Proposal: Would you trade Stutzle for Matthews?

[GCK]

Matthews is the better even strength point producer even in his off year vs Stutzle's peak.

Hes the better goal scorer, PP or ES.

And hes miles better defensively.

Its not as close as people would make you believe. Stutzle is fantastic - and maybe he gets to a top 5 calibre player one day, but hes not there.

Again completely false.

Stutzle has more non PP points this year than any of AM’s seasons except last year.

Matthews is currently a better goal scorer than Stutzle, Stutzle is a better playmaker and play driver. Stutzle is also a better penalty killer.

Comparing defensive play, Matthews has the edge but Stutzle is far superior defensively than Matthews was at the same age.

 

[Jerkbait]

Ya Matthews makes 10.7 million more NOW

and as to the bolded, yes he will get paid 8.35 for 8 years.

Cost is irrelevant when you are talking about a top 3/4/5 player . Cost is irrelevant when in win right now mode ...the leafs like any team in that spot want the best player that will give them the best chance to win ...and its AM34 over time. Yes potentially the leafs could land a second player with the leftover cash but there is zero guarantee of that working out or even helping. For cash strapped teams it could.make more a tad.more sense but in Toronto absolutely not ...you don't like the leafs like having the games best goal scorer ( potentially) ? A hart mvp? Rocket? Lol ...and again in case you forgot there is absolutely nothing that suggest tim will ever be a hart or rocket contender

 

[Sens9292]

Summer of Dorion, baby! Keep that "next year is the year" energy going, I love to see it.

Win a round, that’s all you need to focus on. I know it has been a while. Us Sens fan can let you know how fun it is to see our team make a legit run.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Win a round, that’s all you need to focus on. I know it has been a while. Us Sens fan can let you know how fun it is to see our team make a legit run.

Make the playoffs, I know it's been a while

Again completely false.

Stutzle has more non PP points this year than any of AM’s seasons except last year.

Matthews is currently a better goal scorer than Stutzle, Stutzle is a better playmaker and play driver. Stutzle is also a better penalty killer.

Comparing defensive play, Matthews has the edge but Stutzle is far superior defensively than Matthews was at the same age.

If you're really using 4 total PK points in his career to make a point you're off base.

Matthews 1 for 1 for Stutzle is a no brainer trade. Matthews' "terrible" year is still even with Stutzle's best

 

[Hockeypete49]

no

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Make the playoffs, I know it's been a while

Last time we spanked the crap out of you.

I guess you still aren't over that for some reason?

 

[Sun God Nika]

Fun fact this year Stutzle has more points than matthews has in 6 of his 7 seasons so far

 

[TS Quint]

If you want to approach this with logic, you should be tackling your fellow Sens posters who are attacking AM's playoff record and stats, when Stutzle (or also compared months ago - Tkachuk) have yet to even make the playoffs. AM hasn't missed them.

Something about glass houses...

Matthews is one of the top paid players in the league and his offensive output in the playoffs is pedestrian. Its hard enough to win when you pay a player that much and he plays well. There's no way anyone can consider his playoff performances acceptable.

Making the playoffs is a team achiement, I don't know why you are holding that against Stutzle in a player to player comparison. The best you can say is Stutzle is unknown as a playoff performer.

Matthews goes from 1.13ppg in the regular season to .85. Given the opportunity this isn't an insurmountable number for Stutzle to beat.

Just looking at other players who are considered at Mathews talent level:
McKinnon 1.06 -1.33
McDavid 1.49 - 1.49
Draisaitl 1.16 - 1.59
Kopitar. 88-.81
Toews .83 -.87

There's a drop off for Stamkos (1.05 - .78) but at least in Tampa every player didn't take the GM to the cleaners so they have room for the depth to offset his performance. Which is the same arguement being made for Stutzle and his lower cap hit.

You just don't see many players with the drop in play like you do with Matthews. When it comes to playoff time he's shown to be gutless. Even on his own team, the media and a large portion of Leaf Nation blamed the playoffs on Marner 2 years ago because no one would dare criticize Matthews knowing his contract is up sooner and they dont want to hurt his feelings knowing his next contract negotiation is going to be a bloodbath as is. But Matthews skates by with little criticism over one more goal than Marner. Sure there was room to criticize Marner he didn't use his team mates at all, constantly trying to go through 1 on 2s and 1on 3s and worse by himself it was really noticeable he was going about it the wrong way. Mathews was invisible. Doing nothing while padding his bank account with nearly $16 MILLION DOLLARS. Marner just needed a coach to COACH him. Mathews needed a defibrillator.

With the % of the cap Matthews makes he has to show up. There is no other way.

 

[Sens9292]

Make the playoffs, I know it's been a while



If you're really using 4 total PK points in his career to make a point you're off base.

Matthews 1 for 1 for Stutzle is a no brainer trade. Matthews' "terrible" year is still even with Stutzle's best

A team rebuilds, oh no. It’s a cycle, we’ll all be fans of rebuilding teams.

 

[GCK]

Make the playoffs, I know it's been a while



If you're really using 4 total PK points in his career to make a point you're off base.

Matthews 1 for 1 for Stutzle is a no brainer trade. Matthews' "terrible" year is still even with Stutzle's best

Where did I mention PK points. I said he kills penalties.

Try comparing their 3rd seasons. I’d say Stutzle has the edge but he needs to keep improving obviously to get to Matthews current level.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Matthews is currently a top 5 center league wide even with his injury plagued season this year. I believe Stuzle is top 15 now and will be within the top ten either next season or the season after. Matthews is better but Stuzle could close the gap over the next few years.

 

[Ovi895]

Cost is irrelevant when you are talking about a top 3/4/5 player . Cost is irrelevant when in win right now mode ...the leafs like any team in that spot want the best player that will give them the best chance to win ...and its AM34 over time. Yes potentially the leafs could land a second player with the leftover cash but there is zero guarantee of that working out or even helping. For cash strapped teams it could.make more a tad.more sense but in Toronto absolutely not ...you don't like the leafs like having the games best goal scorer ( potentially) ? A hart mvp? Rocket? Lol ...and again in case you forgot there is absolutely nothing that suggest tim will ever be a hart or rocket contender

Which teams have won the cup with a player making over 10M?

 

[Jerkbait]

Which teams have won the cup with a player making over 10M?

As the cap goes up, the salary goes up...teams that won 10 years ago weren't paying anyone 10 million LOL...
You no logic , you should day what teams have won with the hart trophy winner...

But to counter your weak argument..
Pitt won back to back with malkin making 9.5 , crosby almost 9, Kessel 7, letnag , 7, etc etc
Washington won paying ovie a huge # ,
Tampa was so over the cap they had to hide it while Kucherov was making 9.5...
Come on weak...

 

[Pucklington]

Who's Stutzle?

 

[bert]

Where did I mention PK points. I said he kills penalties.

Try comparing their 3rd seasons. I’d say Stutzle has the edge but he needs to keep improving obviously to get to Matthews current level.

I wonder why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. Matthews is clearly the superior player right now. At the same age its very close. Will Stutzle continue to improve? No one can say for sure or by how much but if you're watching him it's quite obvious he isn't getting any worse. His compete level and raw skill suggest he has atleast another gear as he just turned 21. Every night I come away thinking he should have had 1 or 2 more points. If his finishing ability improves at all he is going to be 40+ goals consistently.

There was a post that talks about the fit for both teams. Right now the leafs are close Matthews is the better fit. Moving forward it will depend on if he is willing to stay and for how much. Some variables that are unknown while we know what Stutzles contract looks like.

The playoff team argument is a strange one. The way this season has gone for each team I don't think the playoff situation for either team is any different if each player switched. Matthews has been battling injury and can't play goalie so the sens are probably likely still out. Stutzle on the leafs they're absolutely in.

Matthews does need to step up in the playoffs though. This year I expect it to happen. I think he also knows if he is going to demand 15+ he needs to have playoff success. Tampa is also ripe for the picking. I am not looking forward to what this board is going to look like when they leafs do finally win a round but I think it's inevitable this year. Unless Vasi carries this short hot streak into the playoffs then all bets are off.

 

[jbeck5]

As the cap goes up, the salary goes up...teams that won 10 years ago weren't paying anyone 10 million LOL...
You no logic , you should day what teams have won with the hart trophy winner...

But to counter your weak argument..
Pitt won back to back with malkin making 9.5 , crosby almost 9, Kessel 7, letnag , 7, etc etc
Washington won paying ovie a huge # ,
Tampa was so over the cap they had to hide it while Kucherov was making 9.5...
Come on weak...

You laughed at his argument..then took the bait and still failed to beat his argument.

Welp.

Should have just skipped over that one, I guess, eh?

 

[Golden_Jet]

As the cap goes up, the salary goes up...teams that won 10 years ago weren't paying anyone 10 million LOL...
You no logic , you should day what teams have won with the hart trophy winner...

But to counter your weak argument..
Pitt won back to back with malkin making 9.5 , crosby almost 9, Kessel 7, letnag , 7, etc etc
Washington won paying ovie a huge # ,
Tampa was so over the cap they had to hide it while Kucherov was making 9.5...
Come on weak...

So nobody over 10.

 

[ER89]

Even ignoring contracts I wouldn't trade Stutzle for Matthews.

LOl that’s a terrible take.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

LOl that’s a terrible take.

Stutzle is 4+ years younger just entering his prime, and is having the better season. He's not the better player yet, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was better over the next 8 years.

 

[Jerkbait]

So nobody over 10.

Irrelevant and plain dumb to compare a 2016 championship team to 2023 LOL..novice...teams won when over the cap...you pay the best players, there is difference between being the top 3 or 4 in the world and a top 30 LOL...

You laughed at his argument..then took the bait and still failed to beat his argument.

Welp.

Should have just skipped over that one, I guess, eh?

Wrong , only a novice would compare a 2016 cup team to now ...rookies ..LOL...a 8 million 35 goal guy isn't going to make you win over a 50 to 60 goal guy making 10 million.....we saw Tampa win with 9.5, Pittsburgh win back to back with 9.5 way back in 16,no logic

 

[Ovi895]

As the cap goes up, the salary goes up...teams that won 10 years ago weren't paying anyone 10 million LOL...
You no logic , you should day what teams have won with the hart trophy winner...

But to counter your weak argument..
Pitt won back to back with malkin making 9.5 , crosby almost 9, Kessel 7, letnag , 7, etc etc
Washington won paying ovie a huge # ,
Tampa was so over the cap they had to hide it while Kucherov was making 9.5...
Come on weak...

Which teams have won the cup with 3 player making over 10M?

 

[Jerkbait]

Which teams have won the cup with 3 player making over 10M?

Which teams have won the cup while

Which teams have won the cup with 3 player making over 10M?

Which teams won by not spending up to 90 percent of the cap ?
Its dumb to compare a team from 2016 to 2023 with salary inflation . Does your food and gas cost the same? Adjust your cap hit to current and both tampa and pitt won multiple Cups with a player or players making era adjusted 10 mill. Further back by the percentage wise of the teams allotted spending LOL..Malkin and Kutherov are prime examples. This isn't hard .....how many teams won with in the cap area with a player(s) making 13 percent of the total allowable NHL cap hit ???.? Come on you got this .......let's see...

You laughed at his argument..then took the bait and still failed to beat his argument.

Welp.

Should have just skipped over that one, I guess, eh?

How many teams in the cap area have won a cup or cups with a player or players making 12 to 13 percent of his teams total payroll allowable cap hit ?
Come on , you got this ........

 

[Golden_Jet]

Which teams have won the cup while

Which teams won by not spending up to 90 percent of the cap ?
Its dumb to compare a team from 2016 to 2023 with salary inflation . Does your food and gas cost the same? Adjust your cap hit to current and both tampa and pitt won multiple Cups with a player or players making era adjusted 10 mill. Further back by the percentage wise of the teams allotted spending LOL..Malkin and Kutherov are prime examples. This isn't hard .....how many teams won with in the cap area with a player(s) making 13 percent of the total allowable NHL cap hit ???.? Come on you got this .......let's see...


How many teams in the cap area have won a cup or cups with a player or players making 12 to 13 percent of his teams total payroll allowable cap hit ?
Come on , you got this ........

lol, dodge the question and reply with a different question.
I’ll try that.
How many won with 4 guys taking about 50% of cap.

 

[Jerkbait]

lol, dodge the question and reply with a different question.
I’ll try that.
How many won with 4 guys taking about 50% of cap.

How many ??? Can't answer ??? Need a hint novice?

 

[Jerkbait]

lol, dodge the question and reply with a different question.
I’ll try that.
How many won with 4 guys taking about 50% of cap.

What team has 4 players making 50 percent of the cap???? Need a hint novice??