dealing 1st line talent for an A or B prospect level talent. They need a legit blue chip type of young talent in return. If that's all the Ducks have to offer they need to lower their demands in order to facilitate a trade.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

The Leafs can draft a dman with their likely top-10 selection in next year's entry draft. The Leafs likely wouldn't have issue dealing JVR for a defensive upgrade. Montour isn't much more exciting to the Leafs future than names like Zaitsev, Carrick, Dermott, Nielsen and Valiev. They're not dealing 1st line talent for an A or B prospect level talent. They need a legit blue chip type of young talent in return. If that's all the Ducks have to offer they need to lower their demands in order to facilitate a trade.

We don't have any demands, I don't think we're looking to trade our dmen prospects. Fowler despres stoner or bieska sure... but our prospects we likely want to hold on too.

 

[Paul4587]

I keep seeing Nylander and Marner being lumped into the same tier of prospect, am I the only one who thinks Nylander is a significantly better prospect?

As far as trading Theodore to Toronto Marner would have to be coming back. Nylander would be preferable but that's a long shot. Theodore tore apart juniors and looked very good in his first cup of coffee at the NHL level, the difference between him and Marner in value is nowhere near as much as Leafs fans think it is. He's still a bit raw but his vision and offensive ability is better than any of the other young dmen we've brought into the NHL in recent years. I would say his offensive tools are the best of any defensemen we've had since Visnovsky.

 

[supersonic jet]

Im sure meaningless exhibition games are going to discredit him ... was that serious?

I have never really paid attention to him in the past. Have not seen many ducks games either. It has just been this tournament that I have paid attention because we have a player on the team. I will take your word for it that he normally awesome. Look forward to see everyone get better as the tournament progresses.

 

[anezthes]

I keep seeing Nylander and Marner being lumped into the same tier of prospect, am I the only one who thinks Nylander is a significantly better prospect?

No, you're not alone in thinking that.

 

[scan15*]

I keep seeing Nylander and Marner being lumped into the same tier of prospect, am I the only one who thinks Nylander is a significantly better prospect?

As far as trading Theodore to Toronto Marner would have to be coming back. Nylander would be preferable but that's a long shot. Theodore tore apart juniors and looked very good in his first cup of coffee at the NHL level, the difference between him and Marner in value is nowhere near as much as Leafs fans think it is. He's still a bit raw but his vision and offensive ability is better than any of the other young dmen we've brought into the NHL in recent years. I would say his offensive tools are the best of any defensemen we've had since Visnovsky.

Well, Toronto hasn't seen Marner even play in the NHL. So it's a significant risk to trade him before he gets any professional experience.

If Marner turns out as a Giroux type of player, then the current management group will look worse than JFJ. That is my only reasoning for making both Nylander and Marner untouchable.

 

[Paul4587]

Well, Toronto hasn't seen Marner even play in the NHL. So it's a significant risk to trade him before he gets any professional experience.

If Marner turns out as a Giroux type of player, then the current management group will look worse than JFJ. That is my only reasoning for making both Nylander and Marner untouchable.

Or he could turn out into a 15 goal, 40 point player (or worse) - it goes both ways. Ducks fans thought they had a stud with Etem after he scored 61 goals in juniors and then had a dominant playoff series against Detroit in his rookie year. In hindsight the Ducks should have moved him early on when he had value instead of waiting until he was barely a 4th liner.

So yes there is risk in trading a top prospect before he hits the NHL but there's also a massive risk for the GM acquiring that guy in case he goes the other way and doesn't meet expectations.

Anyway I'm not trying to say the Leafs should trade Marner, just that if the Ducks trade Theodore to Toronto he is who we would want back.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I have never really paid attention to him in the past. Have not seen many ducks games either. It has just been this tournament that I have paid attention because we have a player on the team. I will take your word for it that he normally awesome. Look forward to see everyone get better as the tournament progresses.

Yea he has looked bad so far, but he was arguably one of the better players for finland @ last Olympics... and hes one of the more offensive talented dmen in the league, his dzone coverage gets a bit over looked but hes no slouch there either.


I expect its just a bit of rust from the offseason added to the fact that they were meaningless games... I suspect hell look a lot better during the actual tournyment

 

[eternalbedhead]

Kapanen has produced like a top-6 forward in the AHL, FEL and WJC as an 18/19 year old. That's actually quite impressive. He was thought of in the same class as Nylander at draft time but fell a little bit. He was moved as the main piece for star forward Phil Kessel. A guy like Larsson has not done one thing to exceed Kapanen in value, he probably has less.

Brown is 22 and only has 7 NHL games. But, guess what, Montour is 22 and hasn't played a single game at the NHL level. What elevates Montour's status above Brown's? They've both seen that major development spike over the past few years.

I don't want to trade the Leafs prospects for the Ducks D prospects, either. I am just acknowledging the value is closer to what I'm proposing then Ducks fans are asking. I'm mentioning prospects that have almost identical value to one another, even though I don't want to trade them. Ducks fans are asking for literally the best prospects in the world for these guys.

It's like Habs fans asking for JVR for Juulsen. Literally asking for top of the lineup talent, for stuff way way down your list.

It's not quite the value that is the problem. In a world where we make trades just for the purpose of making trades, something involving a defenseman not named Theodore for one of your B-level prospects would be fine.

But we're not making trades for fun. This whole thread has been beating a straw man. We're not interested in Toronto's B-level prospects, and Toronto isn't interested in ours.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Marner/Nylander are considered in every prospect ranking published to be a top-10 prospect. On most they're top-5. Theodore wasn't a top-10 prospect pre-draft.

Pre draft ranking is irrelevant now.

Theo at the time of his draft was not comparable to Marner/Nylander at the time of their's. Theo has played 3 seasons post draft and has not become a full-time NHL'er. Marner and Nylander are locks for this season. Nylander in his 3rd post draft season and Marner in his 2nd.

Theodore is a lock for the ducks, you continue to show limited knowledge of a team that you seem to think you know alot about.

The Leafs could make a list of assets similar to the Sens list that could be made available for Theo. But, he doesn't get those particular assets.

Why would the leafs ever have to
make a trade since they have so much more talent than everyone

 

[Magic Man]

Pre draft ranking is irrelevant now.



Theodore is a lock for the ducks, you continue to show limited knowledge of a team that you seem to think you know alot about.


Why would the leafs ever have to
make a trade since they have so much more talent than everyone

I mean before the most recent draft, he wasn't considered a top-10 league wide prospect. That's before the new draft picks from this draft were picked. Marner and Nylander were before and are still. They are considered to be on a higher level amongst their peers then Theodore.

Theodore is a lock for the Ducks in his 4th season post draft. Why has it taken him longer than it will for Marner and Nylander?

They have the best prospect pool in the league, that much isn't up for debate. I think the Leafs would have more interest in fair trades, more so then getting boned in a deal for their bluechips.

 

[anezthes]

Theodore is a lock for the Ducks in his 4th season post draft. Why has it taken him longer than it will for Marner and Nylander?

Being a "lock" doesn't mean much at all. Could be lack of depth. Doesn't necessarily mean you're ready/you'll be successful in the big leagues.

 

[Ace101]

I mean before the most recent draft, he wasn't considered a top-10 league wide prospect. That's before the new draft picks from this draft were picked. Marner and Nylander were before and are still. They are considered to be on a higher level amongst their peers then Theodore.

Theodore is a lock for the Ducks in his 4th season post draft. Why has it taken him longer than it will for Marner and Nylander?

They have the best prospect pool in the league, that much isn't up for debate. I think the Leafs would have more interest in fair trades, more so then getting boned in a deal for their bluechips.

It's not like they play different positions or anything. Not like defence men take longer to develop usually or anything.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Theodore is a lock for the Ducks in his 4th season post draft. Why has it taken him longer than it will for Marner and Nylander?

Maybe you haven't noticed but AnA has one of the deepest blue lines in the league. Why rush a prospect when your already stacked at his position? You could also, you know, develop the player to your expectations

 

[McSuper]

What would Anaheim fans want from Toronto for each of these guys?

Who is the cheapest to acquire?

. We need all the D named Larsson . Cost ?

 

[Magic Man]

. We need all the D named Larsson . Cost ?

Choice of Puljujarvi or Draisaitl

 

[scan15*]

. We need all the D named Larsson . Cost ?

Top 15 protected 1st round pick + Yakupov

 

[dracom]

Top 15 protected 1st round pick + Yakupov

protected 1st round picks are the dumbest trading asset out there.

"Here, take this valuable pick, but if it's becomes too valuable we want it back!"

 

[Paul4587]

Top 15 protected 1st round pick + Yakupov

Not a chance. Don't want Yakupov and a mid to low 1st rounder is less valuable than Larsson after the year he had.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I mean before the most recent draft, he wasn't considered a top-10 league wide prospect. That's before the new draft picks from this draft were picked. Marner and Nylander were before and are still. They are considered to be on a higher level amongst their peers then Theodore.

Who cares, over the years people have been consistently wrong about young players the ducks have had. Nobody ranked Hampus Lindholm among the top young d prospects, and lo and behold he's one of the best young dmen in the league

Theodore is a lock for the Ducks in his 4th season post draft. Why has it taken him longer than it will for Marner and Nylander?

They have the best prospect pool in the league, that much isn't up for debate. I think the Leafs would have more interest in fair trades, more so then getting boned in a deal for their bluechips.

well for one, the common belief is transitioning to the NHL on defense is much more difficult than it is for a forward, second, the ducks have been trying to win, the leafs the last few years have been in a rebuild. I would suggest that it is more difficult to make a team that has won it's division 4 straight times, than it is to make a bad team like Toronto. Also Theodore played in 19 games last year and 6 playoff games last year, which is an indication of how close he was last year.

 

[dkollidas]

Just curious which defenseman Anaheim would be willing to part with in order to ditch Bieksa. $4M cap hit, plus the NMC plus allows them to possibly keep Fowler along with Lindholm & Rakell.

Would Anaheim fans be willing to look at something like...

Bieksa + Montour/Larsson/etc

For

2017 2nd + B- prospect?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Just curious which defenseman Anaheim would be willing to part with in order to ditch Bieksa. $4M cap hit, plus the NMC plus allows them to possibly keep Fowler along with Lindholm & Rakell.

Would Anaheim fans be willing to look at something like...

Bieksa + Montour/Larsson/etc

For

2017 2nd + B- prospect?

I would bee interested in that personally... but Idk that bieska would waive to go to Toronto... I'm guessing he wants to be with a contender.


Stoner + Montour(Bieska if hell waive)

for

2017 2nd + 1 of Bracco/brown/kapanen

would be a decent starting point for conversations I think.