Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Meetings: Because there's no more fitting time to talk baseball than December

[p.l.f.]

In 592 AB's he had 32 walks and 64 K's. Hitting weak ground balls every AB does not make him a good player just cause the ball gets through 3/10ths of the time.

35 runs in 226 ab in 56gp
hit .319
great range defensively
I'll take that

 

[Blitzkrug]

Lovely.

What's the skinny on these sudden Davis rumors? Legit source?

I don't think i could be mad at that pick up if it happened, even if they need pitching more.

 

[Eyedea]

I've been reserving my thoughts trying to fully gauge how I really feel about how the offseason has gone.

First of all, I still think our offense is best in the league provided Tulo bounces back and has a season he's capable of having. That's like inserting a top 10 talent in the game in your lineup. Our offense alone can get us in the playoffs.

Now, the offseason so far has left a sour taste in my mouth because its been... unambitious, especially, considering our division rival has vastly improved and we have our new GM coming out saying our pitching rotation as it is, is good enough to contend.

This team is, at the very least, worst than last year's contending squad considering we've lost our ace, our backup catcher who could at least hit a little bit, and one of our better bullpen arms and all they're thinking about is replenishing our farm system. That stuff is done at the draft and international free agents. I'm beginning to get worried about this front office's conservative behavior.

Well yeah, they were 53-18 since the Tulo trade. That's a 120 win pace.

 

[Longshot]

Looks like the reason the Chapman trade is being delayed is that he reportedly was involved in a domestic incident where he allegedly choked his girlfriend and fired gunshots.

Really, like, when?

 

[LaCarriere]

I've been reserving my thoughts trying to fully gauge how I really feel about how the offseason has gone.

First of all, I still think our offense is best in the league provided Tulo bounces back and has a season he's capable of having. That's like inserting a top 10 talent in the game in your lineup. Our offense alone can get us in the playoffs.

Now, the offseason so far has left a sour taste in my mouth because its been... unambitious, especially, considering our division rival has vastly improved and we have our new GM coming out saying our pitching rotation as it is, is good enough to contend.

This team is, at the very least, worst than last year's contending squad considering we've lost our ace, our backup catcher who could at least hit a little bit, and one of our better bullpen arms and all they're thinking about is replenishing our farm system. That stuff is done at the draft and international free agents. I'm beginning to get worried about this front office's conservative behavior.

The rotation going into this year is better than going into last year.

Stroman / Estrada / Dickey / Happ / Chavez is so much better than Hutch / Dickey / Buehrle / Norris / Sanchez.

I hate to downplay Price, but when you look at the run support he got, there was maybe 1-2 games that they actually needed him, games they might have otherwise lost. His wins were 5-1, 6-0, 9-4, 12-4, 5-1, 11-5, 9-1, 4-2, 10-8. The two bolded are games they probably would have lost with a replacement level pitcher, and also by going the general rule that if you score 5+ runs you're probably going to win.

The way I see it, with this offence, Stroman is basically a legit #1 ace, and he's back for the whole season. He went 4-0 in the regular season after missing the whole season, with a full spring training he's going to be a beast.

 

[Mitchy]

Looks like the reason the Chapman trade is being delayed is that he reportedly was involved in a domestic incident where he allegedly choked his girlfriend and fired gunshots.

Really hope this doesn't turn out to be true.

 

[Canada4Gold]

35 runs in 226 ab in 56gp
hit .319
great range defensively
I'll take that

nope, average range, takes bad routes but his speed helps him make up for it to get back to average.

and now we get to list the negatives

- salary
- terrible arm
- average to bad OBP(especially for someone with a .300 average)
- no power

Don't get me wrong, he's an MLB starter, a good type of guy to have at the bottom of the lineup that gets hits, and has a bit of speed so can get in scoring position for the top of the order. But he doesn't get on base enough to lead off, has no power so you pretty much have to hit him last, and he's a liability defensively because of the arm. For 6.7 million that's not enough, especially for a team who's close to their budget.

and it seems like the league agrees because his value when traded last year was very little.

In our situation it makes way too much sense to trade him to make salary room, and use Pompey who can do pretty much the exact same job. We won't get much for him because his value is in the toilet due to the salary but if you can get a decent middle reliever for him then you take it.

 

[LaCarriere]

Couldn't they deal Smoak, Revere and Saunders and save about $13 or $14 million?

It would sap them of their depth, but would be feasible, if Davis is at $13 or 14 million in year one with years 2-5 back loaded.

I really doubt they move both Saunders and Revere, giving Pompey a starting job by default. He didn't earn anything more than a pinch runner spot on the team last year, I can't see them backing themselves into a corner by trading all their LF depth and forcing them to promote a AAA guy.

 

[one77]

Would much rather trade Revere, Dickey and sign Heyward instead of Davis. Makes more sense, he is younger, fills a hole in LF, but the contract will be bigger obviously.

 

[Longshot]

Lovely.

What's the skinny on these sudden Davis rumors? Legit source?

I don't think i could be mad at that pick up if it happened, even if they need pitching more.

To sum up:

Former Fan 590 reporter Howard Berger tweeted earlier today.

Mike Wilner then tweeted that the Berger's tweet was a joke and not to be taken seriously.

Another baseball reporter/blogger (I'm not familiar with him, but other posters said he's legit) tweeted something similar to what Berger said.

 

[Woodman19]

The only thing that gives me a little bit of pause is that this is coming out right when EE comes out with his deadline. Perhaps they have at least contacted his agent as a backup plan if they can't come to a deal with Edwin and instead trade him and sign Davis.

 

[Canada4Gold]

His GF doesn't want to leave Cincinnati?

Sorry, that's awful of me, she likely wouldn't make it up, which is unfortunate, it sounds really bad. Like if there's a gun involved your career is over and you go to jail bad.

 

[MJ65]

I've been reserving my thoughts trying to fully gauge how I really feel about how the offseason has gone.

First of all, I still think our offense is best in the league provided Tulo bounces back and has a season he's capable of having. That's like inserting a top 10 talent in the game in your lineup. Our offense alone can get us in the playoffs.

Now, the offseason so far has left a sour taste in my mouth because its been... unambitious, especially, considering our division rival has vastly improved and we have our new GM coming out saying our pitching rotation as it is, is good enough to contend.

This team is, at the very least, worst than last year's contending squad considering we've lost our ace, our backup catcher who could at least hit a little bit, and one of our better bullpen arms and all they're thinking about is replenishing our farm system. That stuff is done at the draft and international free agents. I'm beginning to get worried about this front office's conservative behavior.

That is the reality and that's I have been saying from the beginning and every one here was making fun of me and every one was so sarcastic

I am not sure what they are up to

 

[LaCarriere]

I've been surprised by these kinds of reactions to whatever it is that EE (or his people) said today.

I didn't see it as any kind of broadside against the Jays. I just read it as EE saying he is willing to talk about a contract extension to stay in Toronto, but he would like it wrapped up one way or another by the end of the spring.

I didn't really see it as a big deal. If I'm not mistaken, Jays management said last week they were going to circle back to Bautista and EE on contract extensions once their off season direction was closer to completion. To me, EE's response was: "I'm game, but I don't want it dragging on."

Somehow I don't think any EE said is adding any kind of urgency to how the Jays are conducting business. I doubt it has any affect on them at all.

Most players don't want the distraction of dealing with contract negotiations during the season -- I'm not sure why this is a surprise to anyone.

 

[Longshot]

I really doubt they move both Saunders and Revere, giving Pompey a starting job by default. He didn't earn anything more than a pinch runner spot on the team last year, I can't see them backing themselves into a corner by trading all their LF depth and forcing them to promote a AAA guy.

I was just illustrating there are ways to make it happen from a financial stand point that don't involve moving EE.

We should all remember that Beeston and AA always said they could go to ownership for more money if they felt the right deal for a significant player was on the table. It would be silly to think that Shapiro/Atkins don't have the same kind of arrangement.

Could Davis be that player? He's certainly a unique situation. Just because they wouldn't do it for Price doesn't mean they won't do it for somebody else.

 

[tml19]

Apparently the event happened in October... Reds knew about it

 

[Mitchy]

Would much rather trade Revere, Dickey and sign Heyward instead of Davis. Makes more sense, he is younger, fills a hole in LF, but the contract will be bigger obviously.

Or you can go to the MLB 15 route and just sign and trade Heyward to Cleveland for Carrasco.



But seriously, I'd love Heyward on the Jays and if somehow the Jays can spend a lot on a free agent, I'd want Heyward rather than Davis.

 

[LaCarriere]

I was just illustrating there are ways to make it happen from a financial stand point that don't involve moving EE.

We should all remember that Beeston and AA always said they could go to ownership for more money if they felt the right deal for a significant player was on the table. It would be silly to think that Shapiro/Atkins don't have the same kind of arrangement.

Could Davis be that player? He's certainly a unique situation. Just because they wouldn't do it for Price doesn't mean they won't do it for somebody else.

What I read earlier today was that Shapiro had asked for an increase to make it work, it wasn't a situation where they were moving players to try and make room for Davis -- if those rumors were even true who knows.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Apparently the event happened in October... Reds knew about it

Reds know about a potential crime allegation so they try to try him so he's someone else's problem?

Yeah that's pretty bad on their part as well

 

[zeke]

we aren't signing davis.

we aren't extending ee.

expect a couple of overpaid 3rd tier relievers worse than hendriks, with bautista and ee traded at the deadline.

 

[trellaine201]

Looks like the reason the Chapman trade is being delayed is that he reportedly was involved in a domestic incident where he allegedly choked his girlfriend and fired gunshots.

I was reading about this, why wouldn't they arrest him?

Can they still lay charges?

 

[trellaine201]

Reds know about a potential crime allegation so they try to try him so he's someone else's problem?

Yeah that's pretty bad on their part as well

Yah totally agree. Trying to pull the wool over other teams eyes. Dodgy business.

 

[Longshot]

What I read earlier today was that Shapiro had asked for an increase to make it work, it wasn't a situation where they were moving players to try and make room for Davis -- if those rumors were even true who knows.

You read that today? About Davis? Do you have a link?

If you think about it, signing Davis, qualifying EE next winter and letting him walk as a free agent would be a creative way to help the team now and re-stock the farm with an extra pick.

 

[MJ65]

we aren't signing davis.

we aren't extending ee.

expect a couple of overpaid 3rd tier relievers worse than hendriks, with bautista and ee traded at the deadline.

I hope not but seriously I am not sure what our management is up to

 

[p.l.f.]

nope, average range, takes bad routes but his speed helps him make up for it to get back to average.

and now we get to list the negatives

- salary
- terrible arm
- average to bad OBP(especially for someone with a .300 average)
- no power

Don't get me wrong, he's an MLB starter, a good type of guy to have at the bottom of the lineup that gets hits, and has a bit of speed so can get in scoring position for the top of the order. But he doesn't get on base enough to lead off, has no power so you pretty much have to hit him last, and he's a liability defensively because of the arm. For 6.7 million that's not enough, especially for a team who's close to their budget.

and it seems like the league agrees because his value when traded last year was very little.

In our situation it makes way too much sense to trade him to make salary room, and use Pompey who can do pretty much the exact same job. We won't get much for him because his value is in the toilet due to the salary but if you can get a decent middle reliever for him then you take it.

He's our best option as leadoff hitter until travis returns
i dont want pompey leading off to start the season. so it makes sense to keep revere for the first half