Would You Guarantee Dubas' Job For 2022-23 If It Meant Holding On To Our Futures?

[Bluelines]

Keefe 100% has to go and if Dubas does that right away it might buy him 1 last chance to fix this toxic mess

They say the GM always has one bullet in his gun, that bullet is to fire the coach he brought in. Babcock was more of a Shanny/Lou Lam decision. So Dubas knows once he fires Keefe, the clock is ticking on him. He will keep Keefe as long as he cant to buy himself time.

 

[hotpaws]

Nah you're blind. Toronto has a legitimate shot at winning the division.


Made good trades, smart signings, etc. You know, thing's that GM's do? This franchise has turned around since he's been in the driver's seat. Playoff success isn't the best way to score a GM.


You're just making that up. Keefe is not taking coaching instructions from Dubas.

i have no idea what GM your evaluating but it's not Dubas . lol

but don't worry , when he gets fired you can worship the next GM , they'll always be someone's ass to fill our GM seat

 

[hotpaws]

They say the GM always has one bullet in his gun, that bullet is to fire the coach he brought in. Babcock was more of a Shanny/Lou Lam decision. So Dubas knows once he fires Keefe, the clock is ticking on him. He will keep Keefe as long as he cant to buy himself time.

people use to say that about Burke but it didn't buy him more time and Dubas keeping Keefe won't buy him any more time either

 

[Mugzy97]

i have no idea what GM your evaluating but it's not Dubas . lol

but don't worry , when he gets fired you can worship the next GM , they'll always be someone's ass to fill our GM seat

I'm not worshiping anybody, just looking at the facts and forming an opinion.

Just because we lost a series in unspectacular fashion, everyone is pointing the finger at someone because they're upset, I get it. But once the knot in your panties loosens up you'll realize that the 3 years of Dubas' work has been very good, and this team is very good.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The events you’re describing are the cleaned up press releases to make people feel good about the incoming GM. A guy who gets kicked upstairs into a “senior” role who runs out the door a week later is clearly not part of the loop.

Again, that is 100% false. There is absolutely nothing to support your claimed version of events. This was a plan made collectively, that everybody was aware of, from the start. Lou was not "kicked upstairs". The plan was GM for 3 years, and senior advisor for 4 more.

Lamoriello joined the Maple Leafs in 2015 and agreed to spend seven years with the team: three as GM and four as a senior adviser.

Lou Lamoriello will be moving from general manager to a senior adviser role with the Toronto Maple Leafs, as the two sides had always planned.

"I made an agreement and a decision three years ago and it is my intent to honour that."

The revisionist history you're attempting here is ridiculous. Dubas did not force anything, even though he likely could have with other teams wanting him.

Dubas’ pipeline hasn’t produced very many viable promotions since 2018. Yo-yo’ing Sandin and Robertson on completely ill defined promotional paths doesn’t count.

Nobody is being yo-yo'd, and our pipeline has improved significantly since 2018. Draft picks moving into an NHL role takes development time.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm not worshiping anybody, just looking at the facts and forming an opinion.

Just because we lost a series in unspectacular fashion, everyone is pointing the finger at someone because they're upset, I get it. But once the knot in your panties loosens up you'll realize that the 3 years of Dubas' work has been very good, and this team is very good.

sure you are but don't worry you aren't the only one

yeah we just lost one series if you don't count the other series

Dubie's work has been trash . bleeding picks and prospects , destroying our cap , hiring an incompetent coach , losing to 2 lower rated team in the first rd etc ,,,

but f*** all that shit because your a true fan and a true fan supports his GM to the bitter end and then once he's fired he turns on him to support the new guy .lol

 

[justashadowof]

Self delusion is a strong drug.

 

[Bomber0104]

I'm not worshiping anybody, just looking at the facts and forming an opinion.

Just because we lost a series in unspectacular fashion, everyone is pointing the finger at someone because they're upset, I get it. But once the knot in your panties loosens up you'll realize that the 3 years of Dubas' work has been very good, and this team is very good.

So "Dubas has been good, the team is very good", but for some reason they just don't win like good teams do in the playoffs?

Strange phenomena here in Toronto...

 

[Mess]

Of course. We were all here playing out all the angles in real time and it was only 3 summers ago…

There seems to be all these alternate facts being floated, combined with this everything is going perfectly as planned bizarro world alternate universe somewhere out there, disconnected from actual reality which I suppose some of us living in this world would call the twilight zone.

In that universe they're not discussing if Leafs GM needs guide rails to prevent inflicting further damage, but rather likely where to place the guide rails along the Leafs planned parade route right about now..

 

[egd27]

Playoff success isn't the best way to score a GM.

Ok I'll bite.....................what is the best way to score a GM ?

 

[justashadowof]

Ok I'll bite.....................what is the best way to score a GM ?

Fashion? How much you identify with the GM? What you're told to think by your favourite hockey twitter accounts that have fashionable causes in the bio?

 

[Bomber0104]

Ok I'll bite.....................what is the best way to score a GM ?

How many times you can use the words "vision", "process", "learning", and each reporter's first name in a press conference.

Definitely not what actually happens on the ice though.

That would be an absolutely ridiculous way to rate a GM's performance.

 

[AvroArrow]

He should be fired already, since he isn't...another 1st round exist should have him fired and never be allowed near an NHL team again. Clown destroyed the most promising future in the league.

 

[justashadowof]

So "Dubas has been good, the team is very good", but for some reason they just don't win like good teams do in the playoffs?

Strange phenomena here in Toronto...

It feels successful and should be successful therefore it's successful. Eliminate any data that doesn't confirm that evaluation. After all 3 is a small sample set.

 

[Stephen]

There seems to be all these alternate facts being floated, combined with this everything is going perfectly as planned bizarro world alternate universe somewhere out there, disconnected from actual reality which I suppose some of us living in this world would call the twilight zone.

In that universe they're not discussing if Leafs GM needs guide rails to prevent inflicting further damage, but rather likely where to place the guide rails along the Leafs planned parade route right about now..

Mess, if you recall, the narrative that was floated around at the time was sarcastically framed as “yeah sure this was planned all along, the Leafs fired Lou’s because he’s a dinosaur and we have a bright young Theo Epstein to take this to the future.”

This is an example of that thinking.

Toronto Maple Leafs Fire Lamoriello, and Good Riddance

The other thing is, how could the Shanaplan have predetermined what kind of state the Leafs would be in June 2018 from way back to in 2015 to allow for a smooth transition to take place? Also there was the Mark Hunter vs Kyle Dubas angle for successor.

It makes no sense to cling to that PR. Doesn’t even make anyone look particularly good.

 

[Stephen]

How many times you can use the words "vision", "process", "learning", and each reporter's first name in a press conference.

Definitely not what actually happens on the ice though.

That would be an absolutely ridiculous way to rate a GM's performance.

I understand the jargon that comes with being a professional in their 30s, you have to couch some of your missteps in a positive mindset and willingness to grow from experience. Humility, process, work ethic.

But if I’m the owner I would be wondering about Kyle. Are you the visionary builder we hired you to be or are you job training on my time, dollar and patience?

 

[egd27]

But if I’m the owner I would be wondering about Kyle. Are you the visionary builder we hired you to be or are you job training on my time, dollar and patience?

I'm shocked that any objective observer would still be pondering that question.

 

[justashadowof]

How many times you can use the words "vision", "process", "learning", and each reporter's first name in a press conference.

Definitely not what actually happens on the ice though.

That would be an absolutely ridiculous way to rate a GM's performance.

That's pure corporate HR speak. I'm not sure how I want him to speak, I'd be perfectly fine with that hazy faux-positive language if it weren't the public face of a weak plan that has failed all battle tests in the past.
The familiarity with the reporters is pure soft skill magic. It's a calculated strategy to delay the fangs coming out from the media vipers.

 

[ToneDog]

Stick boy should never have been hired. Members of the board must not be paying attention because anybody with half a brain can see that Shanny and Co. needed to be fired yesterday. Sad for what is supposed to be the Mecca of hockey.

 

[justashadowof]

But if I’m the owner I would be wondering about Kyle. Are you the visionary builder we hired you to be or are you job training on my time, dollar and patience?

Well, they also hired a president to train on the job too. And that president decided to listen to the youngest guy in the room instead of the successful former president/gm he also had in the room. I still say that it was very bad sign the quality of people who jumped ship in the months after Dubas' promotion to GM. Mark Hunter didn't want some well-paying position like Director of Scouting or Director of Player Personnel? Lou Lamiorello didn't want to stay on as a hands on Senior Advisor to the President and GM? Well they knew that they weren't going to be welcome in the new organization under Dubas.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I guess when there's no legitimate reason to dislike Dubas and what he's done here, the only option is resorting to revising history to misrepresent him and the circumstances around his hiring, contrary to all evidence.

 

[Dreakmur]

Nobody is being yo-yo'd, and our pipeline has improved significantly since 2018. Draft picks moving into an NHL role takes development time.

The current prospect pool always looks better than the past simply because none of the current guys have flopped yet.

5 years ago, we talked the same way about Jeremy Bracco, Matt Finn, Stuart Percy, and Josh Leivo. Remember Jerry D'Amigo and Jesse Blacker?

15 years ago, we talked about Matt Stajan, Kyle Wellwood, Carlo Colaiacovo, Ian White, and Brad Boyes.

 

[Dekes For Days]

5 years ago, we talked the same way about Jeremy Bracco, Matt Finn, Stuart Percy, and Josh Leivo. Remember Jerry D'Amigo and Jesse Blacker?
15 years ago, we talked about Matt Stajan, Kyle Wellwood, Carlo Colaiacovo, Ian White, and Brad Boyes.

Leaf fans talk about Leaf prospects. That doesn't equate to those prospect pools being the same quality as the one we have now.

 

[ToneDog]

Well, they also hired a president to train on the job too. And that president decided to listen to the youngest guy in the room instead of the successful former president/gm he also had in the room. I still say that it was very bad sign the quality of people who jumped ship in the months after Dubas' promotion to GM. Mark Hunter didn't want some well-paying position like Director of Scouting or Director of Player Personnel? Lou Lamiorello didn't want to stay on as a hands on Senior Advisor to the President and GM? Well they knew that they weren't going to be welcome in the new organization under Dubas.

Any fool knew that Hunter, Lou and Babs would not accept reporting to a f'n stick boy except our delusional President. Seriously is anybody awake at MLSEL to see where this team has gone since stick boy was given the keys to the candy store ??

 

[Stephen]

I guess when there's no legitimate reason to dislike Dubas and what he's done here, the only option is resorting to revising history to misrepresent him and the circumstances around his hiring, contrary to all evidence.

Flipping it around, why is there any legitimate reason for a Leafs fan to especially like Kyle Dubas or identify with him more than Lou Lamoriello? They’re just employees of a team you cheer for.