Proposal: Would you trade Stutzle for Matthews?

[Lemontree]

Super fun fact , thanks for sharing!

Should probably just brush aside the additional 40 goals that Matthews scored in the same time frame.

I will give you another fun fact: Matthews playoffs goals per game rate is higher than Stuetzle's goal per game rate in his career (regular season). Matthews labelled as someone who can't elevate his play in the playoffs, lets see what Stuetzle can do once he gets there.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Another fun fact:

Matthews first 3 seasons - scored 111 goals in 212 games played.
Stuetzle first 3 seasons - scored 71 goals in 208 games played.

Fun fact
Stutzle first season was also a 56 game season.

 

[Lemontree]

Fun fact
Stutzle first season was also a 56 game season.

Your point? I listed games played for their first 3 seasons.. The difference is a handful of games and massive goal differential.

Matthews first 3 seasons - scored 111 goals in 212 games played.
Stuetzle first 3 seasons - scored 71 goals in 208 games played.

 

[TS Quint]

Should probably just brush aside the additional 40 goals that Matthews scored in the same time frame.

I will give you another fun fact: Matthews playoffs goals per game rate is higher than Stuetzle's goal per game rate in his career (regular season). Matthews labelled as someone who can't elevate his play in the playoffs, let’s see what Stuetzle can do once he gets there.

Another fun fact Matthews goes from an average of 51 goals/82gp in the regular season to 35 goals/82gp In the playoffs.

After all the excuses and blaming other players (Marner, Kadri, Anderssen) or coaches (Babcock) this this the big ticket guy who doesn’t come to play when it matters most yet for some reason escapes all responsibility. If he doesn’t come to the playoffs as regular season Matthews the Leafs aren’t going anywhere, there is just too much money tied up in him for him to be mediocre.

 

[MCR74]

For those who wouldn't trade one for the other, I wouldn't trade Matthews for Stutzle either.

Another fun fact Matthews goes from an average of 51 goals/82gp in the regular season to 35 goals/82gp In the playoffs.

After all the excuses and blaming other players (Marner, Kadri, Anderssen) or coaches (Babcock) this this the big ticket guy who doesn’t come to play when it matters most yet for some reason escapes all responsibility. If he doesn’t come to the playoffs as regular season Matthews the Leafs aren’t going anywhere, there is just too much money tied up in him for him to be mediocre.

Speaking of playoffs, what's Stutzle's record?

 

[Lemontree]

Another fun fact Matthews goes from an average of 51 goals/82gp in the regular season to 35 goals/82gp In the playoffs.

After all the excuses and blaming other players (Marner, Kadri, Anderssen) or coaches (Babcock) this this the big ticket guy who doesn’t come to play when it matters most yet for some reason escapes all responsibility. If he doesn’t come to the playoffs as regular season Matthews the Leafs aren’t going anywhere, there is just too much money tied up in him for him to be mediocre.

Neither bolded points are true. Matthews does need to find another gear come playoff time but it is not true that he doesn't show up or come to play. Matthews along with the rest of the core guys all receive blame for not getting past the 1st round.

What's your take on Stuetzel not being able to elevate his game to get his team into the playoffs after 3 seasons? Let me guess: Its management's fault, goaltending sucks, etc. Making excuses is a 2 way street however you only want to apply them to one player in your scenario.

 

[MCR74]

Neither bolded points are true. Matthews does need to find another gear come playoff time but it is not true that he doesn't show up or come to play. Matthews along with the rest of the core guys all receive blame for not getting past the 1st round.

What's your take on Stuetzel not being able to elevate his game to get his team into the playoffs after 3 seasons? Let me guess: Its management's fault, goaltending sucks, etc. Making excuses is a 2 way street however you only want to apply them to one player in your scenario.

All this going on about the Leafs not getting past first round, Stutzle wouldn't do much vs. the Bruins either.

 

[TS Quint]

For those who wouldn't trade one for the other, I wouldn't trade Matthews for Stutzle either.



Speaking of playoffs, what's Stutzle's record?

i guess you can’t work google.

 

[TS Quint]

Neither bolded points are true. Matthews does need to find another gear come playoff time but it is not true that he doesn't show up or come to play. Matthews along with the rest of the core guys all receive blame for not getting past the 1st round.

What's your take on Stuetzel not being able to elevate his game to get his team into the playoffs after 3 seasons? Let me guess: Its management's fault, goaltending sucks, etc. Making excuses is a 2 way street however you only want to apply them to one player in your scenario.

I dont have excuses for Stutzle like you do Matthews but I guess you can make the same excuses for Stutzel as you do Matthews. But Mathews playoff production isn’t out of reach when the Sens do get to the playoffs.

When comes down to it Matthews makes elite money he needs to be elite in the playoffs if the Leafs are going to succeed. Do you disagree?Are you OK with his playoff performance so far in his career?

There is much less room for error on a player of Matthews pay grade. It’s strange you expect equal production from Stutzle who will make less than 10.12% (depending on cap) next year Vs Matthews 14.6%. And then it gets uglier for Matthews contract after that year.

I’m not saying Matthews doesn’t have the talent to be the same guy that racks up goals and points in the regular season when it comes to the playoffs. I’m saying he hasn’t. It’s just a fact he has a large drop off from regular season to playoffs. For what he gets paid he needs to take the team on his back. When the big 4 contracts all pushed the limits of their pay grade they left the Leafs no choice but to rely on them. Matthews being the largest cap should take the largest responsibility for their failures. So far he never gets the blame. Maybe they know he can’t take it.

It’s been 6 years of Matthews not performing near his regular season standards. If he continues on to 8 years of mediocre play when it matters you might just have to believe your eyes and really consider if he is going to be worth that next monster contract. Or maybe he figures it out you feel better about one or two good playoffs out of 8. But for now he’s questionable when the going gets tough.

 

[Lemontree]

I dont have excuses for Stutzle like you do Matthews but I guess you can make the same excuses for Stutzel as you do Matthews. But Mathews playoff production isn’t out of reach when the Sens do get to the playoffs.

When comes down to it Matthews makes elite money he needs to be elite in the playoffs if the Leafs are going to succeed. Do you disagree?Are you OK with his playoff performance so far in his career?

There is much less room for error on a player of Matthews pay grade. It’s strange you expect equal production from Stutzle who will make less than 10.12% (depending on cap) next year Vs Matthews 14.6%. And then it gets uglier for Matthews contract after that year.

I’m not saying Matthews doesn’t have the talent to be the same guy that racks up goals and points in the regular season when it comes to the playoffs. I’m saying he hasn’t. It’s just a fact he has a large drop off from regular season to playoffs. For what he gets paid he needs to take the team on his back. When the big 4 contracts all pushed the limits of their pay grade they left the Leafs no choice but to rely on them. Matthews being the largest cap should take the largest responsibility for their failures. So far he never gets the blame. Maybe they know he can’t take it.

It’s been 6 years of Matthews not performing near his regular season standards. If he continues on to 8 years of mediocre play when it matters you might just have to believe your eyes and really consider if he is going to be worth that next monster contract. Or maybe he figures it out you feel better about one or two good playoffs out of 8. But for now he’s questionable when the going gets tough.

What excuses do I make for Matthews? My previous post said that he needs to find another gear come playoff time.....that is different than when you claimed he doesn't show up in the playoffs. Frustrated Leaf fans want him to produce more offence than he has because he is an elite player but no one should claim that Matthews isn't engaged or in the fight during the past playoff series failures.

So if I pay 10.12% of my cap I get a 21 year old coming of his ELC and his career season has him pacing to finish T-24th in the league in goals scored and 19th in points.

For an an extra 4.5% of the cap I can get a 25 year old back to back Rocket Richard winner who most recently won the Hart and Ted Lindsay awards. Current season he is getting flak for having a down season which sees him T-14th in the league in goals scored and 21st in points.

 

[TS Quint]

What excuses do I make for Matthews? My previous post said that he needs to find another gear come playoff time.....that is different than when you claimed he doesn't show up in the playoffs. Frustrated Leaf fans want him to produce more offence than he has because he is an elite player but no one should claim that Matthews isn't engaged or in the fight during the past playoff series failures.

So if I pay 10.12% of my cap I get a 21 year old coming of his ELC and his career season has him pacing to finish T-24th in the league in goals scored and 19th in points.

For an an extra 4.5% of the cap I can get a 25 year old back to back Rocket Richard winner who most recently won the Hart and Ted Lindsay awards. Current season he is getting flak for having a down season which sees him T-14th in the league in goals scored and 21st in points.

Be happy with the player whose Stanley Cup is his own regular season accomplishments . I’m not here to tell you how to have fun. He takes a nose dive in the playoffs is all. Until he plays like his salary indicates the Leafs aren’t going anywhere. You seem to agree with me and be upset at the same time.

That 4.5% spent on a guy who chokes in the playoffs could be spent on a goaltender to help cover for Matthews when he doesn’t come to play at the level he is expected. I wouldn’t expect Stutzle to take the nose dive Matthews does because most players don’t do that plus you add $3.667 to the goaltending instead of dumpster diving for Murray you get a real goaltender and you have a better team.

To each their own I guess. He’s an exciting player glad you enjoy what he does.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

Speaking of playoffs, what's Stutzle's record?

LOL at people on here comparing team success to individual success.

But if you want to play that game, one could also say that Stutzle has a much higher chance of winning a playoff series before the age of 25 than Matthews does. And that's a guarantee.

 

[Lemontree]

Be happy with the player whose Stanley Cup is his own regular season accomplishments . I’m not here to tell you how to have fun. He takes a nose dive in the playoffs is all. Until he plays like his salary indicates the Leafs aren’t going anywhere. You seem to agree with me and be upset at the same time.

That 4.5% spent on a guy who chokes in the playoffs could be spent on a goaltender to help cover for Matthews when he doesn’t come to play at the level he is expected. I wouldn’t expect Stutzle to take the nose dive Matthews does because most players don’t do that plus you add $3.667 to the goaltending instead of dumpster diving for Murray you get a real goaltender and you have a better team.

To each their own I guess. He’s an exciting player glad you enjoy what he does.

I'm not upset, not in the slightest. Most players offensive production doesn't dip in the playoffs? You sure about that?

You can assume that of Stutzle all you want, because it is unknown and will remain unknown until he makes the playoffs. Hell, using your logic I can claim that Matthew Knies will be better than Brady Tkachuk because you know.....Knies hasn't played in the NHL (unknown). Although it is possible Knies could become better there is no realistic reason to expect him to be better than Brady.

 

[Lemontree]

LOL at people on here comparing team success to individual success.

But if you want to play that game, one could also say that Stutzle has a much higher chance of winning a playoff series before the age of 25 than Matthews does. And that's a guarantee.

We could also say with certainty that Matthews scored 10 playoffs goals during his ELC and Stutzel scored 0.

I can also say very confidently that Matthews has a higher chance of winning his 3rd Rocket Richard trophy by age 27 than Stutzle.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

We could also say with certainty that Matthews scored 10 playoffs goals during his ELC and Stutzel scored 0.

I can also say very confidently that Matthews has a higher chance of winning his 3rd Rocket Richard trophy by age 27 than Stutzle.

You literally just proved my point...

You can definitely say that... as those are individual measures and I wouldn't really argue any of those points. The playoff one is maybe debatable as you still need to be on a good team to have that opportunity, but still more of an individual measure than playoff wins or playoff series wins...

My point is people to stop using team success to measure individual players.

I've said it many times, no one is trying to say that Stutzle is better, we are trying to portray that he is closer to Matthews than most think, and the decision to take the much younger/cheaper and slightly less better player who is locked up for 7 more years more than Matthews is an actual fair debate, and not "matthews AINEC" or "Stutzle AINEC".

 

[Lemontree]

You literally just proved my point...

You can definitely say that... as those are individual measures and I wouldn't really argue any of those points. The playoff one is maybe debatable as you still need to be on a good team to have that opportunity, but still more of an individual measure than playoff wins or playoff series wins...

My point is people to stop using team success to measure individual players.

I've said it many times, no one is trying to say that Stutzle is better, we are trying to portray that he is closer to Matthews than most think, and the decision to take the much younger/cheaper and slightly less better player who is locked up for 7 more years more than Matthews is an actual fair debate, and not "matthews AINEC" or "Stutzle AINEC".

There a multiple posters in here claiming that Stutzle is a better player currently, they are referencing this current season as the reason why, they have also claimed that Matthews has already peaked and Stutzle will continue to grow.

It is interesting that Stutzle is "much young and cheaper" 4 year age difference and a cap hit difference of $3.6M but Matthews is only "slightly better player".

We don't know what Matthews is going to sign his next deal so it is a very hard comparison to make however the biggest argument being made is that Stutzle is at or close to the level that Matthews is as a player, that is not correct.

 

[thefutures]

I'll take the mvp caliber player

 

[Lemontree]

I'll take the mvp caliber player

There is going to be a lot of posters here claim they are not sure which of the 2 players you are referring to.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Why would we?!

Stu is younger, better and has the better contract.

 

[independent observer]

I would do this trade any day because Matthews is not a guy that excells under pressure… and Stützle is just scratching the surface of his ceiling… and one thing about Germans, German people they excell under pressure… that has always been the case… they know how to dig in with inferior talent as shown by the success of their soccer teams… the talent level is always below some of the other skill nations….

 

[TS Quint]

I'm not upset, not in the slightest. Most players offensive production doesn't dip in the playoffs? You sure about that?

You can assume that of Stutzle all you want, because it is unknown and will remain unknown until he makes the playoffs. Hell, using your logic I can claim that Matthew Knies will be better than Brady Tkachuk because you know.....Knies hasn't played in the NHL (unknown). Although it is possible Knies could become better there is no realistic reason to expect him to be better than Brady.

I didn’t claim he WOULD be better if that’s the hair you need to split. I don’t actually have a crystal ball. I’m saying it’s not unrealistic, probably likely for Stutzle to run better than .85 PPG. It’s not a big number at all. Matthews has the 3rd highest cap hit in the league and the 4th highest ch% but his playoff production is the same as Sam Reinhardt this year, a guy who makes $6.5m.

On top of that when it was only a 5 year contract. Another fun fact, of the top 16 cap hits (expand The list further and it doesn’t make things look much better) only 2 players took less than max years, both greedy Maple Leaf players Who took Dubas to the wood shed.

The Knies example is stupid. you have zero frame of reference to make that prediction. There are zero parallels to make that claim. But if you think that’s a good example I think I see what I’m really dealing with.

 

[Random Comment]

Matthews is the better player right now, but every GM in the league is making that trade for Stutzle, with his cap hit and cost certainty over the next 8 years. There just isn’t a big enough difference between the two. Stutzle can pot 40+ goals and is a better playmaker.

 

[bert]

Is Apple Stutzle having an MVP season or has he ever?

Has Stutzle ever scored 60 goals?

Has Stutzle ever scored 4 goals in a game?

Some years many fans and people in the media debate who's greater: McDavid or Matthews. Do the same people ever do the same with Stutzle and McDavid?

No one will dare to answer yes to any of these things. Therefore, the answer for many is no. They would be crazy to choose Stutzle over Matthews.

He's having a better D + 3 season than Matthews... At that point Matthews never had an MVP caliber season either. The only people that ever compared Matthews to McDavid are leaf fans.

While development isn't linear its pretty obvious how much talent Stutzle has. Will he be the exception and just stop developing. Do you think he peaked in his 20-21 year old season? It's not very likely.

Is matthews better right now... Absolutely. Will he be over the next 8 season making 3.5 to 6 million more. I don't think that's as clear. If you're unable to look at this objectively you're being willfully obtuse.

 

[mydnyte]

He's having a better D + 3 season than Matthews... At that point Matthews never had an MVP caliber season either. The only people that ever compared Matthews to McDavid are leaf fans.

While development isn't linear its pretty obvious how much talent Stutzle has. Will he be the exception and just stop developing. Do you think he peaked in his 20-21 year old season? It's not very likely.

Is matthews better right now... Absolutely. Will he be over the next 8 season making 3.5 to 6 million more. I don't think that's as clear. If you're unable to look at this objectively you're being willfully obtuse.

I wouldn't call all the folks that voted for Matthews as MVP over McDavid as 'Leafs fans' but, i guess you do.

 

[NyQuil]

If Leaf fans are that upset about this thread, just make a poll for Stutzle vs. Matthews ignoring contracts and I’ll happily vote for your golden boy and we can go back down to DEFCON 5.