Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Discontent II: Discontent Harder

[Cor]

Article also re-mentions the Jays interest in Lorenzo Cain to play RF.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Just don't see them acquiring Yelich - it would cost too much.

 

[Garlando]

Yangervis Solarte and the Blue Jays’ Attempt to Thread the Needle | FanGraphs Baseball

Fangraphs take: "A Toronto team projected to finish almost 10 games worse than the best two teams in their division just improved their 2018 roster at a potential cost down the road. It might be a fine trade in a vacuum, but is it a well-timed one?"

 

[zeke]

just sign Cain.

 

[The Nemesis]

The apparent Yelich price is basically a non-starter for me. It's clear the marlins need a "win" after selling cheap on Stanton and Gordon. I wouldn' have any interest in being Jeter's rebound deal.

 

[zeke]

and then try and flip one of morales/pearce and some money for a solid SP.

 

[BlueForever75]

People just need to stop complaining. The Solarte deal is a great one. When you compare the two infielders going out (Goins, Barney) to the ones coming in (Diaz, Solarte) it isn't even close. Barney and Goins had a -0.9bWAR for the season last season. Solarte alone had a 1.3bWAR, outdoing the two regulars everyone is crying about. This doesn't include Diaz that only appeared in 50 games last season because of injury and toiled in the minors because others took his position when he got hurt and the Cardinals didn't look back. The previous season Diaz had 17 HRs to go along with .300AVG/.369 OBP.

I just cant stand people that are never happy. You all sound like my first wife always complaining about something. Either you want moves to improve your team??? Or you don't? If its the former, the team is improved with Diaz and Solarte. And believe me these are not the only deals that are going to happen. But an improvement is an improvement.

Improving on Bautista wont be difficult regardless of who you put in his spot. The better OF acquired would be preferable but in the end who ever steps in, the bench is better, OF will be better and with a little health the team will be better.

So stop complaining.

 

[hoc123]

Yangervis Solarte and the Blue Jays’ Attempt to Thread the Needle | FanGraphs Baseball

Fangraphs take: "A Toronto team projected to finish almost 10 games worse than the best two teams in their division just improved their 2018 roster at a potential cost down the road. It might be a fine trade in a vacuum, but is it a well-timed one?"

That wasn't there take at all. The authors take was, "Solarte’s combination of three affordable years and three usable gloves makes him a unique fit for a Blue Jays team stuck between competing in 2018 and 2020."

 

[hoc123]

and then try and flip one of morales/pearce and some money for a solid SP.

What would you consider solid?

 

[BlueForever75]

What would you consider solid?

Hammels in KC. Quality 5th starter that has averaged 160+ innings the past 5 seasons. Better then what we had last season there at a reasonable cost per season (5 million)

 

[phillipmike]

Yangervis Solarte and the Blue Jays’ Attempt to Thread the Needle | FanGraphs Baseball

Fangraphs take: "A Toronto team projected to finish almost 10 games worse than the best two teams in their division just improved their 2018 roster at a potential cost down the road. It might be a fine trade in a vacuum, but is it a well-timed one?"

When FG puts it that way it seems that the Jays moves are futile. But they have our 2018 rotation to put up 11.2 WAR compared to our injury plagued 2017 team's 10.7 WAR. They also have a top 5 bullpen in 2017 with a WAR of 5.8 to put up 2.2 WAR in 2018. Basically have Osuna going from 3 WAR to 1.3 WAR.

They are selling our pitching short. Especially if Martin is catching more games (even better catchers like Maile and Jansen), Tulo, Diaz, Solarte, Diaz and Urena in the middle infield improves defense over Goins and Barney. And Pillar, Hernandez and FA/trade/Alford is gonna be a better defensive OF than Pillar, Bautista and Pearce/Zeke.

Jays look like they are still poised to add a starter in the OF, a rotation piece and a pen piece.

They aren't just facing the Yankees and Red Sox. They get to beat up on Baltimore and Tampa too. And there is a wildcard spot to be had.

 

[Eyedea]

Not having to face Longoria a whole lot helps for sure

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

I don't really see much downside in the Solarte move. I mean there is nothing stopping the jays from trading him at any point over the next 3 years for a similar prospect if they do feel the need to throw in the towel. The only way this move looks bad is if Olivares learns to take a walk and can repeat his Lansing performance at the upper levels.

 

[Garlando]

That wasn't there take at all. The authors take was, "Solarte’s combination of three affordable years and three usable gloves makes him a unique fit for a Blue Jays team stuck between competing in 2018 and 2020."

"Unique is the key word in that sentence. The author Eno Sarris does mention that the contract and versatility makes Solarte a valuable glue guy for 2018 and maybe into 2020 when the next wave of talent in the minors should be MLB ready. It's a win-now move (hopefully for 3 years) for a bench player that cost them a prospect who isn't nothing when at this point, the Jays aren't real contenders.

"If he (Solarte) plays well into his early 30s, Solarte may end up playing the same role when the Jays’ next round of young studs are ready to go. It’s a cheap deal for three years, and he can play all over.
That’s probably enough of a reason to risk this type of prospect, even if the downside is that they may have just spent a young major-league regular in order to acquire a below-average stopgap third baseman who will play behind a traded Josh Donaldson as the team jumps more fully into a rebuild. That’s a fairly depressing downside, but you have to remember to put it up against the other two ways the new Jay can help."

That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the deal for the Jays even if he understands it.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I don't really see much downside in the Solarte move. I mean there is nothing stopping the jays from trading him at any point over the next 3 years for a similar prospect if they do feel the need to throw in the towel. The only way this move looks bad is if Olivares learns to take a walk and can repeat his Lansing performance at the upper levels.

I guess its just fear that Olivares will turn into something. Its somewhat similar to that time that Johermyn Chavez was going to come back and burn the Blue Jays.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Hammel is trending in a particularly bad direction. Wouldn't surprise me if his HR/9 would be higher than Estrada's on this team.

I understand the optics of the deal but there isn't really anything redeemable when looking at his stat line.

I see the velocity (steady at 92), the FIP, and presence of a heartbeat. He could be so bad that he's sent to Triple-A (or released outright), and I would still be comfortable with the outcome (in a 1 for 1, no money changing hands deal).

 

[Eyedea]

I guess its just fear that Olivares will turn into something. Its somewhat similar to that time that Johermyn Chavez was going to come back and burn the Blue Jays.

Wuilmer Becerra still the steal of the Dickey deal

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

I guess its just fear that Olivares will turn into something. Its somewhat similar to that time that Johermyn Chavez was going to come back and burn the Blue Jays.

that's a blast from the past.

There was a span of time there in 2008-2012 that the jays looked really deep in OF prospects. Lots of players had promising numbers in Lansing (at younger ages than Olivares) and amounted to pretty much nothing. I think the odds are more likely that Olivares fizzles out at the higher levels much like Sierra, Chavez, Crouse, etc. If he does make it to the majors most of his value will hinge on his defense (much like Pillar or Marisnick).

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Wuilmer Becerra still the steal of the Dickey deal

I can't believe he's listed at 243 pounds now. How can you slug .335 when you weigh that much? must have some really shitty bat speed or be made of blubber.

 

[Discoverer]

that's a blast from the past.

There was a span of time there in 2008-2012 that the jays looked really deep in OF prospects. Lots of players had promising numbers in Lansing (at younger ages than Olivares) and amounted to pretty much nothing. I think the odds are more likely that Olivares fizzles out at the higher levels much like Sierra, Chavez, Crouse, etc. If he does make it to the majors most of his value will hinge on his defense (much like Pillar or Marisnick).

Add Marcus Knecht to that list. Everyone gets to have huge seasons in Lansing, but Dunedin really seems to be the make-or-break level for Blue Jays OF prospects, doesn't it?

 

[Garlando]

Add Marcus Knecht to that list. Everyone gets to have huge seasons in Lansing, but Dunedin really seems to be the make-or-break level for Blue Jays OF prospects, doesn't it?

Dunedin Blue Jays play in the Florida State League which is a notorious pitchers league. Producing as a hitter at A+ ball in the FSL is usually very noteworthy.

 

[Jozay]

How much would Cain cost? And is 4 years a must?

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

How much would Cain cost? And is 4 years a must?

likely 4 yrs at 18-20 per.

Reason he hasn't signed yet is that his agent is probably holding out for a 5th year hoping someone bites. I think he will eventually settle for something in the ballpark of 4 yrs 72 million +5th year vesting option that could make it 5 yrs/90.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yangervis Solarte and the Blue Jays’ Attempt to Thread the Needle | FanGraphs Baseball

Fangraphs take: "A Toronto team projected to finish almost 10 games worse than the best two teams in their division just improved their 2018 roster at a potential cost down the road. It might be a fine trade in a vacuum, but is it a well-timed one?"

Projections don't mean a whole heck of a lot to me. I still remember 2013. I just wish we could have a magical Red Sox 2013 type of run. But good things rarely happen to us, so...

 

[Nineteen67]

Projections don't mean a whole heck of a lot to me. I still remember 2013. I just wish we could have a magical Red Sox 2013 type of run. But good things rarely happen to us, so...

It’s hard going on those runs when the players get tired playing 81 games on that turf.