Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Discontent II: Discontent Harder

[Woodman19]

If possible trade Morales and let Pearce DH.

That would open so much roster flexibility.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If possible trade Morales and let Pearce DH.

That's what I hope for. My guess is either that, Pearce is traded, Carrera is traded/let go or Hernandez does not make it. Otherwise I can not see it unless a roster player (i.e. Travis) is used to acquire an OF through trade.

 

[Discoverer]

Jays 2018 early Steamer + Zips projections

Asterisk = steamer-only projection

2B Travis 102wrc+, 2.8war/650
3B Donaldson 140wrc+, 6.3war/650
1B Smoak 116wrc+, 2.3war/650
LF Pearce 109wrc+, 1.5war/650
DH Morales 106wrc+, 1.0war/650
C Martin 101wrc+, 3.8war/650
SS Tulowitzki 98wrc+, 2.8war/650
CF Pillar 90wrc+, 2.9war/650
RF Hernandez 89wrc+, 0.9war/650

UT Solarte* 101wrc+, 1.8war/650
OF Carrera 85wrc+, 0.0war/650 / Pompey 81wrc+, 0.8war/650
IF Diaz* 96wrc+, 1.9war/650
C Maile 52wrc+, -0.1war/650

Having two guys who project as league average players as depth behind the oft-injured middle infielders is pretty huge, especially after having a couple sub-replacement level guys in those roles last year.

 

[Discoverer]

If possible trade Morales and let Pearce DH.

That's what I've wanted all offseason. It would be great even if they have to eat most of his salary.

 

[trellaine201]

What’s his defence like? Average? Good?

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[dredeye]

And in comes wiz with articles discussed a week ago.

 

[canucksfan]

I really hope Travis can stay healthy. Not setbacks with Sanchez either.

 

[zeke]

Why do you not like the target? 108 wRC+ with a .190 ISO against righties this past season, had an oblique injury that wrecked his second half, but nonetheless he's an above average platoon bat with underrated power and great bat to ball skills. He's also been transitioning more and more each year to an extreme flyball orientation, and we all know flyballs at the dome mean dingers.

well just because he's a (good) bench calibre player making non-nothing money that cost a non-nothing prospect. not the target i like to see us going for.

but hey if we sign Cain i'm happy.

 

[hd1344]

I like the Diaz and Solarte movie thus far.

It seems likely that the Jays are going to try and make a run with their current makeup with Donaldson, so there's no downside to these moves here. Upping the ceiling for our Utility and Bench players is a solid, if unsexy move, especially given our middle infielders' propensities for DL stints.

Still am a bit worried about Atkins' proclamation about being confident/content with our OF, but still am willing to wait this market out and see what shakes out.

 

[OVO16]

Cain would be so ideal. Our lineup actually wouldnt look that bad if we signed him.

Hernandez
Cain
Donaldson
Smoak
Morales
Tulowitzki
Pillar
Solarte/Travis

 

[Eyedea]

well just because he's a (good) bench calibre player making non-nothing money that cost a non-nothing prospect. not the target i like to see us going for.

but hey if we sign Cain i'm happy.

Oh right, of course, because of the implication.

 

[zeke]

Oh right, of course, because of the implication.

no, just because i don't like spendingvlimited resources on borderline players.

 

[hockeywiz542]

TORONTO – The roster-building element driven home by the success of teams like the Houston Astros, Los Angeles Dodgers and Cleveland Indians is that beyond top-shelf talent and depth; there’s simply no substitute for versatile, flexible players. Inevitably, over the course of 162 games, the contingency plans of clubs get tested, and having a backup worthy of at-bats for every position is impossible. That’s why having solid contributors who can move all over the diamond can be a major difference-maker.

To that end, the Toronto Blue Jays added a layer of protection they lacked during an injury-filled 2017 with Saturday’s acquisition of infielder Yangervis Solarte from the San Diego Padres, for outfield prospect Edward Olivares and right-hander Jared Carkuff. Along with the November pickup of shortstop Aledmys Diaz, they have now added two middle-of-the-diamond players with some offensive game to support one of the most vulnerable areas of their roster.

While neither is quite at the level of a Marwin Gonzalez, Chris Taylor or Jose Ramirez, both offer significant upgrades from Ryan Goins and Darwin Barney, two utilitymen whose defence was no longer elite enough to compensate for the lack of thump in their bats. Having spent last summer looking like sailors on a leaky rowboat scrambling to plug all the holes – remember Josh Donaldson at shortstop and starts for Russell Martin and Jose Bautista at third base? – manager John Gibbons and his coaching staff now have real options to choose from.

“What we’re looking for, and will continue to look for, are options and versatile options and guys that can do multiple things, and guys that can typically play in the middle of the diamond can do more than that,” general manager Ross Atkins said on a conference call. “Both (Solarte and Diaz) will complement each other well.”

The relative low cost for Solarte keeps alive the possibility of a pricier free agent add – they’ve inquired to some degree about Lorenzo Cain, Jarrod Dyson, Lance Lynn and Alex Cobb – although they could still make more trades, as well, believing their farm system still has plenty to offer in multiple ways.

“We could go several directions,” said Atkins. “We feel like we have one of the better systems in baseball, it’s not the best, we still have work to do, we feel that we’re probably in the top third, but we have plenty of depth to protect us throughout the major-league season, to provide options for us throughout the major-league season and to trade from. Whether that’s a bigger deal or a smaller deal, we’ll see, but we are now in a position where we have that option.”

 

[hockeywiz542]

2. Christian Yelich, CF, Marlins — More teams have entered the mix for Yelich in the last week as the Marlins continue to shed payroll. The Nationals are the latest to get involved, while the Blue Jays, Giants, Phillies, Braves, and Rangers also appear to have some interest. The Marlins are looking for a haul in return, and in Washington’s case, they’re eyeing No. 1 outfield prospect Victor Robles.

 

[hd1344]

The problem with Yelich is that the Marlins have been bent over backwards, both in trades and in the media, all off-season that I feel they might be overly-demanding in any trade for him.

The Jays system, while being in the upper tier and on the rebound, is also considered fairly top-heavy with VGJ, BB, and AA, that i don't think would be the best time to be surrendering the prospects demanded by the Marlins for such a trade without impacting the farm, despite several years of control for Yelich remaining.

 

[The Nemesis]

The Jays should just work out a C+ prospect for C+ prospect with the Yankees, then flip that guy for Yelich.

Also Cafardo's suggestion that the Red Sox need to do something "to reconnect with the fans" is laughable. That's the kind of **** that gets teams in trouble, because the off-season is about making good moves for the team, not entertaining the fans

 

[hockeywiz542]

In my opinion, the Toronto Blue Jays are also trying to appease their fanbase just like the Boston Red Sox. But it seems as though the Toronto Blue Jays are doing this in a completely different manner.

The Red Sox are trying to reconnect with their fans by continuing to sign marquee free agent players to expensive long-term contracts whereas the Toronto Blue Jays are trying to maintain the same level of fan attendance and interest in the baseball club for the upcoming MLB season by signing and trading for cost-effective and controllable players as well as maintaining the current roster of aging veteran players in an ill-advised feeble attempt to remain competitive for 2018.

However, it is quite apparent that by doing these actions, the Toronto Blue Jays have postponed the inevitable and much needed rebuild of the baseball club for another year.

Mark Shapiro said that the Toronto Blue Jays would have hit the reset button a year ago if it wasn't for the fans.

The Toronto Blue Jays total attendance for the 2017 MLB season was 3,203,886.

www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/shapiro-blue-jays-hit-reset-year-ago-not-fans/

One of the biggest questions among Toronto Blue Jays fans is whether the team should move forward with its current roster in search of contention or hit the reset button.

It’s a question Blue Jays president and CEO Mark Shapiro has asked, too, and he addressed the topic Wednesday on The Jeff Blair Show.

“I’ve said all along, if we were just running our team without fans and it was an intellectual exercise, we probably would’ve hit a reset over a year ago,” he said.

“I’m not denying where we are and what the strategic alternatives are, but the reality is that a very, very, very high price was paid to put a team on the field that our fans responded to in just an incredible way across an entire country.”

The Blue Jays grabbed ahold of the nation with back-to-back playoff runs in 2015 and 2016, but stumbled out of the gates and fell out of contention early on in the 2017 season causing many to strongly question the direction of the club. For Shapiro, that includes thinking about the fans.

“As we deliberate on the different strategies and the different directions to go, we feel an obligation to try to field a contending, competitive team and at such a time we feel that is not possible, we will pivot,” Shapiro said. “Proactively pivoting, based upon the price paid and the way our fans have responded, that’s why we’re not doing that. That’s why we’re trying to remain competitive.”

​

 

[AlienWorkShop]

Oh right, of course, because of the implication.

If we sign Cain, then the answer obviously is no. The thing is, we're not going to sign Cain, and we're never going to sign Cain, because of the implication.

 

[zeke]

why aren't you guys upset about the implication of trading a non-nothing prospect for a 30yr old bench player, btw?

 

[Anthrax442]

why aren't you guys upset about the implication of trading a non-nothing prospect for a 30yr old bench player, btw?

Better question is, why isn't Stroman upset?

 

[Discoverer]

why aren't you guys upset about the implication of trading a non-nothing prospect for a 30yr old bench player, btw?

Depends. Is the implication that a) they're not that high on Olivares, b) they're not confident Tulo and Travis can stay healthy, c) they recognize that it's important to have good major league players as depth, or d) something completely unrelated that you're only worried about because of your assumptions about the intentions of the people who made this trade?

Also, a projection of 1.9 fWAR over a full season is approximately a league average player.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Cain would be so ideal. Our lineup actually wouldnt look that bad if we signed him.

Hernandez
Cain
Donaldson
Smoak
Morales
Tulowitzki
Pillar
Solarte/Travis

What an interesting order to put those names in...

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I like the move, though I would have preferred Pirela. It’s a very good bench, with similar depth to 2015.

I’d now go Cain, Dyson, Garcia, Andersen, and look into trading Pillar.

1. Travis
2. Donaldson
3. Smoak
4. Morales
5. Cain
6. Pearce
7. Martin
8. Tulowitzki
9. Pillar

B: Maile, Diaz, Solarte, Dyson

Rotation: Stroman, Sanchez, Happ, Estrada, Garcia
Bullpen: Andersen, Barnes, Tepera, Loup, Leone, Biagini, Osuna

 

[zeke]

Depends. Is the implication that a) they're not that high on Olivares, b) they're not confident Tulo and Travis can stay healthy, c) they recognize that it's important to have good major league players as depth, or d) something completely unrelated that you're only worried about because of your assumptions about the intentions of the people who made this trade?

eh you guys don't mind trying to make me look like a hypocrite. i'm just a little surprised (or maybe i'm not) that all the prospect hoarders here are suddenly fine with management giving up a decent prospect for a 30yr old bench guy in what he has admitted already is a move just to appease us dumb fans.

Also, a projection of 1.9 fWAR over a full season is approximately a league average player.

eh if you have a 2war starting player then you are looking for an upgrade. and of course his war rate is inflated by his platoon usage.