Proposal: Would you trade Stutzle for Matthews?

[Do Make Say Think]

Pffff

Stutzle is way better

No thanks

 

[GCK]

To be fair Nylander and his daddy are far better contract negotiators than Stutzle and his agent at the same age.

Great post.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I didn't say that, in fact I didn't compare Stutzle to any player. My response was to a poster who using Matthews playoffs scoring against him to try and frame the argument he is not an elite player and worth the money. If that is your take than you should factor in the playoff stats from the other player that the poster was directly comparing Matthews against.

Does that make sense to you?

Stützle is in his third year in the NHL on a rebuilding team. He get a pass on playoff stats until his team has an expectation of making the playoffs.

Matthews playoffs failures are well documented as a key player on a team that should have some playoff success.

Context matters.

 

[calder candidate]

I have no idea what you are watching...


You DON'T know that Stutzle isn't the guy to get you over your playoff hump.

You DO that Matthews isn't the guy to get you over your playoff hump...so far after many attempts.

It isn’t all on Matthew and Stutzle wouldn’t do any better.

 

[Silky Johnson]

He could get 30 lol he could get 50 lol makes no difference..zero zip zilch..nadda ..he isnt winning a hart or Rocket ever guaranteed...too many better players on better teams overlapping their prime with his coming ...I get it, yiur crushed , but don't be,he is still a great player and may crack the top 10 someday but being a top 10 doesn't make you a rocket or hart winner LOL...you rraoze he plays in the same NHL league as conner mcdavid, AM34, Leon, Kucherov, DP, Tage, Barkov, crosby, Marner, Makar, Mackinnon, Robertson, Point, Hughes, etc etc ...LOL and we don't have to Point out the fact a new mcdavid is on his way right??? Its like saying Nylnader will win the Hart next year ....$,#&$$,,$ LOL

Holy shit does the user name check out.

It isn’t all on Matthew and Stutzle wouldn’t do any better.

And you know this how?

 

[Kaner9]

Yes AM is a top 3 player in the Nhl

 

[GCK]

Yes AM is a top 3 player in the Nhl

Hmm He definitely slots in so where in the 2nd to 5th best centres in the NHL.

 

[OmniSens]

Yes AM is a top 3 player in the Nhl

Except, he really isn't.

 

[Jerkbait]

Holy shit does the user name check out.


And you know this how?

Wow, can't make a valid point or argument to counter logic , so we will go with this !!!! The hockey IQ is staggering here ....not ....AM34 over TS everyday of the week .....it like comparing mcdavid to RNH LOL...I like the player but iam not even convinced he is a top 8 C...maybe not even a top 15 forward.

 

[tstracuzza]

5v5 Stutzle's generational season vs Matthews worst season of his career (had to control+F Stutzle to find his name below):

View attachment 677495

I have a feeling AM will notch a few more playoff points, too.

You do realize by your metrics Jeff Skinner is better than Matthews right? Hypocrit

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

You do realize by your metrics Jeff Skinner is better than Matthews right? Hypocrit

Better? Or just having a better 5v5 season? I can admit to that, Skinner had an insane year at the start and AM is having his worst year.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Matthews is finally healthy and is ramping up just in time for the playoffs.

Stutzle has worked out well for Ottawa and is on a good contract. But Matthews is the better player offensively and defensively. Cap savings are nice but when it comes to the big dogs, quality matters.

 

[GCK]

Matthews is finally healthy and is ramping up just in time for the playoffs.

Stutzle has worked out well for Ottawa and is on a good contract. But Matthews is the better player offensively and defensively. Cap savings are nice but when it comes to the big dogs, quality matters.

I think everyone can agree that Matthews is a better player than Stutzle today and it’s not all that close.

Comparing Matthews and Stutzle in their respective 3rd seasons shows a slight advantage to Stutzle.

Can Stutzle continue to develop and match or surpass Matthews in seasons 4-7 is unknown. The only thing we know is that Stutzle’s contract will be 3.5M less than Matthews was.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Another reason why I think Toronto should accept this trade, it would give them a reset on the overpayment culture they've established with their young stars. The cap savings could be potentially be more then just the difference between Matthews and Stutzle. I think Marner would lose a lot of negotiating leverage, as he can no longer say he's worth as much as Matthews to the team. Nylander would not be in a position to demand millions more than Stutzle. I realize both players have Ufa leverage but they would be in less of a position to demand major overpayment to not go to the Ufa market. I think Toronto would be in a position to establish a new culture, that focuses more on team success. I think the team would be more competitive with the extra cap space. It's not like they've had playoff success with their current cap structure so they should be open to change, if the opportunity presented itself...not that Ottawa would ever make this trade though.

 

[Lemontree]

Stützle is in his third year in the NHL on a rebuilding team. He get a pass on playoff stats until his team has an expectation of making the playoffs.

Matthews playoffs failures are well documented as a key player on a team that should have some playoff success.

Context matters.

Auston Matthews stepped into the same situation. Every since he stepped foot in the NHL, his team ceased being a rebuilding team and became a team that had expectations.....this isn't because of Matthews alone however the major reason why the Leafs were not longer viewed rebuilding is because of the player Matthews already was on day #1 and would grow to be.

Matthews along with all the other Leafs need to elevate their game once the playoffs start. Stutzle will realize that the game is different come playoff time once he experiences it.....toughest part for the players like Stutzle is that middle of the ice is closed off and hard to generate attacking speed off the rush. McDavid and MacKinnon are the only 2 current players that come to mind that can still play their style once the tight checking playoffs start.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Stützle is in his third year in the NHL on a rebuilding team. He get a pass on playoff stats until his team has an expectation of making the playoffs.

Matthews playoffs failures are well documented as a key player on a team that should have some playoff success.

Context matters.

It's true, not making the playoffs is better than making the playoffs and losing.

 

[pth2]

Given the cities they play in, no, I wouldn't make that trade if I'm Ottawa. I don't think Matthews would extend in Ottawa (unless next season was a massive success).

If I'm Toronto, I don't make the trade either, since I expect to re-sign Matthews. The only exception is if his agent has been clear he isn't re-signing regardless of $ amount or any other contract issues.

 

[mydnyte]

It's true, not making the playoffs is better than making the playoffs and losing.

lol, you must have a closet full of 16th place ribbons.

only ONE team wins the cup, everyone else loses.
lose round 1 to the cup winner, or lose in game 7 in OT in the finals, and you still lost.

not making the playoffs IS worse, because it shows you are not even good enough to have a chance to get 'lucky' in the playoffs
St Louis was a great example, they got hot at the end of the season, and rode that all the way to a cup.
they werent considered a 'contender' that season, TB was the favorite, and got swept in 4.
St Louis was tied for 10th (12th depending) 3 teams with 99 points

 

[KevinRedkey]

Over the last 3 years:
- Most goals scored
- Highest ESG/60 and G/GP.
- 4th in points, 5th in P/GP, 2nd in ESP/60.
- 2nd in blocked shots, 1st in shots taken
- 5th in +/- (for what that’s worth)

If you’re trying to say Matthews is like Taylor Hall, please say so so that I can just ignore your posts going forward because that’s an atrocious take

I use to have you ignore. You're known for being a Leafs homer. I wouldn't expect you to understand the comparison.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

lol, you must have a closet full of 16th place ribbons.

As opposed to "didn't make the playoffs ribbons" ? Don't worry, we had plenty of those pre-Matthews era.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Given the cities they play in, no, I wouldn't make that trade if I'm Ottawa. I don't think Matthews would extend in Ottawa (unless next season was a massive success).

If I'm Toronto, I don't make the trade either, since I expect to re-sign Matthews. The only exception is if his agent has been clear he isn't re-signing regardless of $ amount or any other contract issues.

Very well said.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Wow, can't make a valid point or argument to counter logic , so we will go with this !!!! The hockey IQ is staggering here ....not ....AM34 over TS everyday of the week .....it like comparing mcdavid to RNH LOL...I like the player but iam not even convinced he is a top 8 C...maybe not even a top 15 forward.

Cap magement is a thing. And Matthews is showing Canadian markets value which plays a big factor.

 

[Jerkbait]

Cap magement is a thing. And Matthews is showing Canadian markets value which plays a big factor.

Yes I agree. However cap issues don't play a large part when talking about super star players . McDavid is gonna get paid , Matthews is gonna get paid. Having the MVP and rocket plays on your team.is massive and to the leafs its worth 3.5 mil...keeping your other star forward marner happy is also important. Its hard to value superstars unless they have long term deals . Tim will get paid too at some point and we don't know.where AM.34 wants to go with his salary. If both players were signed for 8 years and the same age then there is more to consider. Right now Matthews give s the leafs a better shot at winning NOW. Thats worth the extra cap hit

 

[Silky Johnson]

It's true, not making the playoffs is better than making the playoffs and losing.

Of course but beside the point. Expectations and how player/teams are judged greatly depends on where they are in a development and contention cycles.

If in five years Stützle hasn't won a playoff round he will be criticised, correctly.

Relative expectations is a pretty easy concept....

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Of course but beside the point. Expectations and how player/teams are judged greatly depends on where they are in a development and contention cycles.

If in five years Stützle hasn't won a playoff round he will be criticised, correctly.

Relative expectations is a pretty easy concept....

If you want to approach this with logic, you should be tackling your fellow Sens posters who are attacking AM's playoff record and stats, when Stutzle (or also compared months ago - Tkachuk) have yet to even make the playoffs. AM hasn't missed them.

Something about glass houses...