Yeah Sullivan Sucks, but Dubas needs to be talked about too...
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HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
Dubas is speed running the Worst Pens GM any%, no toolassist either.
Pens x
Registered User
- Oct 8, 2016
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Zbynek
Jarry friggin sucks dude
Listen, I came on your boards warning you pens fans of dubas’s ways having watched his work for 5 yrs in leaf land. I was met with great restraint that he would right the ship. So I backed off and let it play out knowing full well you would eventually see what I have witnessed. He sucks, you’re fortunate you have him in a time where you want to suck to rebuild. Hopefully you will have someone more competent when he is fired in 6 yrs
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
You're clearly not watching the games and have no idea why they are losing. So why are you talking?
What does Dubas have to do with Crosby, Letang, Karlsson, Pettersson, Bunting, Jarry all playing well below their averages, all at the same time? That's a coaching issue.
Most of his off-season work involved restructuring the bottom-six. They're scoring quite well and a few of them have helped the PK. Plus guys like Glass and Hayes are here because they came with picks attached, not for performance this season. They are cap dumps.
All of his trades have made sense or are outright wins.
I'll blame Dubas for hiring Quinn. Not sure he has the authority to fire Sullivan. Maybe. We'll see. Ownership adore him.
Didn't like the Grzelcyk signing either. Otherwise I got no issues with his choices this off-season.
Pens x
Registered User
- Oct 8, 2016
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It amazes me people are still trying to defend Dubas. Our roster is pathetic. We have one injury and suddenly Hayes is a 2C, for example.
Sullivan sucks but Dubas has been awful too.
wgknestrick
Registered User
- Aug 14, 2012
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People assume Dubas's job is to create a winning hockey team in 1-2 years, and that's an impossible task. It's to create a winning team in 7-10 years, and most here have zero clue on how to accomplish that.
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
I am trying to speak the truth, as I see it, like I've done for 7 years here. Taking sides doesn't interest me, even when they're my favorites or least favorites.
Hayes has played well this year and I got zero problems with him at 2C for a game. It's not that prestigious of a position on a shit team. He deserved more minutes than 8 at ES a night.
He's straight up outplayed Sid at even-strength prior to this game.
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
Well if they wanted that 7-10 year window thing then they should have started a full-scale rebuild the moment he got here. That's how long it takes. They didn't have leeway to throw multiple years away like this, and sign guys like Jarry and Graves to huge contracts. Sid shouldn't have been re-signed either.
pistolpete11
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2013
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When critiquing Dubas, I think you need to first answer:
"Are they actually trying to compete?"
If the answer to that is "no, they are rebuilding and just not admitting it out loud", then I think it's an incomplete for Dubas and we will see what he does with Petts and Eller at the TDL and Karlsson, Rust, Rakell, etc. in the coming years.
If the answer to that is "yes", then....lol. Keeping Sullivan is unforgivable and there is a massive glaring hole at 1LW while they keep spending a ton on the bottom 6. I lean towards the side that says Jarry and Graves just suck and were massive mistakes, but I'd leave open the possibility that Sullivan ruins players.
Edit: And I don't buy the "he can't fire Sullivan" excuse. Maybe he can't technically be the one to do it, but he can go to FSG and say he needs to go. It's not a difficult point to make.
"Are they actually trying to compete?"
If the answer to that is "no, they are rebuilding and just not admitting it out loud", then I think it's an incomplete for Dubas and we will see what he does with Petts and Eller at the TDL and Karlsson, Rust, Rakell, etc. in the coming years.
If the answer to that is "yes", then....lol. Keeping Sullivan is unforgivable and there is a massive glaring hole at 1LW while they keep spending a ton on the bottom 6. I lean towards the side that says Jarry and Graves just suck and were massive mistakes, but I'd leave open the possibility that Sullivan ruins players.
Edit: And I don't buy the "he can't fire Sullivan" excuse. Maybe he can't technically be the one to do it, but he can go to FSG and say he needs to go. It's not a difficult point to make.
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Sadly, at the root of all of this is Mario; They had just won their 3rd cup with the core and were at a crossroad. From that moment forward, with every decision made, they made the wrong choice; ending with Mario cashing out, taking his bag full of pucks and running.
I won't go into detail with the many wrong decisions, but the biggest and still most damaging one was Sullivan. He went from a failed coach who couldn't sniff an NHL HC job for over a decade to the most powerful man in the organization within an 18 month window. Dubas is just the latest lackey holding Sully's pocket and will be made the next fall guy.
Sully ain't goin nowhere. FSG thinks he invented the sport and USA Hockey cemented him here until at least 26.
I won't go into detail with the many wrong decisions, but the biggest and still most damaging one was Sullivan. He went from a failed coach who couldn't sniff an NHL HC job for over a decade to the most powerful man in the organization within an 18 month window. Dubas is just the latest lackey holding Sully's pocket and will be made the next fall guy.
Sully ain't goin nowhere. FSG thinks he invented the sport and USA Hockey cemented him here until at least 26.
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
This.
…aaand this.
I tried to tell you guys. Dubas is not a good GM, and his handling of the goalie situation went as badly as I predicted on here.
I don't think he has been that bad aside from the Jarry and Graves contract. More so the Graves than Jarry imo. His hands were tied a bit regarding Jarry.
The trades have been good in my eyes.
EK trade was good at the time, but haven't worked out. But I still liked the effort of one last run.
Got decent value for Guentzel who didn't wanna stay.
Rest of the trades are the ones rebuilding tends SHOULD do. Take on players for picks. We got 2nd, 3rd, 6th and swaped a 5th for yet another 3rd to take Hayes and Glass.
Hayes had to play 2C for a game? So what? We got paid to take him on and tbh when we stack Sid and Geno on the same line it's Hayes, Eller or Glass as the 2C..
McG for Yager is impossible to judge for a few years.
The trades have been good in my eyes.
EK trade was good at the time, but haven't worked out. But I still liked the effort of one last run.
Got decent value for Guentzel who didn't wanna stay.
Rest of the trades are the ones rebuilding tends SHOULD do. Take on players for picks. We got 2nd, 3rd, 6th and swaped a 5th for yet another 3rd to take Hayes and Glass.
Hayes had to play 2C for a game? So what? We got paid to take him on and tbh when we stack Sid and Geno on the same line it's Hayes, Eller or Glass as the 2C..
McG for Yager is impossible to judge for a few years.
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
You liked the EK trade at the time so that makes it ok?? What about the people who hated the EK trade at the time, were they wrong then even though they're right now?
Well. With how it turned out ofc it was a bad trade. but all trades are easy to judge in hindsight.
Well I just said how I feel about Dubas work so far. How others feel? I have no clue.
What moves do you not like?
Zbynek
Jarry friggin sucks dude
Are you suggesting Jarry's performance post Dubas contract was surprising? Or worse, that he deserved the contract?
Bunting as a trade piece for Jake (one of the best wingers available at the TDL of the past decade) with no 1st coming back is a joke. The prospects he got back from Carolina, by all indications so far, are dogshit as well.
Yes those other 4 guys are underperforming right now. But the 2 bolded guys are 100% on Dubas. And so many of the other new issues this team has since last season.
Pretty much Dubas' only good signing/move was Lars Eller. And Ned maybe? If you can name one other thing he's done well, I'm all ears!
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Dubas is one of 3 GMs responsible for the current state of this team. Even with all of the GMs combined, Sullivan is still to blame more for their current state.
- Jun 13, 2010
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I don't think it was post-17. I know a lot of people here try to say it was the Reaves trade that did it but I don't think that's accurate. The trade was Sundqvist+1st for Reaves+2nd and they took the same player with the 2nd that they would have with the 1st. So really, it was Sundqvist for Reaves which ultimately entire inconsequential. I also still understand why they went for him. JR watched us get punched around by Washington two straight years without consequence. You can't have Malkin being your tough-guy. That said, all would have been fine had Shero just taken Wilson in 2012 instead of Pouliot
They had Sheahan running as 3C and was okay but they really wanted to bolster that 3C spot so they got Brassard at 3C. From the 2024 perspective, the trade was a bust. But at the time, it made a ton of sense and instantly got people discussing a legitimate 3-peat. What I think turned the tide was the Guentzel injury. That happened right at the end of 2019, IIRC, which necessitated JR to go get a replacement 1LW and he got Zucker. From there, things seemed to get stagnant. Combine that with the good young players of 2016 getting older and demanding new deals and our utter refusal to move on or trade anyone that we "liked", I think that moment much more starts us on the path to mediocrity. Worse, I think JR made a pretty grave error when trading for Kapanen. Again, I get why he targeted him but the deal was just a complete and utter bust.
Late in the JR and in the Hextall eras, they were both continuations of the late-Shero era, where the only tweeks to the roster were older bandaids that had little impact. In 2018, they should have been willing to send out the likes of Sheary, Rust, Wilson, and their 1st/2nd for a decent-quality YOUNG 3C. Something that would have reinfused youth and energy into the lineup while reminding guys that nothing is forever. I said it at the time, but I would have maybe gone after Pageau instead of Brassard. He was 24 at the time and provided everything we would have wanted in a 3C. Someone would could have easily grown with the team and provided a better fit than Brassard.
That's all just humdrum though because the reality is, Crosby is 37 and Malkin is 38. Our core talent is past prime. No move turns back that clock and makes this team a contender. No draft we could have gotten outside of some major luck changes it either nor does any prospect we gave away. Nothing is forever.
Sike Mullivan
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- Nov 15, 2010
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Dont forget, Mario was exploring those options as well around 2013-14 when it looked like Bylsma/Shero shut the window on the core winning another cup. And there was the Blackberry guy in like 2006-ish.
BusinessGoose
Registered User
Yup. They couldn't find a buyer at like 700 mil with 400mil of real estate.. Then sold for better part of a billion after accidentally winning two Cups lol
Worked out great for Mario and Co
