Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[BMN]

Also with the crime rate in the downtown area, along with two new "low income housing" developments planned for the area. I don't see myself going to a game.

I see metro Atlanta's NIMBYism was shipped up to Winnipeg alongside the NHL team ;-)

I count a successful NHL season as one where a team wins a single playoff series in front of real fans. The Jets have had one such season since their return.

By those standards, Atlanta had no successful seasons in 19 years combined with an additional 20 years of nothingness wedged in the middle of them ...

But germane to your point (I wasn't assuming any previous aspersions about Atlanta from you by my comment, just for the yuks): This is always the challenge with the small-market franchises isn't it? You're relying on a more dedicated base but a smaller one and one that's likely to be a little more impatient & wound up by a team treading its wheels.

There's never really been a season I can think of where I thought "Look out for Winnipeg to win it all." Even the year they went to the Conference Finals, I felt like they'd punched a tad bit above their weight (and then oddly fell to Vegas, the one team I banked on them defeating). That's why I look at that marketing video and think to myself "Isn't it about time for the team to be selling itself on the drive to the Holy Grail? Don't they assume their audience is thinking merely past 'come here and pay way-above-market-prices to a corporate enterprise as a community service?'"

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I see metro Atlanta's NIMBYism was shipped up to Winnipeg alongside the NHL team ;-)


By those standards, Atlanta had no successful seasons in 19 years combined with an additional 20 years of nothingness wedged in the middle of them ...

But germane to your point (I wasn't assuming any previous aspersions about Atlanta from you by my comment, just for the yuks): This is always the challenge with the small-market franchises isn't it? You're relying on a more dedicated base but a smaller one and one that's likely to be a little more impatient & wound up by a team treading its wheels.

There's never really been a season I can think of where I thought "Look out for Winnipeg to win it all." Even the year they went to the Conference Finals, I felt like they'd punched a tad bit above their weight (and then oddly fell to Vegas, the one team I banked on them defeating). That's why I look at that marketing video and think to myself "Isn't it about time for the team to be selling itself on the drive to the Holy Grail? Don't they assume their audience is thinking merely past 'come here and pay way-above-market-prices to a corporate enterprise as a community service?'"

Oh yeah - Atlanta was even worse, because they didn't even get a playoff WIN in a single game - swept in their only appearance. I should track "successful season droughts" instead of playoff droughts.

Given the revenue boost that playoff home games bring, getting an extra series basically doubles your take-home for a season. If Atlanta makes a run or two, and the ownership sees what a boon playoff revenue is in the NHL, maybe we're not having this conversation.

Getting to the final 8 of your league shouldn't be a terrible challenge, especially in hockey, where lesser skilled teams are rewarded come playoff time. You should be able to win a playoff series or two even if you completely blow a competitive cycle.

I'd also say, ironically, it was Atlanta's complete on-ice failure that was a major factor in spawning those Golden Knights that beat Winnipeg in their only chance at a cup.

I argue that the one playoff run the Jets had was actually undone by their performance the previous season. That team needed a bit of experience on what the playoffs were like, even if it was a first-round exit, and instead they choked the season away.

 

[BMN]

I'd also say, ironically, it was Atlanta's complete on-ice failure that was a major factor in spawning those Golden Knights that beat Winnipeg in their only chance at a cup.

I hadn't even thought about it in those terms but you're right! Although the irony of a Lil' Jon cheered team with the name "Knights" being the team to do it wasn't lost on me at the time...

And agreed re: the followup season being the missed opportunity. A big run is kind of analogous to that run of first dates where someone sweeps you off of your feet...the beginning of the season that follows is when a lot of people settle-- or don't-- on the "this is a real relationship" feeling.

 

[joelef]

I think that number of hockey rinks in a sunbelt city, and the high cost of playing the game has deterred most of the population from participating. It's not like basketball or football, where one can pretty much play at any park, and virtually every high school or rec centre in America must have a football field. Basketball is even easier to play, as the cost of building a court, and the lack of equipment allows all income groups to participate.

Were seeing this in Canada. When I was a child in the 80s, there were far more community centres and outdoor rinks in Canadian cities. Due to costs of the upkeep of these rinks, they are being closed and demolished in favor of multi-sport rec centres with one or two rinks in a large area, instead of a dozen outdoor rinks. The cost of playing hockey has risen exponentially in Canada.

This is precisely why kids in cities like Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal are turning to soccer, basketball, and other sports. Even though Toronto and Vancouver are the most ethnically diverse cities in North America, very few visible minorities are playing the game. I think price is an obvious factor. However, I am sure that non-White kids may feel out of place (especially in Toronto) where the city is 60% visible minorities, but only 10% of hockey players are visible minorities. Hockey seems to becoming more like golf and tennis, in that it is viewed somewhat as an upper class Caucasian sport.

The NHL has made efforts to address this, including programs to be inclusive of all groups of people. Hopefully it has some degree of success. On a side note, Indigenous Canadians have bucked the trend, and are well represented in hockey when considering only 4.5 people in Canada are Native.

It dosent help that the nhl dosent market it star players

 

[Jets4Life]

It dosent help that the nhl dosent market it star players

They seemed to try that right after the lockout. I recall commercials they did with Crosby and Ovechkin around 2006. They also had Crosby posters at all Tim Hortons outlets since he played Timbits hockey when he was 5 years old. I'm shocked at the lack of Connor McDavid commercials or nearly anything, and I am in Edmonton right now. It's all Oilers, but I guess everyone knows about McDavid and Drai, so they don't really market them here.

 

[Jets4Life]

I argue that the one playoff run the Jets had was actually undone by their performance the previous season. That team needed a bit of experience on what the playoffs were like, even if it was a first-round exit, and instead they choked the season away.

I disagree with this. There are plenty of examples of teams either never making the playoffs,a nd going on a run, or teams that had had not seen playoff action in a few years, go on a run. Examples;

New Jersey came within one game of the Stanley Cup Final in 88, despite no playoff history.
Calgary Flames came within one game if the SCF in their first year in 81. It's notable since Atlanta never won any playoff rounds despite having a good team.
NY Islanders came within one game of the SCF in 75, despite never making the playoffs.
Buffalo made it to the SCF in 75, in spite of never making the playoffs
Vegas of course, made it to the cup final in their first season
Florida made it to the SCF in 96, despite never making the playoffs
Carolina made it to the SCF in 2002, despite only winning one round in their history, which was 16 years earlier, and missing the playoffs the prior 2 seasons.
Calgary came within a game of winning the cup on 04, despite not even making the playoffs since 1996.
Carolina won the Stanley Cup in 06, despite waiting 4 years for a playoff birth.

I'm sure there are other examples, but I'm exhausted.

 

[Jets4Life]

I pointed out when Winnipeg got it's team back that it's previous iteration was only above league average in attendance twice. They were ok for a while and now that the shine might be off, it is going to be a tough financial situation.

The Jets attendance from 1979-96 suffered considerably due to 5,000 of those seats being nosebleeds, which were added on to meet NHL requirements, instead of building a new arena in the early 80s. Many were obstructed, and the steep angle would give OH&S people nightmares. I'm amazed nobody was killed by taking a nasty tumble after one too many beers.

The Jets managed to sell roughly 95% of non-nosebleed seats, which was well above NHL average in those days.

I count a successful NHL season as one where a team wins a single playoff series in front of real fans.

The Jets have had one such season since their return.

It should be two. Not our fault there was a multi year pandemic preventing fans from attending games.

Atlanta never won a single post season game during the 12 years they had a team.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

It should be two. Not our fault there was a multi year pandemic preventing fans from attending games.

Atlanta never won a single post season game during the 12 years they had a team.

I'm not going to argue about how fans should feel about the Pandemic seasons - it's too wrapped up in personal experience.

But this is the Business of Hockey board. We're talking about business, not fandom, and certainly the run for the Jets when they beat the Oilers didn't come with the business success that usually comes with a playoff series win.

 

[Jets4Life]

But this is the Business of Hockey board. We're talking about business, not fandom, and certainly the run for the Jets when they beat the Oilers didn't come with the business success that usually comes with a playoff series win.

lol....you and I are both somewhat invested in this argument personally. I can understand and appreciate your position - you clearly have shown animosity toward the Winnipeg market, most likely since they were once your team- the Thrashers.

Personally, I was born and raised in Winnipeg, and I still believe in my city, and I ahve no problem defending it. However, let's keep it real. If anything, you should practice what you preach, and lay off with the Winnipeg Jets bashing.

 

[Jets4Life]

I see metro Atlanta's NIMBYism was shipped up to Winnipeg alongside the NHL team ;-)

LOL... Winnipeg has been the NIMBY capital of Canada for decades.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

lol....you and I are both somewhat invested in this argument personally. I can understand and appreciate your position - you clearly have shown animosity toward the Winnipeg market, most likely since they were once your team- the Thrashers.

Personally, I was born and raised in Winnipeg, and I still believe in my city, and I ahve no problem defending it. However, let's keep it real. If anything, you should practice what you preach, and lay off with the Winnipeg Jets bashing.

Lol I am from Manitoba. JetsOwner forum born and raised. Still have the t-shirt.

My feelings towards that jets team are very complicated, given my opinion of the historical importance of getting revenge on the Oilers, the potential to go further than they should have, and the incredible awkwardness of watching OT victories in an empty building.

 

[Headshot77]

Do any of those people really care about hockey though? Or does that not matter? Isn’t the Phoenix area really big?

Believe it or not, no. It really doesn't matter. What matters is getting corporate sponsorships and selling big swaths of season tickets to companies. That's more sustainable than relying on a continuous high-level support of a small fandom.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Lol I am from Manitoba. JetsOwner forum born and raised. Still have the t-shirt.

My feelings towards that jets team are very complicated, given my opinion of the historical importance of getting revenge on the Oilers, the potential to go further than they should have, and the incredible awkwardness of watching OT victories in an empty building.

It's been a long, long time, and I don't remember you, but I have to give a Jetsowner forum nod of respect from one old-timer to another.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

It's been a long, long time, and I don't remember you, but I have to give a Jetsowner forum nod of respect from one old-timer to another.

I had a different username - I think just Gimli.

 

[varsaku]

Believe it or not, no. It really doesn't matter. What matters is getting corporate sponsorships and selling big swaths of season tickets to companies. That's more sustainable than relying on a continuous high-level support of a small fandom.

But doesn't that bring up the underlying issue that the fans are being priced out in favor of companies that can pay the higher and higher prices charged every year. While in the short term that will continue the revenue growth, but in the long term less fans are likely to see a game live. Many become fans after viewing a game live but if ticket prices are a deterrent, many may never give it a chance. For as much as people make fun of the Leafs home games being so quiet, it is the end result of high number of corporate season ticket holders.

And to add, games are becoming difficult to watch on TV with younger generations being cord cutters, who are more inclined to prefer a one stop shop option. Unless they seek out the games, they are less likely to get into hockey.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Life isn’t fair…. It’s called karma.

??? Karma would be if the Coyotes folded or moved

 

[TheLegend]

??? Karma would be if the Coyotes folded or moved

Always a possibility.

Then again.... maybe karma is what's been keeping them there.

 

[Jets4Life]

I had a different username - I think just Gimli.

GImli is a great username. It's the one town in Manitoba I would love to live in.

 

[jetsmooseice]

It's been a long, long time, and I don't remember you, but I have to give a Jetsowner forum nod of respect from one old-timer to another.

Hey, same here. I was a Jetsowner forum member too. Although I never trekked down to Zellers to buy the t-shirt, haha.

Whatever happened to Darren Ford???

 

[Jets4Life]

Hey, same here. I was a Jetsowner forum member too. Although I never trekked down to Zellers to buy the t-shirt, haha.

Whatever happened to Darren Ford???

Sad story.

Darren started Jetsowner.com in 2003. Seemed like a good guy. Met him in 2005.

I was a member of Jetsowner from 2005-09. By 2009, I guess his ego may have become inflated. My friend had held a street hockey tournamnt in spring 2009, to bring awareness to the return of the Jets, as a seperate entity of Jetsowner.com. Ford pretty much had the opinion "you have to go through me first, as I am the only credible person with a grassroots movement to bring back the Jets."

I applaud Darren for starting a website dedicated to us "dreamers" at the time. But it just seemed like his ego got the best of him later on. Such a shame..

Last I heard, Darren was banned from Twitter, but was a season ticket holder. I recall that he owns a wine making shop.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Sad story.

Darren started Jetsowner.com in 2003. Seemed like a good guy. Met him in 2005.

I was a member of Jetsowner from 2005-09. By 2009, I guess his ego may ahve become inflated. My friend had held a street hockey tournamnt in spring 2009, to bring awareness to the return of the Jets, as a seperate entity of Jetsowner.com. Ford pretty much had the opinion "you have to go through me first, as I am the only credible person with a grassroots movement to bring back the Jets." I quit Jetsowner then.

I applaud Darren for starting a website dedicated to us "dreamers" at the time. But it just seemed like his ego got the best of him later on. Such a shame..

Last I heard, Darren was banned from Twitter. I recall that he owns a wine making shop.

Hey, same here. I was a Jetsowner forum member too. Although I never trekked down to Zellers to buy the t-shirt, haha.

Whatever happened to Darren Ford???

https://www.linkedin.com/in/darren-ford-39519420a/

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Sad story.

Darren started Jetsowner.com in 2003. Seemed like a good guy. Met him in 2005.

I was a member of Jetsowner from 2005-09. By 2009, I guess his ego may have become inflated. My friend had held a street hockey tournamnt in spring 2009, to bring awareness to the return of the Jets, as a seperate entity of Jetsowner.com. Ford pretty much had the opinion "you have to go through me first, as I am the only credible person with a grassroots movement to bring back the Jets."

I applaud Darren for starting a website dedicated to us "dreamers" at the time. But it just seemed like his ego got the best of him later on. Such a shame..

Last I heard, Darren was banned from Twitter. I recall that he owns a wine making shop.

I spoke with him at a random event a couple years ago.

IIRC He seemed a little embarrassed at how big of a head he got at the time, which was understandable to me.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I spoke with him at a random event a couple years ago.

IIRC He seemed a little embarrassed at how big of a head he got at the time, which was understandable to me.

This is risking going off-topic, although this is a Jets-related thread.

I mean yes on the one hand he did develop connections. It did sound like he was getting info from Chipman, or people in Chipman's orbit. I mean there's a reason he was invited to the presser announcing the purchase of the team, and if I recall correctly Ford posted a video from that presser where Chipman looked right at him and winked.

But on the other hand - yeah he was just some dude with a website, and for a little while he did seem kind of full of himself. I appreciated Jetsowner for giving me hope in some dark days, but Darren Ford was not responsible for bringing back the Jets.

 

[Lions67]

I was also a long time member over there. You guys must remember Dave ( rip) . He was the organizer of the petition to have the team be called the Jets. He asked me if he should do it and I told him why not?
I am the second name on that petition. He was first.

 

[Jets4Life]

I was also a long time member over there. You guys must remember Dave ( rip) . He was the organizer of the petition to have the team be called the Jets. He asked me if he should do it and I told him why not?
I am the second name on that petition. He was first.

Dave seemed like a great guy. I miss him.