Would it really be the end of the world if Matthews isn’t on the team in two years?

[MAB1]

I'm a Sens fan, so just throwing that out there as I'm sure I'm coming in with my biases, and completely understand any Leaf fan dismissing a rival fan opinion right now.

With that out of the way, I think Matthews resigns, but it will be at a price point significantly higher than what we've seen top players sign at.

There's been rumblings that agents want to see top salary levels rise in the NHL, most notably by a comment from Kypreos. It's Kypreos, so it deserves some skepticism. But, his sources has usually been the player agent community, so, it's an area where he could have insight. If that sentiment exists, Matthews is the next big player up for a contract.

If Matthews is looking to set the new standard, Toronto is probably the team that is most likely to pay him. Owned by two media conglomerates, any GM or team president that says they can't make the salary work would get fired. A board of directors would see it as a simple decision to take the biggest name they've had on the Leafs and give him what he wants. Especially since the discussion will be happening around the same time that an extension for Pascal Siakam is being discussed, and that's trending towards a Supermax extension that'll make Matthews demands seem quaint (note: as a Raptors fan, MLSE should absolutely give Siakam what he's due).

The different league economics and team competitive concerns will be moot at that point. MLSE will want to keep the guy who makes them a lot of money.

I think a contract at the 20% max will happen. I think the term may not be as long though, to allow for reups as the cap goes up, but, NHLers tend to value security, so hard to judge that.

Cue the Kevin Durant music.

 

[Warden of the North]

Without a Cup win, it will certainly show a failure to build around arguably the best Leaf ever.

If he doesn't resign before next season he needs to be traded. An asset of his value cannot be allowed to walk.

 

[ULF_55]

Without a Cup win, it will certainly show a failure to build around arguably the best Leaf ever.

If he doesn't resign before next season he needs to be traded. An asset of his value cannot be allowed to walk.

If they miss the playoffs or come up short again this year it might be a very uncomfortable scenario for a couple players.

To pay him max, their prospects absolutely have to strike gold to make the team on ELC and contribute. Maybe he accepts a 2 year deal, and then gobbles up the Tavares money when he's off contract?

 

[centipede2233]

if matthews doesn’t break through as with the leafs and get some playoff success, he should be traded. I think the leafs are screwed either way. I don’t see a Stanley cup with matthews at 14 mil AAV. How the 11.9 mil one working out for you in regards to team success? I also don’t think you get a kings randsom unless he is traded to a team with intent from matthews camp that an extension is in place. But that’s tough. A team has to @@a) have the cap space for a 14 mil + player and it has to be a team matthews would want to sign with. for The people who want matthews to resign, all I will say, be careful what you wish for. One player on a nhl team doesn’t move the needle like a quarterback in the nfl, or a mlb starting pitcher, or a nba superstar. Hockey is a less controlled sport, where pucks are deflected and rarely on any one players stick long enough to dictate the outcome of a season. Best case scenario is the leafs do a similar trade like tkachuk’s.

 

[ToneDog]

I hope he lets the Leafs know his intensions going into the season before July 1st as Seth Jones and Tkachuk did. If he does what Tavres did, Isles' fans will call it karma.

 

[ULF_55]

if matthews doesn’t break through as with the leafs and get some playoff success, he should be traded. I think the leafs are screwed either way. I don’t see a Stanley cup with matthews at 14 mil AAV. How the 11.9 mil one working out for you in regards to team success? I also don’t think you get a kings randsom unless he is traded to a team with intent from matthews camp that an extension is in place. But that’s tough. A team has to @@a) have the cap space for a 14 mil + player and it has to be a team matthews would want to sign with. for The people who want matthews to resign, all I will say, be careful what you wish for. One player on a nhl team doesn’t move the needle like a quarterback in the nfl, or a mlb starting pitcher, or a nba superstar. Hockey is a less controlled sport, where pucks are deflected and rarely on any one players stick long enough to dictate the outcome of a season. Best case scenario is the leafs do a similar trade like tkachuk’s.

I think more important than a part time player in baseball, who plays only 1/4 of the games.

But yes, quarterback, NBA track meets, and goaltenders who play 70-75% of the games are more important.

 

[ULF_55]

I hope he lets the Leafs know his intensions going into the season before July 1st as Seth Jones and Tkachuk did. If he does what Tavres did, Isles' fans will call it karma.

Yes, Tkachuk worked with the Flames. He might be a dirtbag on the ice, but that was perhaps a combination or really wanting out and/or showing some respect to the team.

Gaudreau kind of strung them along, but they did get several years service from him for a reasonable caphit / performance ratio.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Anybody saying "If he demands $15x5 you give it to him", don't you see that this is the reason the Leafs can't get past the 1st round? There's no cap left to improve the D or shore up goaltending, add valuable players to the bottom 6.

Bending over to AM's agent and giving him that much more than MacKinnon & McDavid is insanity. He is not worth more than McDavid in any shape or form. That also triggers a trickle down effect. What do you think Nylander and Marner are gonna ask for down the line? Whoever the GM is when that contract is up needs to draw a line in the sand and ensure that for the first time, AM puts the team ahead of personal financial goals.

Without a Cup win, it will certainly show a failure to build around arguably the best Leaf ever.

If he doesn't resign before next season he needs to be traded. An asset of his value cannot be allowed to walk.

Matthews has a full no move in the last year of his deal. If he's gonna be traded it'd have to be this year and I don't see that happening.

Think about how badly AM's agent absolutely manhandled Dubas. He really bent him over and made Dubey grab his ankles.

 

[ToneDog]

Yes, Tkachuk worked with the Flames. He might be a dirtbag on the ice, but that was perhaps a combination or really wanting out and/or showing some respect to the team.

Gaudreau kind of strung them along, but they did get several years service from him for a reasonable caphit / performance ratio.

Worst case he plays out the contract and we have $12.634m to go shopping July 1, 2024. No idea who the best UFAs will be out there.

 

[Bomber0104]

Anybody saying "If he demands $15x5 you give it to him", don't you see that this is the reason the Leafs can't get past the 1st round? There's no cap left to improve the D or shore up goaltending, add valuable players to the bottom 6.

Bending over to AM's agent and giving him that much more than MacKinnon & McDavid is insanity. He is not worth more than McDavid in any shape or form. That also triggers a trickle down effect. What do you think Nylander and Marner are gonna ask for down the line? Whoever the GM is when that contract is up needs to draw a line in the sand and ensure that for the first time, AM puts the team ahead of personal financial goals.

Exactly.

I don't know how or when this mentality crept into this fanbase but the whole "give the players everything/anything they want" is a huge reason why we're in the position we're in.

There isn't a more irresponsible way to manage a team than handing over blank cheques.

 

[ToneDog]

Exactly.

I don't know how or when this mentality crept into this fanbase but the whole "give the players everything/anything they want" is a huge reason why we're in the position we're in.

There isn't a more irresponsible way to manage a team than handing over blank cheques.

It is what Dubus has instilled in some of the fan base by his first 4 contract negotiations. In fairness, he squeezes the guys making peanuts.

 

[ULF_55]

Worst case he plays out the contract and we have $12.634m to go shopping July 1, 2024. No idea who the best UFAs will be out there.

I've looked at Capfriendly and unless they re-sign I believe there are some nice assets there.

Is there a Matthews, probably not but if there is no success with Matthews ...

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I've looked at Capfriendly and unless they re-sign I believe there are some nice assets there.

Is there a Matthews, probably not but if there is no success with Matthews ...

You've won absolutely nothing with Matthews. Maybe you'd be better off with a stronger and more balanced lineup rather than hoping for just one of your players to score all the goals?

 

[TheScandal89]

The team will be in full rebuild mode, with fans throwing waffles and jerseys on the ice because we aren't patient enough to rebuild properly. We were doing a good job with this core, but our early success really ruined it because we started trading picks and prospects for compete now guys like Muzzin, Pleckanek, Boyle, etc.

Not to mention our stars got paid so much after winning nothing and being RFAs. The Tavares signing I think is still a good one, the problem is our GM couldnt keep Matthews and Marner grounded to convince them they weren't worth a 26 year old UFAs contract yet. Well, Matthews you can't really argue I guess.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

The team will be in full rebuild mode, with fans throwing waffles and jerseys on the ice because we aren't patient enough to rebuild properly. We were doing a good job with this core, but our early success really ruined it because we started trading picks and prospects for compete now guys like Muzzin, Pleckanek, Boyle, etc.

Don't forget Foligno, Dubas really knocked it out of the park with his rental trades

 

[RoadWarrior]

No. I’m not convinced based on historical evidence that Matthews wants to win in Toronto. After not showing up for games 6 and 7 against Tampa he looks physically out of shape to start the next season. That’s not a player committed to his current organization.

The best case for the leafs at this point is trading Matthews for a huge haul involving top prospects and a truly impactful leader coming back the other way.

Under the cap system it’s all about value for money. Younger skilled players or veteran two way players are generally speaking the best value for money.

Trading multiple first round picks in recent years has hollowed out the leafs prospect pool to the point where those high value entry level contracts just aren’t there and they’ve traded away two way forwards like Kadri and failed to resign Hyman.

Skill is great but without leadership, work ethic, commitment to team defence or toughness it barely matters.

The leafs have too many players high on skill but low on everything else.

 

[ULF_55]

You've won absolutely nothing with Matthews. Maybe you'd be better off with a stronger and more balanced lineup rather than hoping for just one of your players to score all the goals?

You meant the Leafs.

But yes I have won as many playoff rounds as Matthews in NHL.

 

[Trapper]

No. I’m not convinced based on historical evidence that Matthews wants to win in Toronto. After not showing up for games 6 and 7 against Tampa he looks physically out of shape to start the next season. That’s not a player committed to his current organization.

The best case for the leafs at this point is trading Matthews for a huge haul involving top prospects and a truly impactful leader coming back the other way.

Under the cap system it’s all about value for money. Younger skilled players or veteran two way players are generally speaking the best value for money.

Trading multiple first round picks in recent years has hollowed out the leafs prospect pool to the point where those high value entry level contracts just aren’t there and they’ve traded away two way forwards like Kadri and failed to resign Hyman.

Skill is great but without leadership, work ethic, commitment to team defence or toughness it barely matters.

The leafs have too many players high on skill but low on everything else.

That’s the problem. We have players with skill but no identity. People think you just throw a Matthews/Nylander, sign a Tavares = Cup. We have seen that’s not the case.

You need an identity as an organization first. Then you put the pieces of skill that fit it.

For me, it’s a hard working, defensive team. Build that identity and add the same skill mentality to it. That’s why a team like Boston can call people up from the minors and they look better than they are. System, identity and skill that matches it.

You need to keep drafting and trade for the skill that matches your identity. Not pay 4 guys half the cap that play to their own tune.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Coyotes might be interested. You could get a nice haul from them either in young prospects and/or some really high 1st round picks. You never know what could happen in the 2023 draft with Bedard floating around there.

I think you have to clean house in the management team though either first or simultaneously. There's more focus on firing Keefe and Dubas, but Shanny has to go as well because when its rotten at the very top, everything is rotten. All three have failed and are over their heads.

Keefe seems likely as the 1st to go as getting rid of the coach is tradition. But, I hope much more than that is done versus just focusing on the easy scapegoat.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

It is what Dubus has instilled in some of the fan base by his first 4 contract negotiations. In fairness, he squeezes the guys making peanuts.

That makes for great team unity doesn't it? And we wonder why this team is what it is.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Anybody saying "If he demands $15x5 you give it to him", don't you see that this is the reason the Leafs can't get past the 1st round? There's no cap left to improve the D or shore up goaltending, add valuable players to the bottom 6.

Bending over to AM's agent and giving him that much more than MacKinnon & McDavid is insanity. He is not worth more than McDavid in any shape or form. That also triggers a trickle down effect. What do you think Nylander and Marner are gonna ask for down the line? Whoever the GM is when that contract is up needs to draw a line in the sand and ensure that for the first time, AM puts the team ahead of personal financial goals.


Matthews has a full no move in the last year of his deal. If he's gonna be traded it'd have to be this year and I don't see that happening.

Think about how badly AM's agent absolutely manhandled Dubas. He really bent him over and made Dubey grab his ankles.

I agree with you about AM's agent making a fool out of Dubas. He was an rfa and Dubas had ALL the leverage. The "offer-sheet threat" was a made up media narrative that only existed in the year 2019... when the leafs stars were rfa's. Not a peep about offer-sheets before that. Not a peep since.

However...

Matthews is about to become a ufa. Now HE will have all the leverage. I actually agree with the fans saying we should just give him what he wants. If it's 15x5, then so be it.

The current problem with the leafs is having half the cap on 4 forwards and 33 mil tied up on 3 forwards. We should make Matthews our lone superstar and pay him handsomely for it. And surround him with middling stars in the 5-8 mil range. In the cap world there isn't enough room for 2 superstars making superstar money... unless they take discounts. But it's clear as day that the leafs core fight for every penny.

It's why I think the leafs should just trade Marner before his nmc kicks in. We can't afford both Marner and Matthews. Get assets for him now. Build around Matthews.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I like 99% of your posts, man. But this one? Please, don't do drugs.

Never once touched any drug .. but have had more than my share of drunken hangovers .. i hope I am wrong but I think Matty will go to highest bidder .. all da cards are in his control so a place like LA, close to home, 15M is very possible in 2 years with CAP rise .. but agree with you if he does not resign by whenever da no trade date kicks in then he must be MOVED for 5 1st rounders or some combo of 1st rounders and active 1st rounder prospects and/or players .. no team can't take on da risk .. whether it is McJesus or MAC or Matty

 

[Coaches Coroner]

It would be the end of NHL hockey in Toronto.

 

[ToneDog]

I agree with you about AM's agent making a fool out of Dubas. He was an rfa and Dubas had ALL the leverage. The "offer-sheet threat" was a made up media narrative that only existed in the year 2019... when the leafs stars were rfa's. Not a peep about offer-sheets before that. Not a peep since.

However...

Matthews is about to become a ufa. Now HE will have all the leverage. I actually agree with the fans saying we should just give him what he wants. If it's 15x5, then so be it.

The current problem with the leafs is having half the cap on 4 forwards and 33 mil tied up on 3 forwards. We should make Matthews our lone superstar and pay him handsomely for it. And surround him with middling stars in the 5-8 mil range. In the cap world there isn't enough room for 2 superstars making superstar money... unless they take discounts. But it's clear as day that the leafs core fight for every penny.

It's why I think the leafs should just trade Marner before his nmc kicks in. We can't afford both Marner and Matthews. Get assets for him now. Build around Matthews.

Problem is, where do you get these guys ?? We have not drafted and developed many and the UFA market is a crap shoot. Need assets to trade for them. 15x5 is repeating the same mistake as his current contract. Look if Matty puts money ahead of building a better team, do you really want him?? I'd move him for blue chippers and high picks.

Oh yeah, 3 goals in 10 games should not get you $15m when McDavid has 9g and 9a in 9 games and is making $12.5m IMO. Sorry Matty, go get your money somewhere else.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

It is what Dubus has instilled in some of the fan base by his first 4 contract negotiations. In fairness, he squeezes the guys making peanuts.

Agreed. He has to after mismanaging the cap and giving the Fab Four $40 m. Rather predictably, rearranging the deck chairs and tinkering with the bottom half of the lineup does nothing worthwhile.

AM & MM must have been squirming with delight when they gave that Tavares that $11 m contract. The barn door was wide open at that point.