World cup is better than Olympics

[Scotty B]

There's a whole lot of issues, but the IOC and IIHF are not the same entity.

Yeah I know but the Olympic ( Ice ) Hockey tourney is run thru the Auspices of BOTH

 

[Xokkeu]

Yeah I know but the Olympic ( Ice ) Hockey tourney is run thru the Auspices of BOTH

Yes but when people say the IOC/IIHF don't want to pay insurance, that is wrong. The IIHF has always been willing to pay. The IOC is the one fussing about insurance and TV rights etc.

 

[hitmen19]

What gives a tournament excitement is how many people care about it. When you have 30 million Americans, 15 million Canadians, people who aren't sports fans, tuning in, that's excitement.

I disagree to be honest. Excitement in terms of play don't matter how many people are watching. I was watching Russia vs NA yesterday, and the game was way more exciting then 90% of the games in Sochi. While I was watching, it didn't matter to me how many other people were watching, I was enjoying the talent in the game. Not saying it meant more then the games in Sochi, but as a hockey game product, It was more exciting

 

[Xokkeu]

Yeah most leaf games only compete against basketball not football.

Weird time for hockey for a lot of people. And yes Olympics will always be higher because you can't find a channel that isn't showing the Olympics unless you want to watch cartoons.

I have no doubt that the average to hard core hockey fan is enjoying this tournament.

 

[Xokkeu]

I disagree to be honest. Excitement in terms of play don't matter how many people are watching. I was watching Russia vs NA yesterday, and the game was way more exciting then 90% of the games in Sochi. While I was watching, it didn't matter to me how many other people were watching, I was enjoying the talent in the game. Not saying it meant more then the games in Sochi, but as a hockey game product, It was more exciting

I mean I personally found my NHL 17 game last night to be the most exciting game of the night. Was yelling and screaming the whole time.

 

[hitmen19]

I mean I personally found my NHL 17 game last night to be the most exciting game of the night. Was yelling and screaming the whole time.

lol, and your entitled to that. I didn't say my enjoyment of something is the same for everybody. Some people think award shows are exciting, and numbers would show that. Doesn't mean I think their exciting.

And frankly, If I don't find them exciting, I don't sit on the award show forums saying how boring they are

 

[Xokkeu]

lol, and your entitled to that. I didn't say my enjoyment of something is the same for everybody. Some people think award shows are exciting, and numbers would show that. Doesn't mean I think their exciting.

And frankly, If I don't find them exciting, I don't sit on the award show forums saying how boring they are

I know I was just making a joke. Nothing wrong with enjoying the games. I weirdly find myself caring about Team North America more than Team USA since I've watched all those guys since they were like 15-16.

 

[Seanaconda]

lol, and your entitled to that. I didn't say my enjoyment of something is the same for everybody. Some people think award shows are exciting, and numbers would show that. Doesn't mean I think their exciting.

And frankly, If I don't find them exciting, I don't sit on the award show forums saying how boring they are

You should it seems to be quite enjoyable to alot of people to tell people that what they enjoy is stupid

 

[JackSlater]

Let's not hate it until they don't.

And if the IOC doesn't pay blame them. The nhl has no reason to pay to have their players go get injured and stop their season.

Since the NHL already positioned the success of this tournament as a threat to NHL participation in the Olympics, I think I will continue to dislike it right now instead of waiting. I wish that was the only issue though. If the IOC issue isn't resolved, then yes the IOC deserves a massive amount of blame for the NHL leaving the Olympics.

 

[Seanaconda]

Since the NHL already positioned the success of this tournament as a threat to NHL participation in the Olympics, I think I will continue to dislike it right now instead of waiting. I wish that was the only issue though. If the IOC issue isn't resolved, then yes the IOC deserves a massive amount of blame for the NHL leaving the Olympics.

With a lockout already scheduled right after the Olympics I can't see the nhl not sending it's players unless they have to pay.

Probably don't wanna piss off the players association if they can help it.

 

[Jussi]

Yes but when people say the IOC/IIHF don't want to pay insurance, that is wrong. The IIHF has always been willing to pay. The IOC is the one fussing about insurance and TV rights etc.

I don't know about their stance in the Olympics but at the Worlds, the national federations always insure the players.

 

[Seanaconda]

Bettman interview basically said if the IOC doesn't pay they aren't going

(Which is fair and makes sense)

 

[likid]

I wouldn't mind Olympics without NHL players.

Just imagine situation when Slovenia with seven ice-rings and 100 male ice-hockey players beat Canada AHL team...

We would remember even 50 years from now and nobody would mind that there were no NHL players and everybody would have material to make jokes from Canada...

 

[BruinLVGA]

Bettman interview basically said if the IOC doesn't pay they aren't going

(Which is fair and makes sense)

Bettman would sell his entire family for $$$. Great.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I disagree to be honest. Excitement in terms of play don't matter how many people are watching. I was watching Russia vs NA yesterday, and the game was way more exciting then 90% of the games in Sochi. While I was watching, it didn't matter to me how many other people were watching, I was enjoying the talent in the game. Not saying it meant more then the games in Sochi, but as a hockey game product, It was more exciting

I feel the same. I've never understood these people who make so much out of how many people are watching, doesn't change what takes place on the ice in the least bit. I think today's game between Sweden and NA will be amazing and I won't need to look up the viewership numbers after the fact to tell me how good the game was or wasn't.

Bettman interview basically said if the IOC doesn't pay they aren't going

(Which is fair and makes sense)

Yup.

Bettman would sell his entire family for $$$. Great.

You're being childish now. Bettman isn't some evil entity, in the end he represents the owners who are running a business so their decisions are largely influenced by financial considerations. Like it or not, we live in a capitalistic society. Perhaps you should read up on what that means because it doesn't seem like you get it.

 

[mattihp]

Bettman would sell his entire family for $$$. Great.

Absolutely. Robbing people of the best national team hockey there is.. Is the same to me.

And like giving a gold medal for free to Russia.

 

[hitmen19]

Absolutely. Robbing people of the best national team hockey there is.. Is the same to me.

And like giving a gold medal for free to Russia.

so why aren't you mad at the IOC who gets 90% of the benefits of not putting in some money to cover travel and insurance? Why would you expect the NHL to shut down its league for 2 weeks, pay every conceivable bill, which is going to run into the 10 million to insure those est 120 players multi million contracts, etc

and yet its all the NHL if they don't go. How come your not venting the IOC who makes a **** load of money off the Olympics but can't cover some bills to bring the athletes there?

 

[Jussi]

so why aren't you mad at the IOC who gets 90% of the benefits of not putting in some money to cover travel and insurance? Why would you expect the NHL to shut down its league for 2 weeks, pay every conceivable bill, which is going to run into the 10 million to insure those est 120 players multi million contracts, etc

and yet its all the NHL if they don't go. How come your not venting the IOC who makes a **** load of money off the Olympics but can't cover some bills to bring the athletes there?

IOC gets 10% of the Olympic revenue.

 

[BruinLVGA]

You're being childish now. Bettman isn't some evil entity, in the end he represents the owners who are running a business so their decisions are largely influenced by financial considerations. Like it or not, we live in a capitalistic society. Perhaps you should read up on what that means because it doesn't seem like you get it.

Gary... Not everything in life must have a $$$ counterpart at all costs. It's not always "X must equal Y dobloons". Every human endeavor is not always a search for profit.

The owners are a bunch of billionaires running a very profitable business (the NHL) already. And here they're trying to worsen the most storied competition in the world for $10 million. Basically 300 grand each. Peanuts to them. Is it worth it? I don't think so.
Sure, I guess the IOC could easily retain $10m from what they distribute to the national federations. However, I think that those 10 million would have more impact on the national federations than on 30 billionaire. That money to the federations would help cover costs needed purely for hockey reasons. 300 grand each would maybe mean that each wife of said billionaires would maybe get a ring with a 20 carat diamond instead of 25 for Christmas. Maybe.

But the real reason is not the $10m. That's the excuse. The idea is that they want the whole pie themselves, those fat cats. Like they needed more fattening, right?

 

[Gary Nylund]

In red:

Gary... Not everything in life must have a $$$ counterpart at all costs. It's not always "X must equal Y dobloons". Every human endeavor is not always a search for profit.

Well duh. I'm afraid the NHL is a business though, not a charity. Do you understand the difference between the two?

The owners are a bunch of billionaires running a very profitable business (the NHL) already. And here they're trying to worsen the most storied competition in the world for $10 million. Basically 300 grand each. Peanuts to them. Is it worth it? I don't think so.

It's so easy to spend other people's money isn't it.

Sure, I guess the IOC could easily retain $10m from what they distribute to the national federations. However, I think that those 10 million would have more impact on the national federations than on 30 billionaire. That money to the federations would help cover costs needed purely for hockey reasons. 300 grand each would maybe mean that each wife of said billionaires would maybe get a ring with a 20 carat diamond instead of 25 for Christmas. Maybe.

But the real reason is not the $10m. That's the excuse. The idea is that they want the whole pie themselves, those fat cats. Like they needed more fattening, right?

I don't think this forum is an appropriate place to argue the pros and cons of socialism. [MOD]

 

[BruinLVGA]

In red:

Cheap sarcasm isn't a legitimate answer to any question / issue. It is the easy way out for those who have no answers. It only makes you look incredibly weak. Suit yourself though.

The thing is that these $10m are peanuts for 30 billionaires, but very serious coin for national federations. This is an objective fact.

And while a subjective opinion, I really don't think that it's anything but an excuse for these billionaires & Bettman to make a grab for international tournaments. And it doesn't matter to them if in the process they make hockey worse for EVERYONE else outside the NHL by trying to damage the most storied & important competition in the whole world.

The fact that you don't care either is a) incomprehensible because I don't think you are in line for a payout from the World Cup (why do you worry so much about these billionaires' income?) and b) the best hockey can become outside the USA, the better the chances of seeing a bigger influx of players from non North American countries into the NHL.
Maybe seeing their national players compete in the Olympics will help the next Josi take up hockey instead of going to play for one of the plethora of soccer teams & tune out the soccer overload that we have in Europe. Same situation in many other countries, even more so those not represented at the World Cup.
You are thinking "I want the fattest chicken today", but maybe you ought to worry instead about how to have an increased "egg" production tomorrow.

Can you understand this? Any of it?

 

[Trap Jesus]

I feel like there's not enough meat to this tournament. You can argue the Olympics goes overboard in that aspect where no one is eliminated after the round-robin, but the USA essentially being eliminated after their first game is kind of crazy (yes, it was because they were lined up against Canada in their 2nd game, but still). I feel like if they did something like this, it would have made things more interesting:

- 1st in Group A and B get byes to the semi-finals
- 2nd in Group A plays 3rd in group B in the quarterfinals; winner plays 1st in Group B in semi-finals
- 2nd in Group B plays 3rd in group A in the quarterfinals; winner plays 1st in Group A in semi-finals
- 4th in each group is eliminated after round-robin

Avoids the awkward situation like the games on the 22nd (likely) being completely meaningless.

 

[Xokkeu]

I feel like there's not enough meat to this tournament. You can argue the Olympics goes overboard in that aspect where no one is eliminated after the round-robin, but the USA essentially being eliminated after their first game is kind of crazy (yes, it was because they were lined up against Canada in their 2nd game, but still). I feel like if they did something like this, it would have made things more interesting:

- 1st in Group A and B get byes to the semi-finals
- 2nd in Group A plays 3rd in group B in the quarterfinals; winner plays 1st in Group B in semi-finals
- 2nd in Group B plays 3rd in group A in the quarterfinals; winner plays 1st in Group A in semi-finals
- 4th in each group is eliminated after round-robin

Avoids the awkward situation like the games on the 22nd (likely) being completely meaningless.

Maybe a better system but would likely have to ditch the best of 3

 

[Trap Jesus]

Maybe a better system but would likely have to ditch the best of 3

Yeah, maybe. It is just one extra day of play though, and only for half of the teams. 3 pre-tournament games seems a bit excessive. Strip it down to 2 and you're good.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Cheap sarcasm isn't a legitimate answer to any question / issue. It is the easy way out for those who have no answers. It only makes you look incredibly weak. Suit yourself though.

The thing is that these $10m are peanuts for 30 billionaires, but very serious coin for national federations. This is an objective fact.

And while a subjective opinion, I really don't think that it's anything but an excuse for these billionaires & Bettman to make a grab for international tournaments. And it doesn't matter to them if in the process they make hockey worse for EVERYONE else outside the NHL by trying to damage the most storied & important competition in the whole world.

The fact that you don't care either is a) incomprehensible because I don't think you are in line for a payout from the World Cup (why do you worry so much about these billionaires' income?) and b) the best hockey can become outside the USA, the better the chances of seeing a bigger influx of players from non North American countries into the NHL.
Maybe seeing their national players compete in the Olympics will help the next Josi take up hockey instead of going to play for one of the plethora of soccer teams & tune out the soccer overload that we have in Europe. Same situation in many other countries, even more so those not represented at the World Cup.
You are thinking "I want the fattest chicken today", but maybe you ought to worry instead about how to have an increased "egg" production tomorrow.

Can you understand this? Any of it?

Plenty of us here who are not billionaire fat cat oligarchs do not share your assertion that the olympics are so great so maybe bring it down a bit. The IOC is also awful, full of corrupt, arrogant aristocrats so I don't know why you are ranting so hard about NHL owners its not like the IOC is full of saints.

So your weird moral issues aside, from a purely hockey perspective I don't like the NHL season to be interrupted in February right when it is entering the final stretch so September is a better time. The hockey is better on NA ice, with NHL refs, and NHL rules. Also the hockey is better with only 8 teams who are all competitive so no joke countries like Danish and Swiss. In the future they can also spread the hosting around a bit more, even to share it between NA & Europe, something the Olympics can't do where every game will take place in some Asian places.