World cup is better than Olympics

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Let me know when Europe starts scheduling events specifically for North America. I'll be waiting...

The Olympics are staged every now and then in North America - and in Europe. The WC even with proper teams would always be played in front of Canadian homecrowds, on small ice with NHL rules and referees. It's just not comparable, at all.

Btw, as regards the small ice - especially with elite teams and high tempo play the game becomes some sort of hysterical version of a pinball machine with pretty much only one player type dominating, smaller sized players need not apply except in few cases. Large ice can lead to more conservative game, yes, but it also allows many types of play and players. In my view though a universal hybrid ice would be ideal, a compromise between North America and Europe.
 
Let me know when Europe starts scheduling events specifically for North America. I'll be waiting...

I'll let you know when Europe starts scheduling events in the middle of the night for North Americans.
 
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Let me know when Europe starts scheduling events specifically for North America. I'll be waiting...
You realize it's a lot easier to schedule something a few hours earlier than a few hours later?

The equivalent of a 0100 "sunday" game for us would be a 1300 game for you (in a UTC-4 zone). That's maybe a little inconvinient to watch the game on bright daylight, but a lot better than the opposite, which is either take monday off or spend it as a sleep deprieved zombie. For a game to start at 1900 in NA, as the final on sunday does, it would need to be scheduled on 0100 here in europe. That's impossible.

The NHL is like, "hey we have this cool "World" Cup thing, international competition and all".
"You know what, how about scheduling the finals in a way the majority of the fans of the participating teams won't be able to watch live?"
"Brilliant idea, should grow the product immensely".
Edith just said: "Well they could at least watch highlights on the greatest website of all, NHL.com"
 
after waking up and seeing Europe beat Sweden the parity in this tournament while getting all of the best players on a team together no matter what is epic.

so happy it replaced the olympics and the inaugrual tournament so far has blown my expectations away.

finally a true all star tournament.

thank you bettman

I don'tknow what Bettman is paying youm,but it is still a crappy idea of a tournament. Team Europe is nonsence and nothing will ever replace the Olympics. And oh yeah, Bettman sucks.
 
When talking about Olympics many people forget that it's not just about USA (or Canada). Olympics exposes ice hockey to whole sports world whereas World Cup is basically only about showcasing NHL players to North American spectators. Most people in the world couldn't care less if NHL players are missing from Olympics. They wouldn't notice the difference in game play either, and I claim that most of the hockey fans themselves wouldn't notice either. It's the same for me if I watch Olympic handball. Why should I care if top end talent is not playing because I can't notice the difference and the participating players are competing for the medals, not those who are out.

From business point of view it would be problem for IOC to not have NHL players in Olympics, but otherwise it's not a problem. Countries will send teams to Olympics anyway and best teams of the tournament will get medals. Tournament proves which team was best and nothing else. A tournament never proves which country is best in hockey, even though many fans also on this forum try to believe so.

Olympic medal has its value regardless of who was in and who was out. Many Russian athletes were out of Rio, and still the Olympic medals have their value. If NHL doesn't participate in next Olympics, some ice hockey players will still be proud Olympic medalists and no HFBoards-whiner can take those medals away by useless whining how it was no "best-on-best".

I'd definitely watch Olympics without NHL players and still rank it over World Cup. World Cup may have better players and it's built to entertain NA masses, but sports is not just about parity and maximizing the cash flow. It's easy to forget that if one has got used to North American sport leagues, where sports is just a tool to make business.
 
[mod] Almost everyone was watching cause it was the Olympics. NHL players help make it more legit but if it wasn't the Olympics it would be no where near that popular. You'll see with this tournament.

If the NHL leaves the Olympics Ill be watching the Leafs over Team Canada in 2018.

I wont be alone.
 
They're all exhibition games, right to the end.

That would be a plus if all were national teams.

Bolded parts for the win.

Arguably so.

I look forward to seeing Sweden and Finland merged into one team for the next Bettman Cup. Just think of how competitive it will be! Hard to see how anyone could argue against it.

As I said in another thread in a sarcastic way, following this logic, the best ever tournament would be a best-of-51 series between a Team North America and a Team Rest of the World, played on games going for 5 periods (with period 4 played 4vs4, period 5 played 3vs3), with 6 full lines for each team and mandatory goalie change for each period.
#omgbestonbest #moargoals

That is why an international tournament at nations level should never be organized by the NHL: not only they don't know what international hockey means to nations & their fans, but they don't care about it. The objective is pure $$$ and nothing else, that is why they tend to transform this sport into hockey's version of Stars on Ice.

Then let's replace the Edmonton Oilers and Toronto Maple Leafs with TNA U-24 and Team Europe for the coming NHL season.

Better hockey, right?

Exactly! :laugh:

Outside of Canada/North America no one even remembers these. The players seem to care and the games are real fun to watch but you cant compare this to the Olympics.

That is exactly the case in Switzerland for sure. I would actually say that the knowledge of the average fans about these tournaments is that they existed, simply. That's pretty much it. And consider that people here are nuts about hockey.

It's more free flowing cause the players don't care.

The olympics MATTER so they are a lot more hesitant and defensive.

It is pre season hockey, after all. :laugh:

Really?

So say Canada wins a thriller over Sweden in the final. Next year you go to Sweden and start bragging about how awesome that game was, we'll see how you feel when the only reply you get is "Huh?".

If only one country cares about the "world" cup, it's not a world cup. It's a joke.

Yes. :)

By the way, for curiosity, I searched the TV Guide here to see if there was any of it on. On around 250-300 channels, none of these pre World Cup games are shown.
I found two games, one Saturday, one Sunday of the actual World Cup, but I am not sure if that's a pay per view channel or what. As a matter of fact, I am not sure if it's even a standard channel but instead maybe it's part of some extra package (here they will show you the listing but if you click on it, you get a message to subscribe).
If it was the Olympics, it would have been on all channels.

WC is nothing compared to Olympics. Even in Europe 99% of common folks don't even know that such an event is going on. Talk Asia/Africa we get approximately to 100% Only nation WC matters to is Canadians. An Olympian gold medal is recognized all around the world by most of the population. WC is just an NHL exhibition show for hockey fanatics.

Big time. I would say mostly NORTH AMERICAN hockey fanatics.

This is a worthless exhibition tournament without any national pride, created just to make money. Olympics >> WHC =WHJC > domestic leagues >>>>>>> "world cup"

My same thinking.
 
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That would change the perception for sure. But as one very famous hockey person in CZ said, WC follows interest of private financial entity, OG is global thing. Despite IOC behaviour you still have Coubertin, olympic villages....Its uncomparable. WC is for fanatics.

Perception - yes of course it would change, props to you for not denying what is obvious. If say Sweden were to win, Swedes will say of course it's an important tournament etc. while the Finns will scoff at the idea. ;) As long as they don't win, they'll keep saying it doesn't matter. As a Canadian, I don't really have a bias. Canada/World Cups or OG, it doesn't matter, we win most of them but not all of them so in that sense I'm as objective as can be.

Fanatics - that's one way of putting it I guess, OG is watched worldwide but many of those people aren't even fans, they tune to see what the fuss is about and then tune out for the next 4 years. To them, the quality of play doesn't matter. To fanatics who know the game it's a different story.

No question OG reaches more people, if that's the criteria OG wins no problem. To me though, I don't really care about the fact that people who don't know squat about hockey know who won the OG hockey gold but don't know the World Cup exists. That proves more people know about it but it hardly proves it's a better tournament.

To me, World Cups of old >> OG >> This World Cup. And the OG will always be a few notches below what it could be as long as they decide things via shootout.

When talking about Olympics many people forget that it's not just about USA (or Canada). Olympics exposes ice hockey to whole sports world whereas World Cup is basically only about showcasing NHL players to North American spectators. Most people in the world couldn't care less if NHL players are missing from Olympics. They wouldn't notice the difference in game play either, and I claim that most of the hockey fans themselves wouldn't notice either. It's the same for me if I watch Olympic handball. Why should I care if top end talent is not playing because I can't notice the difference and the participating players are competing for the medals, not those who are out.

From business point of view it would be problem for IOC to not have NHL players in Olympics, but otherwise it's not a problem. Countries will send teams to Olympics anyway and best teams of the tournament will get medals. Tournament proves which team was best and nothing else. A tournament never proves which country is best in hockey, even though many fans also on this forum try to believe so.

Olympic medal has its value regardless of who was in and who was out. Many Russian athletes were out of Rio, and still the Olympic medals have their value. If NHL doesn't participate in next Olympics, some ice hockey players will still be proud Olympic medalists and no HFBoards-whiner can take those medals away by useless whining how it was no "best-on-best".

I'd definitely watch Olympics without NHL players and still rank it over World Cup. World Cup may have better players and it's built to entertain NA masses, but sports is not just about parity and maximizing the cash flow. It's easy to forget that if one has got used to North American sport leagues, where sports is just a tool to make business.

If you don't think hockey fans notice the quality of play then I understand your point of view. You're wrong though. :)
 
I'll let you know when Europe starts scheduling events in the middle of the night for North Americans.

What do you think a 1200 GMT start time in the Pacific Time Zone is? It's the middle of the night. Get up early on a day off? You go to bed early! No, you stay up late! Hey, what about us Russians?!? Ugh.

You realize it's a lot easier to schedule something a few hours earlier than a few hours later?

The equivalent of a 0100 "sunday" game for us would be a 1300 game for you (in a UTC-4 zone). That's maybe a little inconvinient to watch the game on bright daylight, but a lot better than the opposite, which is either take monday off or spend it as a sleep deprieved zombie. For a game to start at 1900 in NA, as the final on sunday does, it would need to be scheduled on 0100 here in europe. That's impossible.

The NHL is like, "hey we have this cool "World" Cup thing, international competition and all".
"You know what, how about scheduling the finals in a way the majority of the fans of the participating teams won't be able to watch live?"
"Brilliant idea, should grow the product immensely".
Edith just said: "Well they could at least watch highlights on the greatest website of all, NHL.com"

The finals start on a Tuesday and could end on Thursday or Saturday. What time is a few hours earlier here in the Pacific Time Zone where they are actually trying to build a real life NHL franchise? Do you think it is coincidence that the NHL is adding an expansion team after the World Cup? Or has it happened before? Has the World Cup's goal always been to help grow the game in the US? The goal is not to sell Europe hockey it is to sell it here first in the markets where they plan to expand.
 
What do you think a 1200 GMT start time in the Pacific Time Zone is? It's the middle of the night. Get up early on a day off? You go to bed early! No, you stay up late! Hey, what about us Russians?!? Ugh.

12.00? That must be on weekends, if a game starts 7 PM GMT that's 2 PM ET or 11 AM PT. Is this somehow supposed to be equal to the 1 AM - 4 AM starting times European NHL fans are living with?

At worst, you'd miss the games because you are at work. Still, anyone who has the day off can watch. That's no different from my life working evenings and thus missing all sorts of Swedish/European events, sports and other entertainment. When I work, I can't watch. When I'm free, I can. That's just life.
 
I think in terms of quality of hockey this will be among the tops.

The Olympics will remain more substantial, I think if they implement a qualifying process and eliminate team Europe and team NA it will be more widely accepted with international importance.

But I don't give a **** about that, I'm a narrow sighted American and could give **** all about the rest of you schmucks. This tournament will be plenty enjoyable for me, I'm not gonna miss a single game.
 
But I don't give a **** about that, I'm a narrow sighted American and could give **** all about the rest of you schmucks. This tournament will be plenty enjoyable for me, I'm not gonna miss a single game.

I appreciate the honesty :D

But when USA wins this tournament, wouldn't you wish the world watched?
 
I appreciate the honesty :D

But when USA wins this tournament, wouldn't you wish the world watched?

Meh, I'm watching this for my entertainment. Whether or not anyone else cares USA won won't affect my appreciation of the victory.
 
Meh, I'm watching this for my entertainment. Whether or not anyone else cares USA won won't affect my appreciation of the victory.

Same here. Speaking as a Canadian, Canada/World Cup wins have been every bit as meaningful as Olympic wins, the fact that less people are watching in no way diminishes the accomplishment. So people in China/Africa/Australia aren't aware the tournament even happened, good for them, why should I care?
 
Same here. Speaking as a Canadian, Canada/World Cup wins have been every bit as meaningful as Olympic wins, the fact that less people are watching in no way diminishes the accomplishment. So people in China/Africa/Australia aren't aware the tournament even happened, good for them, why should I care?

How many tune into Olympic hockey pre-round robin though? I'd World Cup ratings held up pretty good, given that they have just been exhibition so far.
 
Same here. Speaking as a Canadian, Canada/World Cup wins have been every bit as meaningful as Olympic wins, the fact that less people are watching in no way diminishes the accomplishment. So people in China/Africa/Australia aren't aware the tournament even happened, good for them, why should I care?

I'm talking about the hockey world here, not about China or Africa.

So you beat Sweden in the finals, but you don't care that barely any Swedes watch?

I mean, if my Ducks are going to eliminate the Kings in the WC finals, I'd feel more "proud" about it if I knew Kings fans cared. Maybe that's just me.
 
So far the hockey has been far superior to the last Olympic games. The Olympics suffers from two things that the World Cup does not, it has NHL sized rinks which produce far more entertaining hockey, and it has less bad teams, which means there is less trapping and surviving games.

The last Olympics really suffered badly from this. I would say that there were only 2, maybe 3 teams that used an attack strategy. It was really discouraging to see even a team like Sweden play a no attack style. Makes for boring, uninspired, hockey. Sochi was probably the least entertaining hockey I have ever seen, and my favourite all time team won every game and the entire tournament.

The World Cup this year on the other hand killed off a lot of no good trapping teams, (all the small European countries). It also has smaller ice which reduces the collapse lay and pray defense.
 
How many tune into Olympic hockey pre-round robin though? I'd World Cup ratings held up pretty good, given that they have just been exhibition so far.

I honestly don't know, I don't really study TV ratings. I imagine OG hockey would get better ratings but the gap would be smaller in Canada than other places.

I'm talking about the hockey world here, not about China or Africa.

So you beat Sweden in the finals, but you don't care that barely any Swedes watch?

I mean, if my Ducks are going to eliminate the Kings in the WC finals, I'd feel more "proud" about it if I knew Kings fans cared. Maybe that's just me.

Nope, don't care. You have said that you have no problem watching so what's stopping others? If they watch or don't watch, that's up to them. If they don't watch they're the ones missing out, this has no impact on me whatsoever.

If and when Canada wins, I'll be proud. I'll be even more proud if someone gives us a tough fight. If Swedish fans don't care much, that just tells me they don't have as much appreciation for hockey as we Canadians do (and there's nothing wrong with that). I know the Swedish players care though and that's plenty. :D
 
I have no doubt in my mind that if the Olympics switched to amateurs, a USA/Canada final would get more ratings the WCH equivalent. Because it's the Olympics.

Ummmm maybe but it would turn it into any other Olympic sport that is on for me were I just watch it because it's on.

Not something I had to watch like when all the best players are playing hockey in the Olympics.

Probably watch snowboarding or bobsleigh or something instead if it was on. If an oilers game was on at the same time I would watch that.

If the chl released its players I would probably watch some games to see how the Canadian prospects look
 
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How many tune into Olympic hockey pre-round robin though? I'd World Cup ratings held up pretty good, given that they have just been exhibition so far.

Hard to tune into games that don't exist.

This tournament is very unlikely to match the ratings from the 2010 Olympics (best comparable, given time zones) but I fail to see how ratings prove that one thing is better than another thing, which is the subject here. The event is the event, regardless of how many watch it on TV.
 
winning some random World Cup has way less meaning to me than winning an Olympic gold medal so this will never be the same as the Olympics

but I do love the fact the final is a best of 3
 

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