Value of: Yamamoto + 2022 First

[The Moose is Loose]

The kid has 3 career NHL points playing away from McDavid and/or Draisaitl. I think it's very fair to question his NHL career, because he's done essentially nothing to show that he isn't just leeching points from two of the best scorers in the NHL.

That’s the Oilers top 6, which is where Yamamoto plays. The entire offense runs through them, it’s ridiculous to expect a complimentary player to generate his own offense given the position Yamamoto has been in.

How many points has Landeskog generated away from Mack/Rants over that same time span? Obviously it’s not an accurate depiction of Landy as a player

 

[Ragdoll]

absolutely no interest in yamamoto but i think the habs and oilers could be good partners .

gallagher ( 1 million retained)
chariot ( 50% retained )
allen ( 25 % retained )

in exchange for

bouchard
koskinen
turris ( oiler's option )

This is brutal… Bouchard is pretty damn close to untouchable, kid is playing impressive hockey. You’re asking the Oilers to trade him so they can add an aging forward that they absolutely do not need, a dman who would play on their bottom pairing and a backup goalie that has struggled this year and could upgrade for cheaper. Absolutely brutal proposal.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

The Oilers have gone through dozens of forwards over the last few years who they can only wish would leech some points from the top guys. There are players that have been tried with them that do not score at all.

It's great that he's a better leech than some of the pylons you've tried with McDrai, but that does absolutely nothing to allay my concerns about his inability to produce away from McDrai. The only thing that will convince me otherwise will be Yamamoto actually scoring away from McDrai. Until he does that, I will consider him to be a very risky acquisition for any of the other 31 teams and wouldn't give up much to get him.

 

[ManofSteel55]

It's great that he's a better leech than some of the pylons you've tried with McDrai, but that does absolutely nothing to allay my concerns about his inability to produce away from McDrai. The only thing that will convince me otherwise will be Yamamoto actually scoring away from McDrai. Until he does that, I will consider him to be a very risky acquisition for any of the other 31 teams and wouldn't give up much to get him.

I think the point was that absolutely nobody on the Oilers has really produced away from McDrai because up until this year (hopefully), we've had sub-NHL players in our bottom six.

I can see the concerns about him. He's small, and not producing offensively. I don't think anyone in this thread is demanding the moon for him value wise though. It's been a lot of discussion about players who would go for a 1st+. In this scenario, Yamamoto seems to be the +.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Wait, why would the Oilers give up on Yamamoto? He just turned 23.

I have a better idea!

Lets just keep him on the 4th line until he starts playing better.
You know.. do what most properly organizations do when their promising young players are slumping?

Sure... he's playing like a bad 2nd liner, but he would still be an elite 4th liner.
He's just slumping and has zero chemistry with Nuge.


We don't have to run literally EVERY young player out of town.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

That’s the Oilers top 6, which is where Yamamoto plays. The entire offense runs through them, it’s ridiculous to expect a complimentary player to generate his own offense given the position Yamamoto has been in.

How many points has Landeskog generated away from Mack/Rants over that same time span? Obviously it’s not an accurate depiction of Landy as a player

Over his first 82 career games, Landeskog scored 52 points without Mack or Rantanen (who hadn't been drafted yet). That's why there's no question about whether he can produce without them.

Yamamoto has never shown that he can score without McDrai, so there should definitely be questions about whether he can.

 

[LTIR]

So you think Yamamoto is worth a 2nd and you think Holloway + 1st is worth more then Drysdale.


Holy f*** talk about delusional.

Yes and Yes and possibly a Yes to the delusional part as well

 

[LTIR]

absolutely no interest in yamamoto but i think the habs and oilers could be good partners .

gallagher ( 1 million retained)
chariot ( 50% retained )
allen ( 25 % retained )

in exchange for

bouchard
koskinen
turris ( oiler's option )

The time to fetch Bouchard was last year when we still had Larsson and Bear at RD.. He isn't going anywhere now other than Oilers' top pairing.

 

[Draiskull]

Over his first 82 career games, Landeskog scored 52 points without Mack or Rantanen (who hadn't been drafted yet). That's why there's no question about whether he can produce without them.

Yamamoto has never shown that he can score without McDrai, so there should definitely be questions about whether he can.

So just because Yama hasnt played with anyone other tham McDrai means he cant produce without them? Maybe need a larger sample size here dont you think?
Not sure why Landeskog would be a comparable to a player like Yamamoto anyway.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I think the point was that absolutely nobody on the Oilers has really produced away from McDrai because up until this year (hopefully), we've had sub-NHL players in our bottom six.

I can see the concerns about him. He's small, and not producing offensively. I don't think anyone in this thread is demanding the moon for him value wise though. It's been a lot of discussion about players who would go for a 1st+. In this scenario, Yamamoto seems to be the +.

And my point is that being slightly better than sub-NHL players doesn't mean there shouldn't be any questions about whether you're a legit NHLer yourself. I'm not disagreeing that he's the + in this trade scenario, just questioning how much of a + he really is when his numbers seem to be a direct result of playing with McDrai and not necessarily an indication of his abilities.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

So just because Yama hasnt played with anyone other tham McDrai means he cant produce without them? Maybe need a larger sample size here dont you think?
Not sure why Landeskog would be a comparable to a player like Yamamoto anyway.

Absolutely, we need a larger sample size to get a more accurate picture of him. But, with what we know so far, his production away from McDrai (3 career points in 268 minutes of ice time) leaves a lot to be desired. If he can show that he can score without them, it'll do a lot for his value. But, until he does it, I don't think he has much value.

 

[majormajor]

absolutely no interest in yamamoto but i think the habs and oilers could be good partners .

gallagher ( 1 million retained)
chariot ( 50% retained )
allen ( 25 % retained )

in exchange for

bouchard
koskinen
turris ( oiler's option )

Gallagher, Chiarot, and Allen all help the Oilers in some way, so that's nice, but Bouchard is both a now and future piece for the Oilers. Maybe if you were asking for a purely futures piece like Holloway or Broberg.

I'd still have to think through whether Gallagher would be worth it even with a million retained. The Oilers might not be able to fit him in, and he might be more than a million overpaid.

 

[Connor McConnor]

I don't value Yamamoto as much more than a reclamation project at this point. Sure, he had a great 27 game stretch a couple years ago when he got to play with Drai, but the kid has only scored 3 career NHL points without Drai/McDavid on the ice in 108 games, which raises serious red flags for me.

With that said, I don't think the package is all that enticing for what you're trying to get. Maybe you could get a backup goalie or mediocre bottom 4D (with the other team adding a 2nd/3rd to even out the value), but probably not much more than that.

What sort of backup goalie has ever fetched a 1 and 3rd line quality young player? Agree that the package isn’t good enough for what OP asked for but you went on the opposite spectrum of reasonable

 

[GOilers88]

Over his first 82 career games, Landeskog scored 52 points without Mack or Rantanen (who hadn't been drafted yet). That's why there's no question about whether he can produce without them.

Yamamoto has never shown that he can score without McDrai, so there should definitely be questions about whether he can.

I understand what you're saying and I sort of agree. But any player from here on out pegging for a top six spot in Edmonton will play with one of McDrai. I don't know how anyone is going to prove themselves to be a top six player without playing in the top six. But in Edmonton anyone that plays in the top six is just pegged as a leech because they play with one of the two.

I don't entirely understand the logic, given that Yamo has only been put in a top six role since he made the Oilers and both McDavid and Draisaitl were already established at that point. Even if Yamo has a good year this year on the DRY line, I almost guarantee people will just say it's because he played with Draisaitl, so I don't know how that's supposed to work.

To be clear, I don't think he's a legit top six player, but we also had doubts about JP as a top six guy as well and he worked out the kinks.

 

[majormajor]

Absolutely, we need a larger sample size to get a more accurate picture of him. But, with what we know so far, his production away from McDrai (3 career points in 268 minutes of ice time) leaves a lot to be desired. If he can show that he can score without them, it'll do a lot for his value. But, until he does it, I don't think he has much value.

I think the real questions with Yamamoto is whether he can get back to his peak level with his style of play without getting constantly dinged up. Those are the concerns I'd have if I was acquiring him.

When he came into the league he wasn't a passenger on Draisaitl's line, he was stirring the drink on that unit and feeding the scorers pucks constantly. His high end is not a concern for me, it's more about whether he can play his style without getting dinged up.

He might be more of a Matt Calvert in the long run - another bat demon speedy forechecker with skill, who didn't have the body to play heavy minutes with his playstyle.

 

[ManofSteel55]

And my point is that being slightly better than sub-NHL players doesn't mean there shouldn't be any questions about whether you're a legit NHLer yourself. I'm not disagreeing that he's the + in this trade scenario, just questioning how much of a + he really is when his numbers seem to be a direct result of playing with McDrai and not necessarily an indication of his abilities.

Well if all you gauge a player on is his stat line I can see where you are coming from. For the record, you have said that, what, 3 points have come playing away from McDavid and Draisaitl? You should then at least quantify that with how many minutes were played without either of those guys. It's not like he spent months playing away from them and only mustered 3 points. You're portraying it as a negative, when really, at worst, its a question mark. You can't prove you are a top six winger in Edmonton without playing significant minutes with one of McDavid or Draisaitl.

 

[Draiskull]

Absolutely, we need a larger sample size to get a more accurate picture of him. But, with what we know so far, his production away from McDrai (3 career points in 268 minutes of ice time) leaves a lot to be desired. If he can show that he can score without them, it'll do a lot for his value. But, until he does it, I don't think he has much value.

Yeh, I am sure that is not how pro scouting works and values are determined. It doesnt take much for things to start clicking for a young player and there is more to a player than stats watching. It is understandable though that this is your valuation of a player you dont really see much of. I wouldnt value depth players like Jost or Compher either unless the stat line looks sexy.

To say Yama doesnt have a positive value says how much you follow the player. He makes minimal salary and plays in the middle 6. Tenacious as hell and good on the PK. Oilers fans are hating on him because he isnt clicking on the 2nd line.. He is more than fine as 3RW and great 4RW for what he brings to the team. Him struggling is going to help Oilers get past the cap crunch next season so not really worried.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

What sort of backup goalie has ever fetched a 1 and 3rd line quality young player? Agree that the package isn’t good enough for what OP asked for but you went on the opposite spectrum of reasonable

To be clear, I meant a backup from another team who could be a starter, not someone to be your new backup.

But, since you asked, the Avs gave up a 1st + 2nd for Varlamov, who had only played 59 career games and was Washington's backup at the time.

Corey Schneider, the backup in Vancouver at the time, returned the 9 OA pick.

Is 1st + Yamamoto for something like Georgiev + 2nd that unreasonable?

 

[LTIR]

To be clear, I meant a backup from another team who could be a starter, not someone to be your new backup.

But, since you asked, the Avs gave up a 1st + 2nd for Varlamov, who had only played 59 career games and was Washington's backup at the time.

Corey Schneider, the backup in Vancouver at the time, returned the 9 OA pick.

Is 1st + Yamamoto for something like Georgiev + 2nd that unreasonable?

1st+Jost for Georgiev + 2nd

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Well if all you gauge a player on is his stat line I can see where you are coming from. For the record, you have said that, what, 3 points have come playing away from McDavid and Draisaitl? You should then at least quantify that with how many minutes were played without either of those guys. It's not like he spent months playing away from them and only mustered 3 points. You're portraying it as a negative, when really, at worst, its a question mark. You can't prove you are a top six winger in Edmonton without playing significant minutes with one of McDavid or Draisaitl.

If you think I'm saying it's a negative, then there's a miscommunication here. I'm saying that there are significant questions about him, and those questions make it hard to value him very highly as an acquiring GM.

He's also played 268 career minutes away from McDrai (0.62 P/60), compared to 1455 with at least one of them (2.02 P/60). That doesn't help answer any of my questions about whether he's just a product of the big guys, or if he's something worth trying to acquire.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Over his first 82 career games, Landeskog scored 52 points without Mack or Rantanen (who hadn't been drafted yet). That's why there's no question about whether he can produce without them.

Yamamoto has never shown that he can score without McDrai, so there should definitely be questions about whether he can.

But why does he need to produce without them?

He plays with 1 of them sometimes, and if he can produce in that scenario that's great for the Oilers. They don't need him to be an offense driving 1st line winger, but a complimentary winger who is puck hound that is quick on the forecheck and force the other team to cough it up to a more dangerous player like Draisaitl

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

But why does he need to produce without them?

Because the whole premise of this thread is that he's being traded elsewhere, and the last time I checked, McDrai doesn't play anywhere but Edmonton. Therefore, whether or not he can score without them seems significantly more relevant to his value in a trade than what he can do with them.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Because the whole premise of this thread is that he's being traded elsewhere, and the last time I checked, McDrai doesn't play anywhere but Edmonton. Therefore, whether or not he can score without them seems significantly more relevant to his value in a trade than what he can do with them.

I guess my point is it’s pretty ridiculous to suggest someone who scored nearly PPG as a rookie isn’t NHL caliber.

Is he boosted by playing with great players? Absolutely. Is he an offense driver? No, we haven’t seen that yet. Does he have value, as a complimentary top 6 winger who has proven to succeed with high end talent? Yes. There is a place for Yamamoto in the NHL and on a lot of teams.

I wouldn’t say he is extremely valuable, but he’d go higher in a redraft than the 22nd spot he was picked at. There were people on this site just 1 summer ago saying they wouldn’t even give up a 2nd for Puljujarvi, a lot can change quickly for young players.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

1st+Jost for Georgiev + 2nd

If our best options in net were Koskinen and Smith, I'd seriously consider it, at the very least. I certainly don't consider it unreasonable, if that's what you're suggesting.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

If our best options in net were Koskinen and Smith, I'd seriously consider it, at the very least. I certainly don't consider it unreasonable, if that's what you're suggesting.

Georgiev has looked REALLY rough. He’s not the kind of goalie you give up a 1st + bottom 6 player with some potential for. Even if you’re getting a 2nd rounder back