Value of: Yamamoto + 2022 First

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I guess my point is it’s pretty ridiculous to suggest someone who scored nearly PPG as a rookie isn’t NHL caliber.

Is he boosted by playing with great players? Absolutely. Is he an offense driver? No, we haven’t seen that yet. Does he have value, as a complimentary top 6 winger who has proven to succeed with high end talent? Yes. There is a place for Yamamoto in the NHL and on a lot of teams.

I wouldn’t say he is extremely valuable, but he’d go higher in a redraft than the 22nd spot he was picked at. There were people on this site just 1 summer ago saying they wouldn’t even give up a 2nd for Puljujarvi, a lot can change quickly for young players.

And my point is that it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that those 27 games are definitely not a fluke and shouldn't be questioned, especially when he only has 21 points in his last 55 games. Hell, Yakupov had 18 points in the last 22 games of his rookie season. A few years later, he didn't get a QO. That isn't to suggest that Yamamoto is definitely on his way out, but it's certainly not impossible. He's still very much as risk to be out of the league before he hits 300 NHL games.

And, I don't disagree that there's a place for a kid like Yamamoto on a lot of teams. But, in terms of a trade, the issue is that pretty much every team has a kid like Yamamoto already. Why give up assets to get him instead of giving your own prospects a chance.

I do agree that he would probably go higher in a redraft today, but he's also one of only 15 players from his draft to play at least 100 games, so it's still really early for that to mean much.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Georgiev has looked REALLY rough. He’s not the kind of goalie you give up a 1st + bottom 6 player with some potential for. Even if you’re getting a 2nd rounder back

Maybe Georgiev is a bad example, but a 1st + Yamamoto for a 25ish year old backup G who looks like he could be a starter and a 2nd still isn't unreasonable value.

 

[glenbuis]

Gallagher, Chiarot, and Allen all help the Oilers in some way, so that's nice, but Bouchard is both a now and future piece for the Oilers. Maybe if you were asking for a purely futures piece like Holloway or Broberg.

I'd still have to think through whether Gallagher would be worth it even with a million retained. The Oilers might not be able to fit him in, and he might be more than a million overpaid.

fair enough . not willing to give up the farm on broberg and holloway though . maybe it could be further retention or a different piece or two added .

 

[Zahra Starker]

This is brutal… Bouchard is pretty damn close to untouchable, kid is playing impressive hockey. You’re asking the Oilers to trade him so they can add an aging forward that they absolutely do not need, a dman who would play on their bottom pairing and a backup goalie that has struggled this year and could upgrade for cheaper. Absolutely brutal proposal.

Gallagher would easily be your best winger. Literally any team in the league who are contending would add Gallagher to their team. Especially at 5.25 mill. Allen has struggled for 4 games sure but stop acting like the habs haven't been absolutely atrocious. He would be by far your best goalie and he's on a sweetheart of a deal. Chiarot at 50% would a steal. While we also acquire 2 f***ing huge cap dumps. Aint no way habs are trading all of that for a prospect who's stock has only dropped since being drafted.

 

[Zahra Starker]

This is what was said about Puljujarvi as well

Dude, put puljujarvi with 2 average top 6 players and he'd have about 1 point rn. He's played 3 games this season bedsides McDavid and you're acting as if he's a 1st liner. He's still a 3rd liner.

 

[Ragdoll]

Gallagher would easily be your best winger. Literally any team in the league who are contending would add Gallagher to their team. Especially at 5.25 mill. Allen has struggled for 4 games sure but stop acting like the habs haven't been absolutely atrocious. He would be by far your best goalie and he's on a sweetheart of a deal. Chiarot at 50% would a steal. While we also acquire 2 f***ing huge cap dumps. Aint no way habs are trading all of that for a prospect who's stock has only dropped since being drafted.

Gallagher our best winger? This is 2021-2022, not 2018. He’s a good player but with that contract, it’s not worth the risk. His game will fall off a cliff when he inevitably declines. Have you watched Oilers games? Smith has been good since last year and has continued to play well so far, Allen would be hardly an upgrade on Koskinen and that’s debatable. And Chiarot isn’t game changing whatsoever, would play on our bottom pair. You’re asking the Oilers to give up an impact young defenceman for those pieces… also both Oilers cap dumps only have one year left. They wouldn’t cost much to move, not to mention they’ve both been decent so far this year. We’re not giving up Bouchard to dump them.

 

[Connor McConnor]

To be clear, I meant a backup from another team who could be a starter, not someone to be your new backup.

But, since you asked, the Avs gave up a 1st + 2nd for Varlamov, who had only played 59 career games and was Washington's backup at the time.

Corey Schneider, the backup in Vancouver at the time, returned the 9 OA pick.

Is 1st + Yamamoto for something like Georgiev + 2nd that unreasonable?

You named 2 examples in like the past 7 years…and even then both examples are horrible since those guys were forced into starting roles due to injury before they were traded and both excelled, proving they were ready for a starter job.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

You named 2 examples in like the past 7 years…and even then both examples are horrible since those guys were forced into starting roles due to injury before they were traded and both excelled, proving they were ready for a starter job.

Right. That Schneider example is horrible since Vancouver had already told Luongo that Schneider was the guy moving forward and only after failing to move Loungo did the Canucks entertain the moving of Schneider. Everyone knew Schneider was legitimate. Georgiev isn't anywhere near that. An example would more be Shesterkin. Limited games played but clearly a stud goalie. Igor has played around 50 games, Schneider was around 100 games with his last 60 games hovering at a 2.00 gaa and .930% Anyone claiming Schneider at the time of trade as a backup with potential is off their rocker. He was already the starter the season he was traded.

 

[bernmeister]

re OP, Rangers have no interest in Yama.
We can talk about yr 1st.

1st+Jost for Georgiev + 2nd

Yes.
Jost is no sure thing, but would be more attractive to NY than Yama

If our best options in net were Koskinen and Smith, I'd seriously consider it, at the very least. I certainly don't consider it unreasonable, if that's what you're suggesting.

k

Georgiev has looked REALLY rough. He’s not the kind of goalie you give up a 1st + bottom 6 player with some potential for. Even if you’re getting a 2nd rounder back

disagree
Geo is hot and cold.
Presumably if he gets regular starts he more typically will run more hot than cold.
When he is hot he is good enuf to stonewall powerhouses and steal games, so no.
Geo is worth 2nd/2nd+/late 1st
slighlty more if salary retained

Maybe Georgiev is a bad example, but a 1st + Yamamoto for a 25ish year old backup G who looks like he could be a starter and a 2nd still isn't unreasonable value.

What available backup/co-starter is lights out?
What Shesty type is backing up a Hank L?
Where?
You get what you pay for and while he may have bad games here and there, Geo can also stonewall even good teams

 

[Bank Shot]

Dude, put puljujarvi with 2 average top 6 players and he'd have about 1 point rn. He's played 3 games this season bedsides McDavid and you're acting as if he's a 1st liner. He's still a 3rd liner.

I really hope you are Jesse's agent. Oilers could use a deal.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Dude, put puljujarvi with 2 average top 6 players and he'd have about 1 point rn. He's played 3 games this season bedsides McDavid and you're acting as if he's a 1st liner. He's still a 3rd liner.

NHL fans with bias last year: "Pulju is a bust, kid could only put up 0.4ppg playing with McDrai"

NHL fans with bias this year, Pulju putting up 2ppg: "Any scrub could put up 2ppg with McDrai"

You are funny. I can tell you have no hockey knowledge at all by your posts but the fact you speak with pure ignorance makes it all the more offensive. Watch a game before you type.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Gallagher would easily be your best winger. Literally any team in the league who are contending would add Gallagher to their team. Especially at 5.25 mill. Allen has struggled for 4 games sure but stop acting like the habs haven't been absolutely atrocious. He would be by far your best goalie and he's on a sweetheart of a deal. Chiarot at 50% would a steal. While we also acquire 2 f***ing huge cap dumps. Aint no way habs are trading all of that for a prospect who's stock has only dropped since being drafted.

Now try without the blatant homerism.

 

[Zahra Starker]

NHL fans with bias last year: "Pulju is a bust, kid could only put up 0.4ppg playing with McDrai"

NHL fans with bias this year, Pulju putting up 2ppg: "Any scrub could put up 2ppg with McDrai"

You are funny. I can tell you have no hockey knowledge at all by your posts but the fact you speak with pure ignorance makes it all the more offensive. Watch a game before you type.

2ppg??? Hahahahaha for 3 games. Lollll. How about the other 190 games he's played and not done jack shit.

 

[Connor McConnor]

2ppg??? Hahahahaha for 3 games. Lollll. How about the other 190 games he's played and not done jack shit.

Again I need to repeat myself to the self proclaimed "architect" but watch a game before you open up your keyboard . If we could gamble on this site I would tell you right now Pulju will put up 65+ points this year and I said that projection before his hot start because I actually watch hockey.

 

[Ninety7]

2ppg??? Hahahahaha for 3 games. Lollll. How about the other 190 games he's played and not done jack shit.

Its pretty obvious that you don’t actually watch him play, so I don’t see why anyone should take your opinion seriously

Awful take.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You named 2 examples in like the past 7 years…and even then both examples are horrible since those guys were forced into starting roles due to injury before they were traded and both excelled, proving they were ready for a starter job.

Given that neither one had played more than 33 games in a season prior to being traded, I don't see how either one was forced into a "starting role", or proved they were definitely ready for a starting workload. Playing <33 games is generally what I expect from a backup, and there are always significant questions when a backup moves into a starting role. And doing decently well as a backup is generally how guys get a chance to be a starter.

There's also other comparable examples. Grubauer could have easily returned a 1st, but was packaged with Orpik's cap dump for a 2nd instead. Washington just gave up a 2nd to get Vanecek back, despite his numbers being pretty mediocre (aka worse than Georgiev's).

I still don't think any of these are that far off from what I suggested (1st + Yamamoto for G + 2nd). Giving up less than that means you're probably getting back something even riskier than a young backup with at least some demonstrated potential to be a starter.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Right. That Schneider example is horrible since Vancouver had already told Luongo that Schneider was the guy moving forward and only after failing to move Loungo did the Canucks entertain the moving of Schneider. Everyone knew Schneider was legitimate. Georgiev isn't anywhere near that. An example would more be Shesterkin. Limited games played but clearly a stud goalie. Igor has played around 50 games, Schneider was around 100 games with his last 60 games hovering at a 2.00 gaa and .930% Anyone claiming Schneider at the time of trade as a backup with potential is off their rocker. He was already the starter the season he was traded.

He never played more than 33 games in a season prior to being traded (or started more than 30). So, no, Schneider hadn't even remotely proven he could handle the starter workload. And, as you just explained, the Canucks tried to move Luongo so they could promote their backup G (Schneider) to the starting role. When that failed, they traded their backup G for the 9OA pick instead.

And I agree that Georgiev isn't exactly at the same caliber, but the return also isn't exactly the same caliber as 9OA. It's a mid/late 1st + reclamation project for a 25 year old potential starter + 2nd. Maybe it isn't a sure thing, but it's certainly within reason.

 

[Draiskull]

He never played more than 33 games in a season prior to being traded (or started more than 30). So, no, Schneider hadn't even remotely proven he could handle the starter workload. And, as you just explained, the Canucks tried to move Luongo so they could promote their backup G (Schneider) to the starting role. When that failed, they traded their backup G for the 9OA pick instead.

And I agree that Georgiev isn't exactly at the same caliber, but the return also isn't exactly the same caliber as 9OA. It's a mid/late 1st + reclamation project for a 25 year old potential starter + 2nd. Maybe it isn't a sure thing, but it's certainly within reason.

umm yeah, the Oilers will just roll the dice with Skinner if this is all they can get.. Difference between Skinner and Georgiev isnt a 1st round pick in a great draft + Yamamotto.

 

[TFHockey]

Georgiev is worth a 2nd, but that's it. I can't see anything he's done that would warrant more than a second round pick.

Why would the Oilers deal a 1st in a deep draft for him and a 2nd? Makes no sense. Skinner has shown great ability in the AHL, let's see if he can transition that to the NHL before talking about a lateral move in getting Georgiev.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

umm yeah, the Oilers will just roll the dice with Skinner if this is all they can get.. Difference between Skinner and Georgiev isnt a 1st round pick in a great draft + Yamamotto.

I'm just commenting on the value of a mid/late 1st + Yamamoto. I think that's somewhere around a backup goalie with potential or a bottom 4D + 2nd or 3rd to even it out (depending on who is involved). If that's not enough for the Oilers to pull the trigger, that's absolutely fair.

 

[OilersCoffeeArtBeer]

Dude, put puljujarvi with 2 average top 6 players and he'd have about 1 point rn. He's played 3 games this season bedsides McDavid and you're acting as if he's a 1st liner. He's still a 3rd liner.

Hmm your logic is flawed. Not everyone can play with McDavid. Puljujarvi would have less points with anyone less than mcdavid and draisaitl..But so would any other player in the NHL. Prime ovechkin would put up less points playing with average top 6 players than Connor McDavid. Don't try to downplay puljujarvi, the kid is a stud. You, alongside everyone else will be eating crow.

Mcdavid has had different wingers and not all of them produce.

To date...
Maroon, puljujarvi, yakupov(mcdavids first two months) Nuge, Draisaitl.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Georgiev is worth a 2nd, but that's it. I can't see anything he's done that would warrant more than a second round pick.

Why would the Oilers deal a 1st in a deep draft for him and a 2nd? Makes no sense. Skinner has shown great ability in the AHL, let's see if he can transition that to the NHL before talking about a lateral move in getting Georgiev.

I'm not saying that the Oilers would/should do it, just that that's what I think the package being offered (1st + Yamamoto) is worth. And, I would argue that two 2nds are pretty close in value to the mid/late 1st the Oilers would be giving up, with Yamamoto barely moving the needle for me. To get someone significantly better in return, the Oilers either need to add, or change out Yamamoto for someone with fewer big question marks.

 

[Draiskull]

I'm just commenting on the value of a mid/late 1st + Yamamoto. I think that's somewhere around a backup goalie with potential or a bottom 4D + 2nd or 3rd to even it out (depending on who is involved). If that's not enough for the Oilers to pull the trigger, that's absolutely fair.

Mid\late 1st + a player\prospect like Yama is generally the going price at the deadline for highest quality pending UFAs. Goalies also hardly ever fetch a 1st + and Oilers have no desperation to add one.
To add a bottom 4 D or backup goalie a 3rd round pick is sufficient.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I would say in order of needs:

Top 4 D
upgrade on Koskinen (who was quite good last night)

30 feet of crap

top 6 winger

30 more feet of crap

fourth liners

you are also outside your mind if you are asking for Evan Bouchard. Heeeeeeell no.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Georgiev has looked REALLY rough. He’s not the kind of goalie you give up a 1st + bottom 6 player with some potential for. Even if you’re getting a 2nd rounder back

This. Georgiev looked like butts last season and he got shelled his first outing this year. I have very little time for him especially at a premium price. Ditto Joonas Korpisalo.