Confirmed Signing with Link: [WSH] F Alex Ovechkin re-signs with the Capitals (5 years, $9.5M AAV)

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Ovechkin at 9.5 million is a much better value for a win now team than either Trouba at 8 million or Kreider at 6.5, yet somehow those don't stop New York from trying to become contenders.

I hate both those contracts. So that's a weird argument lol.

What'd you think bc the caps fanbase blindly loves this contract despite the clear and obvious downside that every fanbase blindly loves their teams contracts too?

I literally said it's not a crippling contract. So how do you get "they can't be contenders" out of that? Also you are aware of the difference bt the two teams going forward right? Like all the top picks who are going into their 1, 2 or 3 season for the nyr?

Really not a well thought out comment there

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

2 points.

1. Ovechkin negotiates his own contracts. Its not what he does for a living. There is just no way that he does a two year contract and then a series of one year contracts. No chance. No way.

2. Ovechkin has shown no sign of drop off in his ability. In the last normal season(that was shortened unexpectedly) he scored 48 goals in 68 games. You would choose to predict what his skill erosion would look like? As the contracts reaches the last couple of years Ovechkin will be closing in the the all time goals record. Do you have any clue how much money Ovechkin is going to be making for the team and for the league as that happens??

Ovechkin signed a 13 year contract that at the time was blasted for being too much money for a player whose style of play will never allow him to perform up to his end of the contract. In fact he significantly overperformed that contract. Darnell Freaking Nurse just signed a contract for Ov money. I am not going to suggest that Ovechkin isn't going to perform up to his % of the salary cap at the end of his deal. I dare you to do it(please be specific). For certain he is not getting paid anything like what he is worth based on the money he makes for his bosses.

Point one. Seems like a really arbitrary reason. He could definitely have done two years and then another two without changing much but the salary language.

Point two. Literally not true. You proved he still scored goals. Everyone knows he still scores goals. Everyone also knows there's more a player has to be able to do to be worth 9.5. People are also aware of what happens as a person goes into their mid -late 30s. Its been happening to his athleticism the last few seasons and there's been a decline in his production already. He still scores at a great rate and yet he still did see a dip.. There's a reason father time is undefeated. Butbutbut he still scored at almost a ppg clip!

Yes. We're aware. If you look at the last two seasons however you miiiight notice a few things on the ice, in games played and on the score sheet. Combine his age with an 82 game schedule and the declines we've already seen annnnd....

All that said...I literally said maybe ovie miraculously doesn't decline further than he has. But people banking on that for 5 years are banking on basically a two or three time ever occurrence. Then they go on about how he still scored goals as if what you did last year guarantees what you do at 38 or 39 years old lol. The way some of you keep responding its like you think a player either falls off a cliff immediately or doesn't decline at all.

You can overpay a guy or two and still compete. I never said otherwise

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

There is no way Ovechkin would’ve accepted to sign only for 2 years. If they didn’t give him the term, someone else would’ve given it to him or he would’ve gone back to Russia to finish his career.

It would’ve been an embarrassment of monumental proportions if the Capitals decided to be cheap on $ or term and not sign him to this deal. They would’ve been ridiculed for the rest of eternity.

The Capitals can still win, everyone is sleeping on them now but they still finish near the top of the standings. This contract will not be an obstacle to go get another Cup.

There’s a lot of room to improve. The Caps have $11M tied up in Jensen, Kempny, Schultz and Hagelin. These 4 guys combined bring less to the table than Ovechkin alone

You missed the context of why I made that response and told me a bunch of stuff that doesn't really address what I said.

Also part of my comment is about how ovie should have taken 2 years to help the team. He'd still be getting overpaid a little and if he doesn't decline further he could just re-up. He didn't HAVE to do 2 years but he absolutely could have.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Did someone just reference David Clarkson in reference to an Ovi contract?

Great deal for a guy who has put the Capitals franchise on the map. In those last couple years you are concerned about, just sit in your seat and look up at the banner he brought you guys. That should bring you some joy. Consider those years a thank you for that.

He didn't say the ovie deal is the Clarkson deal. He made a valid point about idiot gms and the history of overpaying guys in FA in the NHL

 

[txpd]

Point one. Seems like a really arbitrary reason. He could definitely have done two years and then another two without changing much but the salary language.

Point two. Literally not true. You proved he still scored goals. Everyone knows he still scores goals. Everyone also knows there's more a player has to be able to do to be worth 9.5. People are also aware of what happens as a person goes into their mid -late 30s. Its been happening to his athleticism the last few seasons and there's been a decline in his production already. He still scores at a great rate and yet he still did see a dip.. There's a reason father time is undefeated. Butbutbut he still scored at almost a ppg clip!

Yes. We're aware. If you look at the last two seasons however you miiiight notice a few things on the ice, in games played and on the score sheet. Combine his age with an 82 game schedule and the declines we've already seen annnnd....

All that said...I literally said maybe ovie miraculously doesn't decline further than he has. But people banking on that for 5 years are banking on basically a two or three time ever occurrence. Then they go on about how he still scored goals as if what you did last year guarantees what you do at 38 or 39 years old lol. The way some of you keep responding its like you think a player either falls off a cliff immediately or doesn't decline at all.

You can overpay a guy or two and still compete. I never said otherwise

Ok...its simple. Ovechkin does his own contracts. He wants to play til 40 and doesnt want to negotiate a new contract every or so. So he had no interest in a 2 year contract. Your choice is let him walk or do the one contract. Yes. He could play for the league minimum if he wanted to and he could sign one year contracts only. Thats not what he wants to do.

 

[chizzler]

Two years at that term would’ve been good for everyone. Yikes at the 5 year.

 

[JustAnotherHockeyFan]

I hate both those contracts. So that's a weird argument lol.

What'd you think bc the caps fanbase blindly loves this contract despite the clear and obvious downside that every fanbase blindly loves their teams contracts too?

I literally said it's not a crippling contract. So how do you get "they can't be contenders" out of that? Also you are aware of the difference bt the two teams going forward right? Like all the top picks who are going into their 1, 2 or 3 season for the nyr?

Really not a well thought out comment there

There's no downside beyond an old team having a swan song like every old team does. A few million saved here and there doesn't change that. He's outplayed his contract almost every year year he's been in the NHL, some years very substantially. If you factor in generates more than his contract worth of revenue alone. If Ovechkin should play for basically free then shouldn't every player play for basically free? Does Ovechkin get to pick who the money he leaves on the table goes to? I'm sure MacKinnon is thrilled that all the money he's leaving on the table is going to Erik Johnson and JT Compher and all the cup contending influence they bring along.

As a Rangers fan you wouldn't understand but sometimes you need to take care of your stars instead of buying them out and tossing them into the trash after they devote their entire career to your team so you can make le epic roster salary cap moves. Especially if they're still effective. Would it be nice to have Ovechkin make far less than he's worth now so they could sign more players? Sure, just like it would be nice for any team if all their players played for less than they're worth. If Panarin came to New York for 5 million a year because the Big Apple was his childhood dream would you be happy? Probably. Do you fault him for not doing that? Doubt it.

 

[abo9]

Point one. Seems like a really arbitrary reason. He could definitely have done two years and then another two without changing much but the salary language.

Point two. Literally not true. You proved he still scored goals. Everyone knows he still scores goals. Everyone also knows there's more a player has to be able to do to be worth 9.5. People are also aware of what happens as a person goes into their mid -late 30s. Its been happening to his athleticism the last few seasons and there's been a decline in his production already. He still scores at a great rate and yet he still did see a dip.. There's a reason father time is undefeated. Butbutbut he still scored at almost a ppg clip!

Yes. We're aware. If you look at the last two seasons however you miiiight notice a few things on the ice, in games played and on the score sheet. Combine his age with an 82 game schedule and the declines we've already seen annnnd....

All that said...I literally said maybe ovie miraculously doesn't decline further than he has. But people banking on that for 5 years are banking on basically a two or three time ever occurrence. Then they go on about how he still scored goals as if what you did last year guarantees what you do at 38 or 39 years old lol. The way some of you keep responding its like you think a player either falls off a cliff immediately or doesn't decline at all.

You can overpay a guy or two and still compete. I never said otherwise

Have not followed the conversation completely so apologies in advance if my remark doesn't make sense in context.

With regards to his performances, I believe people are quick to jump on this season as the "new normal" (note that he was still scoring at a 43 goals pace). How much money do other 40 goal scorers make in the league?

And while he's probably going to decline further, I get the sense that Ovechkin is a really proud guy. I think we can argue that he's had 2 particularly difficult spots in his career (2010-2012 and 2016), and both times he rebounded spectacularly. It would not surprised me if he took his off season training up a notch this Summer, to be worthy of the contract.

But as most say... at this point of his career he could probably score 10 goals per year and still be worth the 9.5M monetarily...

 

[The CyNick]

He didn't say the ovie deal is the Clarkson deal. He made a valid point about idiot gms and the history of overpaying guys in FA in the NHL

So you guys are putting this Ovi deal in the Clarkson category? Just trying to get where you guys are coming from.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

So you guys are putting this Ovi deal in the Clarkson category?

I said the opposite. He made a point about idiot gms overpaying people. It's not saying the Clarkson deal is the same category. There are so many other factors involved in both those deals. They have something in common, sure. That doesn't mean they're very similar

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

There's no downside.

There is. I said before it's reasonable to overlook it but it is there

 

[Maple Leaf]

He will be effective as jagr

 

[The CyNick]

I said the opposite. He made a point about idiot gms overpaying people. It's not saying the Clarkson deal is the same category. There are so many other factors involved in both those deals. They have something in common, sure. That doesn't mean they're very similar

I'm trying to figure out what the deals have in common. Clarkson was a journeyman type player and Ovechkin is a shoe in for the HOF who is the greatest goal scorer arguably ever. I just don't see how they are similar.

 

[JustAnotherHockeyFan]

There is. I said before it's reasonable to overlook it but it is there

Ok, let me rephrase that. There's downside congruent with the downside of virtually all market value UFA star player contracts. Except he also brings more value to his organization outside of on the ice performance than any player in the league aside from maybe 87 and 97

 

[Jerkbait]

Ok, let me rephrase that. There's downside congruent with the downside of virtually all market value UFA star player contracts. Except he also brings more value to his organization outside of on the ice performance than any player in the league aside from maybe 87 and 97

Yes. While this is true its still a restricting contract that wash will have to navigate if they wish still to be true contenders. Iam all for protecting the stars and ovie may get a bye here but it will be a hindrance on the caps. Malkin is due in Pitt and they will most likey follow the same route unfortunately

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I'm trying to figure out what the deals have in common. Clarkson was a journeyman type player and Ovechkin is a shoe in for the HOF who is the greatest goal scorer arguably ever. I just don't see how they are similar.

Based on likely production, one got overpaid on what is almost certainly the downside of his career for several seasons

So did the other.

It's literally the crux of this entire convo so I feel like you're pretending not to know what the similarity is just to be difficult

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Ok, let me rephrase that. There's downside congruent with the downside of virtually all market value UFA star player contracts. Except he also brings more value to his organization outside of on the ice performance than any player in the league aside from maybe 87 and 97

Thats why I said it's reasonable to overlook the downside in this case

 

[The CyNick]

Based on likely production, one got overpaid on what is almost certainly the downside of his career for several seasons

So did the other.

It's literally the crux of this entire convo so I feel like you're pretending not to know what the similarity is just to be difficult

Ovechkin was on a 44 goal pace last season and is the active goals leader in the league. Yes, players decline over time. But seems like an odd player to compare a legit GOAT contender to, when that player is still performing at a very high level.

For a recap, Clarkson ended up struggling with a series of injuries that prevented him from getting to the peaks he reached in the couple years prior to his big contract. He wound up never fully recovering from those injuries and couldn't get back into NHL lineups consistently. Ovi on the other hand has been healthy most of his career, and doesn't play a style that would be likely result in career ending injuries. So again, I just don't see the Clarkson-Ovechkin parallels.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Ovechkin was on a 44 goal pace .

Lemme just quote a basic stat everyone has already discussed ad nauseum and ignore the obvious.

Did you consider the numbers 37-41? The AGE the guys gonna be? No shit he scored goals at a PACE in a short season. Its gonna be 82 game seasons as an older and older and older man.

You were wrong, you ignored the obvious similarity, I don't need another two paragraphs prefaced with a basic stat we all already know and a bunch of useless info about clarkson.

People really want to predict absolutely no drop off for a guy who's going to be a 37-41 year old man as if that's at all rational LOL

Why not just say he'll be scoring at a 44 goal pace until he's 50 then? Why stop at 39, 40 and 41? Why not give him 8 years then? According to a bunch of you the caps were stupid to only give him five years!

And I'd be thrilled to see an elite ovie scoring 44 every season but f***s sake can we be even remotely reasonable about the likely drop-off to the 30g, 60 pt territory (which is still astounding for his age but definitely isn't 9.5 m aav production)

 

[JustAnotherHockeyFan]

Lemme just quote a basic stat everyone has already discussed ad nauseum and ignore the obvious.

Did you consider the numbers 37-41? The AGE the guys gonna be? No shit he scored goals at a PACE in a short season. Its gonna be 82 game seasons as an older and older and older man.

You were wrong, you ignored the obvious similarity, I don't need another two paragraphs prefaced with a basic stat we all already know and a bunch of useless info about clarkson.

People really want to predict absolutely no drop off for a guy who's going to be a 37-41 year old man as if that's at all rational LOL

Why not just say he'll be scoring at a 44 goal pace until he's 50 then? Why stop at 39, 40 and 41? Why not give him 8 years then? According to a bunch of you the caps were stupid to only give him five years!

And I'd be thrilled to see an elite ovie scoring 44 every season but f***s sake can we be even remotely reasonable about the likely drop-off to the 30g, 60 pt territory (which is still astounding for his age but definitely isn't 9.5 m aav production)

Did you or anyone else expect him to keep stacking Richards in his 30s? Something no one else has been able to do in history?

Given his track record it's more reasonable and fair to assume he'll hold up and keep compiling the way Jagr and Selanne did until proven to the contrary. He's earned as much on pure performance alone

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Given his track record it's more reasonable and fair to assume he'll hold up and keep compiling the way Jagr and Selanne did until proven to the contrary. He's earned as much on pure performance alone

Given the entire history of hockey and professional sports the most reasonable assumption is that there will be a noticeable drop-off in years 3-5.

I understand being hopeful. Folks are being delusional

 

[McFlash97]

Its a desperate attempt at Gretzkys record. OV will fall short and this thing will look bad in years 4 and 5

my prediction:

this season: 41 goals - being generous
Next season: 35 goals
3 years from now: 25 goals
4 years from now: ~20 goals and injuries start to take effect
5 years from now: 15 goals tops and slowest player in the league and a major liability as OV has become a 1 dimensional player.

Total: 866

almost 30 goals shy

OV would need to sign a 2 year geriatric contract to try to achieve the impossible. Except OV will decline.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

Its a desperate attempt at Gretzkys record. OV will fall short and this thing will look bad in years 4 and 5

Depends on how long he can keep up his intimidating shot.

As long as he can be a real threat on the PP, it will keep him from being a disaster contract. Otherwise, they will not be able to move him even if they want to.

 

[benedictTavares]

Why even talk about Gretzky's record if he does break it all anyone will talk about was how he was nowhere near Gretzky.

 

[The CyNick]

Lemme just quote a basic stat everyone has already discussed ad nauseum and ignore the obvious.

Did you consider the numbers 37-41? The AGE the guys gonna be? No shit he scored goals at a PACE in a short season. Its gonna be 82 game seasons as an older and older and older man.

You were wrong, you ignored the obvious similarity, I don't need another two paragraphs prefaced with a basic stat we all already know and a bunch of useless info about clarkson.

People really want to predict absolutely no drop off for a guy who's going to be a 37-41 year old man as if that's at all rational LOL

Why not just say he'll be scoring at a 44 goal pace until he's 50 then? Why stop at 39, 40 and 41? Why not give him 8 years then? According to a bunch of you the caps were stupid to only give him five years!

And I'd be thrilled to see an elite ovie scoring 44 every season but f***s sake can we be even remotely reasonable about the likely drop-off to the 30g, 60 pt territory (which is still astounding for his age but definitely isn't 9.5 m aav production)

This gets more and more confusing.

Are you saying Clarkson was 37-41 years of age during the duration of his contract? I can confirm he was not, so yet another reason this Clarkson-Ovi comparison is faulty.

The so called useless information about Clarkson explains why his deal turned out poorly and how it doesn't apply to Ovi, who likely won't have multiple injuries that will shorten his career.

I have no idea what his output will be at the end of this deal, but almost every hockey contact is based on the players latest numbers, not what they will be at the end of the deal. Ovi is a 44 goal scorer, so he was paid accordingly. I highly doubt he will end up like Clarkson being unable to crack an NHL lineup due to injury at any point in this contract. But feel free to say I told ya so of he does get a series of injuries that end his career.