Wow the playoffs are intense. Can we compete

[Stephen]

You outlined some issues, but basically brushed them all off as irrelevant and secondary, and didn't seem to understand how misusing our best players hurt the team, not just individual numbers. Representing it as just fan desires for shiny numbers is completely missing the point.

We had those finishes because of our players, not because of Babcock. Which should be quite obvious, considering we finished last with Babcock, and then improved significantly when great players were added.

Dekes, you’ve made a impassioned appeal to the idea that there were many Babcock problems without naming anything that falls outside of what’s already been discussed.

Namely that they were unpopular player utilization in the form of balanced ice time distribution, line combinations, maybe suboptimal offensive and big game blunders. Other than that, OCD back to back goalie starts, RHD LHD pairings, style of play, difficult personality, stubborn use of tactics like the stretch pass and that’s about it.

Performance wise, he gave us about a range of 95-105 points per year and first round exits. Last year we were in a 96 point range with a Babcock-Keefe split and lost in a preliminary round. This year we are at a 112 point pace in a different format.

I’m not a Babcock fan and I think we are in better hands that could produce more success in the playoffs and we all certainly like seeing Matthews and Marner in top 5 scoring and winning Rockets more than not, but I don’t see the Babcock era as a write off. More like a step one that the team grew out of. So there’s no real reason to poo poo it too much in hindsight.

 

[Stinger8]

Yes we can compete and we will rise to the level of play needed to win this round

I think few will disagree BUT can we compete at the physical level in the other US based series, IE Bruins/Capitals or Lightening/Panthers. I am coming around to we can, I think we make the final four.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I like how this is shaping up.

TBL versus Florida has been a tough, physical series and the teams have been beating each other up. One of those teams will be eliminated (Florida probably ?) so that's one less good team we will have to face if/when we get past the first two divisional playoff rounds.

Boston versus Washington - Same situation as mentioned above. One of those teams will get eliminated.

VGK versus Minnesota - Pretty much the same in this series. One of those good teams will get eliminated.

Shaping up to be a potentially a pretty good situation for us should we get through our divisional opponents.

Just win baby win!

GLG

 

[Mickey Marner]

Let's worry about getting to the semis first. Tackle the teams infront of us and worry about the rest later.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

That Tampa vs. Florida game was pretty crazy yesterday. The winner of this series if they continue to play like that, if they go seven games, and then play that way again in round 2, another long series, and they are going to be beat up. Go ahead, beat the hell out of each other.

Agreed. I just made the same point about the TBL/Florida series along with other round #1 match-ups, and then I read your post. I like how this is shaping up and had this in mind before the season even started.

 

[Auston 316]

Let's worry about getting to the semis first. Tackle the teams infront of us and worry about the rest later.

Yes I’m sure the players will do so. The rest of us can discuss potential playoff matchups without it affecting the Leafs players I’m sure.

 

[slozo]

(sorry to interrupt your Babcock discussion on this thread)

I think the Leafs will be ready for the playoffs - as will the Habs I'm sure.

It's kind of funny in terms of buildup, having the two oldest, biggest and most passionate teams and fanbases have to start the latest in the playoffs . . . I think there will be an undeniable amount of pent up energy you will see in the first few shifts. Could be a few massive hits and or penalties, could be some big screw ups defensively (which is what tends to happen when emotions get ramped up too high).

Can't wait!

 

[Leafsfan74]

Thankfully Kadri isn't here to help with this intensity. Another playoff suspension appears imminent.

Dubas did well in that trade.

 

[Stephen]

Babcock had Datsyuk and Zetterberg 10 years and won only one cup with them (when they still had Lidstrom, Chelios, Rafalski, . During that cup run Dats and Zetts both played 22 minutes per game. He inherited them at ages 27 and 25 and had nothing to do with their development.

Why would leafs fans accept him playing matthews and marner 17 minutes a night?

I wouldn’t really mind “only one cup” in any ten year window. Seems like an acceptable outcome.

 

[saltming]

Thankfully Kadri isn't here to help with this intensity. Another playoff suspension appears imminent.

Dubas did well in that trade.

I'm interested to see how the NHL deals with this one. Specifically I'm looking for the Toronto bias. If it's a fine or one or two games that would be very telling on the NHL.
That hit last night looked pretty bad and like he was head hunting

 

[ToneDog]

I'm interested to see how the NHL deals with this one. Specifically I'm looking for the Toronto bias. If it's a fine or one or two games that would be very telling on the NHL.
That hit last night looked pretty bad and like he was head hunting

This was a predatory hit on a defenceless player by a repeat offender. 10x worse than the hit on Debrusk. Anything less than an indefinte suspension proves the NHL is full of shite.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Performance wise, he gave us about a range of 95-105 points per year and first round exits. Last year we were in a 96 point range with a Babcock-Keefe split and lost in a preliminary round. This year we are at a 112 point pace in a different format.

I’m not a Babcock fan and I think we are in better hands that could produce more success in the playoffs and we all certainly like seeing Matthews and Marner in top 5 scoring and winning Rockets more than not, but I don’t see the Babcock era as a write off. More like a step one that the team grew out of. So there’s no real reason to poo poo it too much in hindsight.

Interesting. Considering that our personnal is much better now, our performance under Babcock doesn't look bad at all. Especially when you consider he wasn't behind the bench the one time we lost in the playoffs against a team we were favoured to beat.

I wouldn’t really mind “only one cup” in any ten year window. Seems like an acceptable outcome.

That's a point. If one cup in ten years was a failure for Detroit, I wonder how many are we supposed to win? We're pretty stacked with talent as well IMO.

 

[saltming]

This was a predatory hit on a defenceless player by a repeat offender. 10x worse than the hit on Debrusk. Anything less than an indefinte suspension proves the NHL is full of shite.

Agreed. The Debrusk suspension was so far over the top it showed how bad the NHL didn't want us to win that series

 

[Leafsfan74]

I'm interested to see how the NHL deals with this one. Specifically I'm looking for the Toronto bias. If it's a fine or one or two games that would be very telling on the NHL.
That hit last night looked pretty bad and like he was head hunting

One game for that hit as a repeat offender while he received many more in Toronto for what was a retaliation for a hit against Marleau (and some clear non-calls) would say something. I don't know if it would be a bias against T.O or favouritism towards the Bruins though...

 

[saltming]

Interesting. Considering that our personnal is much better now, our performance under Babcock doesn't look bad at all. Especially when you consider he wasn't behind the bench the one time we lost in the playoffs against a team we were favoured to beat.



That's a point. If one cup in ten years was a failure for Detroit, I wonder how many are we supposed to win? We're pretty stacked with talent as well IMO.

I think the expectations of some fans border on unrealistic, but that's to be expected. Personally I want them to win the cup every year, maybe even twice a year but realistically I know it's one of the hardest pro championships to win and if it's one per decade, sign me up all day every day for that outcome

 

[saltming]

One gamee for that hit as a repeat offender while he received many more in Toronto for what was a retaliation for a hit against Marleau (and some clear non-calls) would say something. I don't know if it would be a bias against T.O or favouritism towards the Bruins though...

Most likely both

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think the expectations of some fans border on unrealistic, but that's to be expected. Personally I want them to win the cup every year, maybe even twice a year but realistically I know it's one of the hardest pro championships to win and if it's one per decade, sign me up all day every day for that outcome

Once Matthews and Marner started playing for us, I thought the chances of us winning multiple cups with this core were good. I wasn't the only one either, so many were comparing us to Chicago who won a bunch. Now a few years of 1st round exist later and instead of Chicago, WSH is the popular comparable so seems like most people would indeed be thrilled with one.

 

[Sniper99]

This was a predatory hit on a defenceless player by a repeat offender. 10x worse than the hit on Debrusk. Anything less than an indefinte suspension proves the NHL is full of shite.

Depends on where you look the NHL IS full of shite, I mean, they keep continuing to believe hockey can survive in Glendale

 

[Raym11]

Babcock had Datsyuk and Zetterberg 10 years and won only one cup with them (when they still had Lidstrom, Chelios, Rafalski, . During that cup run Dats and Zetts both played 22 minutes per game. He inherited them at ages 27 and 25 and had nothing to do with their development.

Why would leafs fans accept him playing matthews and marner 17 minutes a night?

Matthews couldn't play much more at the time, His endurance was terrible in the first 3 years. I spent that entire time period complaining about it because he visually played exhausted every 3rd period in crunch time

 

[saltming]

Once Matthews and Marner started playing for us, I thought the chances of us winning multiple cups with this core were good. I wasn't the only one either, so many were comparing us to Chicago who won a bunch. Now a few years of 1st round exist later and instead of Chicago, WSH is the popular comparable so seems like most people would indeed be thrilled with one.

I don't think a couple cups is out of the question. It took Chicago a few years to get into that dominant stage. I mean 2 years for Keith in the A then like 4 or 5 years before he even saw the playoffs, also let's look at Tampa Bay too. How much money I lost on them over the years and just now they come to it with Stamkos in the twilight of his career.
2 cups in the Matthews era would be just amazing and I think possible

 

[Mess]

I wouldn’t really mind “only one cup” in any ten year window. Seems like an acceptable outcome.

Particularly for those of use that witnessed the last Cup in 1967 and are living through a 54 year drought and counting without even a SCF appearance.

I think Leafs fans would be in heaven if we had 1 X Stanley Cup win each decade minimum.

The 1970's would have been a Darryl Sittler lead team Stanley Cup, and the 1980's Wendel Clark Cup, and the 1990's the Dougie Gilmour Cup, then 2000's the Mats Sundin lead team, and 2010 the Kessel years, and now the Matthews decade.

Life as a lifelong Leaf fan would have been soooooo much better. Think of all those memories had that been the case.

 

[Sniper99]

Thankfully Kadri isn't here to help with this intensity. Another playoff suspension appears imminent.

Dubas did well in that trade.

I liked that trade, people like to shit on Kerfoot sometime, Kerfoot is a grinder like Kadri, minus the dumbshit Kadri does what seems like Every playoff.

 

[Raym11]

I liked that trade, people like to shit on Kerfoot sometime, Kerfoot is a grinder like Kadri, minus the dumbshit Kadri does what seems like Every playoff.

The trade was only bad because Barrie sucked, Kerfoot fits well though because hes reliable and fast, two things Kadri wasnt.

So with Barrie being gone, Kerfoot still fits the team better now. Simmonds essentially does any of the stuff we need Kadri to do physically and then some while requiring way less money and ice time

 

[Sniper99]

The trade was only bad because Barrie sucked, Kerfoot fits well though because hes reliable and fast, two things Kadri wasnt.

So with Barrie being gone, Kerfoot still fits the team better now. Simmonds essentially does any of the stuff we need Kadri to do physically and then some while requiring way less money and ice time

Wish we held on to Barrie, the transition from Babcock coaching style to Keefe's probably messed with him. A full season with Matthews etc would have been great I think, Brodie has been pretty good though.

 

[Raym11]

Brodie has been way better, but our PP still lacks a Dman who can actually run it, hopefully Sandin