World cup is better than Olympics

[Elvs]

Nope, don't care. You have said that you have no problem watching so what's stopping others? If they watch or don't watch, that's up to them. If they don't watch they're the ones missing out, this has no impact on me whatsoever.

If and when Canada wins, I'll be proud. I'll be even more proud if someone gives us a tough fight. If Swedish fans don't care much, that just tells me they don't have as much appreciation for hockey as we Canadians do (and there's nothing wrong with that). I know the Swedish players care though and that's plenty.

I have never said I wasn't gonna watch the World Cup. Like many others, North Americans included, I have issues with the format of the tournament. That doesn't mean I won't watch. If I have complaints about my car being broken, it doesn't mean I want it tossed in the scrapyard. It means I want it to be fixed.

Just because a lot of people can't watch a final between Sweden and Canada at 2 AM, it doesn't mean they don't appreciate hockey. Just like swizz or slovaks may still appreciate hockey, even if they won't get behind the Team Europe concept.

 

[Jussi]

I have no doubt in my mind that if the Olympics switched to amateurs

They'd go back to using pros from Europe.

 

[holyprime]

The finals start on a Tuesday and could end on Thursday or Saturday. What time is a few hours earlier here in the Pacific Time Zone where they are actually trying to build a real life NHL franchise?

Yes sure, you should consider everybody. I'm not suggesting it should start at 1300 to cater to europeans, but they could easily find a middle ground if they would actually try. And its not like it wouldn't be in their best interest (more than half the teams are from europe) or it couldn't be done in different sports (like the US Open recently).

Do you think it is coincidence that the NHL is adding an expansion team after the World Cup? Or has it happened before? Has the World Cup's goal always been to help grow the game in the US? The goal is not to sell Europe hockey it is to sell it here first in the markets where they plan to expand.

My biggest gripe with this invitational is exactly this: It's a marketing ploy and a cash-grab for the NHL and probably a vehicle to weasel out of the Olympics as well.

Actually it would be perfectly fine if they would call it as it is. If the media here reports about it (very rarely until now) they call it NHL-WM (Weltmeisterschaft, which basically means world cup) for instance.
But the NHL struts around, praises it as an international tournament and what not, while even alienating a big chunk of their own fanbase by dumbing it down so it can fit the NHL players exclusive (almost) narrative. It's just too much hypocrisy to host a "world cup" and then force said world to watch it at horribly inconvinient times or not at all.

 

[Slimmy]

It has its charm with the novelty factor of Team NA but this has nowhere close to the incredible feel and intensity of the Olympics. I am sure the coaches and players feel the same as well. This still should be a very entertaining tournament nonetheless.

If this was the Olympics and Sweden played any of the big hockey powers at, lets mid day, people would stop what they are doing at work to watch. They'd roll in TVs to the classrooms. Someone would hold they're iPad up on the train so people can gather round to watch.
Can you ever imagine that happening for a World Cup game?

 

[CrypTic]

I'll let you know when Europe starts scheduling events in the middle of the night for North Americans.

Do you mean like the Olympics in Sochi? I had to watch ice hockey at 1 or 3 AM several times. If I didn't want to do that, I could have recorded the events and watched them at a time that was more convenient for me.

There is no time that's convenient for everyone in Europe and NA and that's ignoring Japan if you're talking about the Olympics. They schedule events at times that are at least somewhat convenient and designed to work for most viewers in the time zone in which the event is held (or for nearby population centers, especially areas in the host country). They don't schedule it for when those viewers are likely to be at work or asleep. Big fans of the sport in the rest of the world will watch live even if it's at an inconvenient time. More casual fans will watch it later when it's convenient for them. Some ppl will only watch if it's live or is replayed by the network when it's convenient.

 

[Xokkeu]

I appreciate the honesty

But when USA wins this tournament, wouldn't you wish the world watched?

World, wish America would watch.

 

[Confucius]

What is the difference? Exhibition games vs pre-exhibition games?

Well in pre exhibition if you're down by 2 goals so what you're not going to bust your balls trying to tie it up. Players have already made the team so they're not going to go the extra mile to stop or make a play. In the exhibition that counts things would be different.

It is all just exhibition if that's what your getting at. Even regular season and playoffs. Just an exhibition of hockey skill.

The only difference is if we are counting the games won for some type of reward or honour. If not pre exhibition games are the same level as practices. Who cares who won that game?

I have never witnessed a sense of urgency in a pre exhibition type game where points were not allocated toward a prize.

 

[FVM]

I have no doubt in my mind that if the Olympics switched to amateurs, a USA/Canada final would get more ratings the WCH equivalent. Because it's the Olympics.

Amateurs??

 

[BruinLVGA]

Amateurs??

He probably means anyone who isn't in the NHL...

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

It wont compare to bringing home the GOLD from the Olympics. Go look at videos from when the Czechs brought home the gold from Nagano. Everyone partied for 3 days straight and there wasnt a single person in that country that didn't know about it.

Compare it to this tournament, except for people who follow hockey, no one in the Czech republic even knows this thing is going on.

Not to take away anything from the WHC but they are just not on the same level.

You don't say! The excitement level was greater
after the team won the Gold medal than the start of this event?!? So obviously the WC is crap, amirite?

The Olympics is obviously more important due to the history and prestige, That being said, I expect I will enjoy the WC more because the actual hockey itself will be better because the teams have actually been able to practice, no B/S rules, and better refereeing.

And I am the only person who doesn't care that there isn't more buzz. Hockey is a niche sport, and will almost certainly stay that for the forseeable future. Why does it matter that this is primarily a fan focused event - isn't that what all sports are at the core?

 

[FVM]

He probably means anyone who isn't in the NHL...

Yeah. Just such an ignorant thing to say. And I've heard many times North Americans saying "Olympics should be for amateurs anyway". Like it means something. What amateurs? Where do you pull them from? It also implies other athletes there are amateurs, which again, is embarrassingly ignorant.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

The Olympics are staged every now and then in North America - and in Europe. The WC even with proper teams would always be played in front of Canadian homecrowds, on small ice with NHL rules and referees. It's just not comparable, at all.

Btw, as regards the small ice - especially with elite teams and high tempo play the game becomes some sort of hysterical version of a pinball machine with pretty much only one player type dominating, smaller sized players need not apply except in few cases. Large ice can lead to more conservative game, yes, but it also allows many types of play and players. In my view though a universal hybrid ice would be ideal, a compromise between North America and Europe.

Not sure if you were aware but the guy who led the NHL in scoring last year probably actually weighs 85 KG, and another guy in the top 6 was probably 80KG.

 

[Xokkeu]

Amateurs??

I read that as a hypothetical statement that the Olympics would still draw more regardless of who's playing in it. Not a statement that without the NHL the Olympics would revert to amateur players.

 

[Osprey]

Amateurs??

He probably means anyone who isn't in the NHL...

The old teams were composed mostly of amateurs. The 1980 Miracle on Ice team, particularly, was about 2/3rds college players. There were some IHL and AHL players in there, but the teams were mostly amateurs, so I don't see why you'd give him a hard time for using that term. I think that most of us knew what he meant.

Yeah. Just such an ignorant thing to say. And I've heard many times North Americans saying "Olympics should be for amateurs anyway". Like it means something. What amateurs? Where do you pull them from? It also implies other athletes there are amateurs, which again, is embarrassingly ignorant.

Asking where you'd pull the amateurs from when 2/3rds of the Miracle on Ice team came from college seems to me like the ignorant thing to say, to be honest.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

The only thing silly about this world cup are the gimmicky hodgepodge teams.

If you don't have enough players to ice rosters from other countries, don't just cram them on to one team and give them a participation award, same with the North American team.

 

[FVM]

The old teams were compared mostly of amateurs. The 1980 Miracle on Ice team, particularly, was about 2/3rds college players. There were some IHL and AHL players in there, but the teams were mostly amateurs, so I don't see why you'd give him a hard time for using that term. I think that most of us knew what he meant.



Asking where you'd pull the amateurs from when 2/3rds of the Miracle on Ice team came from college seems to me like the ignorant thing to say, to be honest.

That was 36 years ago. If NHL pulled out of Olympics, the teams would consist of other pros. KHL, SEL, Liiga, NLA, AHL... so yes, if anyone mentions amateurs as an alternative to NHL participation, they deserve to be called out.

 

[CrypTic]

I read that as a hypothetical statement that the Olympics would still draw more regardless of who's playing in it. Not a statement that without the NHL the Olympics would revert to amateur players.

That's how I read it as well. I.e., even if the Olympics only allowed amateurs to compete, it would still have more viewers bc it's the Olympics.

 

[JackSlater]

The only thing silly about this world cup are the gimmicky hodgepodge teams.

If you don't have enough players to ice rosters from other countries, don't just cram them on to one team and give them a participation award, same with the North American team.

Yes, the tournament has several positives. The gimmick teams are the issue.

 

[Big Phil]

Sorry, it is not better than the Olympics. There was no reason for it not to be, but the NHL had their gimmicky format. I am very Jekyl and Hyde with this tournament. On one hand I want to see Canada win every game and am excited for that and on the other hand I am constantly reminded in the media - who does a good job out of convincing us the format is awesome - that there is the North American team and Europe team. Then I get ticked off. The reason being is that Canada may very well play North America in the final, or semi final and it would take a once great tournament and make it a laughing stock.

The only hope for this tournament is that both Europe and North America teams tank so that neither are in the semis. That would help a bit but you are still left with the fact that McDavid should have been on Team Canada along with Ekblad and the Americans are missing a lot of talent on their team as well.

So yeah, I am trying so desperately hard to pretend this is just like the 1987 Canada Cup type of excitement...............until I realize that Mario Lemieux wouldn't have been on that team with this format.

So yeah, the Olympics are better. Sorry, they are. Up until this year they were both equal but the NHL screwed it up.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Yeah. Just such an ignorant thing to say. And I've heard many times North Americans saying "Olympics should be for amateurs anyway". Like it means something. What amateurs? Where do you pull them from? It also implies other athletes there are amateurs, which again, is embarrassingly ignorant.

Yes, it's true ignorance (as in lack of knowledge). Those who say that, think that the only hockey pro league is the NHL and the rest of the world is basically savages.

The old teams were composed mostly of amateurs. The 1980 Miracle on Ice team, particularly, was about 2/3rds college players. There were some IHL and AHL players in there, but the teams were mostly amateurs, so I don't see why you'd give him a hard time for using that term. I think that most of us knew what he meant.

Asking where you'd pull the amateurs from when 2/3rds of the Miracle on Ice team came from college seems to me like the ignorant thing to say, to be honest.

The USA + Canada = 2 teams ONLY.

2 teams in a competition where there was a total of 8 or more teams (Sweden, Finland, Czechoslovakia / Czech / Slovakia, West Germany / Germany, USSR / Russia, etc etc) =/= all the teams or even most teams.

Therefore, if 1 or 2 teams (out of 8 or more) all of a sudden don't have the pros from their top pro league (the NHL) participating at the tournament =/= the tournament becomes "for amateurs".
On the contrary, the national teams of all non-NA nations are made of players from the pro leagues of each nation. Those leagues have been pro for a long time now, my guess would be from the 50s or at the latest early 60s (FYI, there's no hockey college teams in Europe. Not one).
So, saying that the Olympics without the NHL players' participation would mean that the tournament would become "for amateurs" is a truly ignorant & laughable statement.

The Miracle on Ice team of 1980 isn't a "miracle" because a bunch of amateurs beat another bunch of amateurs. It's a miracle because a bunch of amateurs beat some of the, if not THE, best pros in the world.
And please don't tell me that the Soviets were amateurs. Officially they were officers in the Red Army & playing for the RA's hockey team, CSKA Moscow, while a few were police officers & playing for the police's hockey team, Spartak Moscow. I guarantee you that not one of them was leading army battalions or handing out parking tickets in Moscow...

 

[Seanaconda]

That's how I read it as well. I.e., even if the Olympics only allowed amateurs to compete, it would still have more viewers bc it's the Olympics.

But if you took away pros it would get rid of like every good player in every sport.

It would probably have good viewership still because tv forces the Olympics on you and every sports and news channel is Olympic coverage for those 2 weeks.

But people wanna watch their countries best compete against the other countries best in the Olympics.

Or even just the best imagine if Phelps and bolt couldn't compete once they started making money.

 

[KCC]

Only Canada vs US have been exciting. To me, every other game has been pretty lackluster. But it is exhibition and it will ramp up soon.

 

[Jussi]

The old teams were composed mostly of amateurs. The 1980 Miracle on Ice team, particularly, was about 2/3rds college players. There were some IHL and AHL players in there, but the teams were mostly amateurs, so I don't see why you'd give him a hard time for using that term. I think that most of us knew what he meant.

1988, '92 and '94 pretty much everyone was a pro in the European teams. I dare you to find and amateur from for example, the Finnish and Swedish teams at the Lillehammer games.

 

[Cellee]

The Olympics is an international event so it is automatically more relevant.

The World Cup is a farce.

 

[CrypTic]

But if you took away pros it would get rid of like every good player in every sport.

It would probably have good viewership still because tv forces the Olympics on you and every sports and news channel is Olympic coverage for those 2 weeks.

But people wanna watch their countries best compete against the other countries best in the Olympics.

Or even just the best imagine if Phelps and bolt couldn't compete once they started making money.

No one is proposing that they do that. It's a statement about how strong viewership is for the Olympics, nothing more. It seems to me that ppl are reading a lot into it that isn't there.