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Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

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The game against Columbus on Tues will be ugly. Probably around 12,000 attendance would be my guess. There will be a few more games like that this year regardless of the Jets record.
 
While the Jets may be first in the standings, they are second to last in attendance. That statement is both total(due to the Coyotes smaller arena) and percentage(due to the Sharks larger arena).

Something curious is that even though the Jets are doing much better in the standings, they are actually down about a thousand and a half fans from last year.

2022-2023
2023-2024

I'm still not sure what is actually causing this., we looked at ticket prices earlier and they were very much in line with other Non-Major markets. I believe it was Jets4Life that made the point about it potentially being Covid related. I don't think its that specifically just because the 2023 numbers are better than the 2024. It IS potentially related to covid recovery of the businesses in the area not being as strong as expected. I don't know if Winnipeg is driven by a few certain industries but if they haven't seen the kind of recovery they were expecting or if they've had a downturn, it would make sense they would pull back from investing in corporate M&E such as hockey games.
 
Dr Robot said:
While the Jets may be first in the standings, they are second to last in attendance. That statement is both total(due to the Coyotes smaller arena) and percentage(due to the Sharks larger arena).

Something curious is that even though the Jets are doing much better in the standings, they are actually down about a thousand and a half fans from last year.

2022-2023
2023-2024

I'm still not sure what is actually causing this., we looked at ticket prices earlier and they were very much in line with other Non-Major markets. I believe it was Jets4Life that made the point about it potentially being Covid related. I don't think its that specifically just because the 2023 numbers are better than the 2024. It IS potentially related to covid recovery of the businesses in the area not being as strong as expected. I don't know if Winnipeg is driven by a few certain industries but if they haven't seen the kind of recovery they were expecting or if they've had a downturn, it would make sense they would pull back from investing in corporate M&E such as hockey games.
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A lot of Jets fans have already posted up thread that the economy has had an affect on people affording to buy tickets and I’m willing to take their word for it.

But as it is the Jets aren’t in any financial distress because their ownership group had the foresight to divest their holdings in the city.
 
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Including today (Sunday) there's been 27 games of sub-11k attendance so far this season. Obviously the 27 least-attended games this season, to-date.

Arizona has 20 of them.
San Jose has 7 of them.

Winnipeg has been in 3 of them, as the visiting team. one @ San Jose, two @ Arizona.
 
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Ted Hoffman said:
As I said years ago when the "Thrashers to Winnipeg" talk cranked up and the pro-Winnipeg crowd repeatedly SWORE TO f***ING GOD any team in Canada would ALWAYS be fully supported, no matter how shitty it was: there are very few sports franchises in North America that will sell out every game regardless of how the team is doing.

The Leafs and Canadiens are two of them. The Rangers are in this group for the NHL. In the NFL, it's the Packers and then probably the Cowboys and maybe the Steelers. In the NBA, the Knicks, Lakers and Celtics. Maybe a couple other teams that don't jump out immediately. [No, not anyone in MLB - including the Red Sox and Yankees.] Every other franchise, there's a base of fans [and we're arguing over how large that is] and everything else is dependent on the team winning, and the argument ensues on how sensitive a franchise's attendance is to the franchise's record.
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A few years ago the Dallas Cowboys played at home the 49ers and it was 75% SF fans. Jerry Jones was not happy about his home being taken over by visiting team fans. No franchise is immune.
www.businessinsider.com

49ers Fans Take Over Cowboys Stadium In Week 1

The Cowboys are slipping into irrelevance.
www.businessinsider.com
 
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TheLegend said:
A lot of Jets fans have already posted up thread that the economy has had an affect on people affording to buy tickets and I’m willing to take their word for it.

But as it is the Jets aren’t in any financial distress because their ownership group had the foresight to divest their holdings in the city.
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I've been trying to logic through why one of the best teams has the worst attendance and that seems like its the most reasonable. Without having hard numbers for the cities GDP or what industries are most prevalent there its really just guesswork. I think that's the most sensible though.

I also don't think they are in any kind of relocation danger regardless. Even a few years of downturn probably wouldn't be that dangerous. Worst case they just start cutting back payroll and become a internal cap team rather than salary cap. I had heard there were a number of teams that took loans out during COVID to cover operation expenses. Not saying Winnipeg is one, just that short term revenue deficiencies can be mitigated by options like that if necessary.
 
Dr Robot said:
I've been trying to logic through why one of the best teams has the worst attendance and that seems like its the most reasonable. Without having hard numbers for the cities GDP or what industries are most prevalent there its really just guesswork. I think that's the most sensible though.

I also don't think they are in any kind of relocation danger regardless. Even a few years of downturn probably wouldn't be that dangerous. Worst case they just start cutting back payroll and become an internal cap team rather than salary cap. I had heard there were a number of teams that took loans out during COVID to cover operation expenses. Not saying Winnipeg is one, just that short term revenue deficiencies can be mitigated by options like that if necessary.
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Winnipeg is a smaller market so the effects are going to be more readily visible than a Toronto or New York, etc.. But they will be fine.
 
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Dr Robot said:
While the Jets may be first in the standings, they are second to last in attendance. That statement is both total(due to the Coyotes smaller arena) and percentage(due to the Sharks larger arena).

Something curious is that even though the Jets are doing much better in the standings, they are actually down about a thousand and a half fans from last year.

2022-2023
2023-2024

I'm still not sure what is actually causing this., we looked at ticket prices earlier and they were very much in line with other Non-Major markets. I believe it was Jets4Life that made the point about it potentially being Covid related. I don't think its that specifically just because the 2023 numbers are better than the 2024. It IS potentially related to covid recovery of the businesses in the area not being as strong as expected. I don't know if Winnipeg is driven by a few certain industries but if they haven't seen the kind of recovery they were expecting or if they've had a downturn, it would make sense they would pull back from investing in corporate M&E such as hockey games.
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The attendance issues are caused by the loss of season ticket holders. Previously there were 13k with a waitlist. There is now 9 to 10k. Winnipeg cannot reliably sell 5000 seats on a walkup basis. Hence the attendance problems, especially for weeknight games.

Season tickets are a lagging indicator. People cancelled over the last few years due to COVID, negativity, poor customer service and whatever. Success, positivity and improved customer servive will sell more, but it takes time to rebuild.

A lot of the poor attendance was baked in this summer. People gave up their tickets because the sentiment surrounding the team was so low.
 
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Winnipeg long term was a mistake. Unless the population skyrockets and all of a sudden you get a massive surge of corporations there it's going to be a drag on the league. Ottawa has similar issues with corporate support too. Anyone clamoring for a Quebec City return has to understand how the NHL would only go there if there is no other option at all including owning the team and waiting it out. I don't expect tv deals to increase substantially in the future. Cable subs are dropping and hockey's popularity in the States is stagnant at best (that's the media market that can help prop low attendance). Doubt that after Rogers lost money on the current NHL deal anyone will give them a substantial increase too.
 
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blueandgoldguy said:
The game against Columbus on Tues will be ugly. Probably around 12,000 attendance would be my guess. There will be a few more games like that this year regardless of the Jets record.
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So I dunno about 12,000 - but I am curious to see attendance tonight.

So on the positive - they come into tonight in first place in the entire f'ing league, on a 6 game win streak, 8-0-2 in their last 10. The team is on absolute fire. It's the only appearance of the Columbus Blue Jackets in Winnipeg - which is not a big deal in most markets, but Laine (despite not having a good year at all) still attracts attention in Winnipeg.

On the negative - it's a Tuesday, in January, in Winnipeg. Forecast shows -17c at puck drop (-24c with windchill). And I don't know if there's any specific way to find out how many tickets are available, but ticketmaster is showing LOTS.


Now a night like this though I think shows the importance of season ticket sales. I don't doubt that a lot of people who are season ticket holders might look at the forecast, put their tickets up for sale. If the tickets sell they pocket the cash, but if they don't they go to the game. On the other hand if you're a walk-up customer, you might just look at the forecast and go "nah!".
 
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OG6ix said:
Winnipeg long term was a mistake. Unless the population skyrockets and all of a sudden you get a massive surge of corporations there it's going to be a drag on the league. Ottawa has similar issues with corporate support too. Anyone clamoring for a Quebec City return has to understand how the NHL would only go there if there is no other option at all including owning the team and waiting it out. I don't expect tv deals to increase substantially in the future. Cable subs are dropping and hockey's popularity in the States is stagnant at best (that's the media market that can help prop low attendance). Doubt that after Rogers lost money on the current NHL deal anyone will give them a substantial increase too.
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"A drag on the league". Let's say you mean median HRR per team. In that case, 16 of 32 teams are a drag on league HRR.

If you mean average HRR per team - a handful of really profitable teams (your Torontos, Rangers, Bostons and the like) really skew the average. In that case even more than 16 teams are a drag on league HRR.

Winnipeg / Ottawa / Quebec City are what they are - solid smaller hockey markets. You're right in that they aren't going to really drive league-wide revenues significantly higher. But they're not going to be boat anchors on league revenues either.

You're right the league isn't exactly waiting on baited breath to go into Quebec City. All-in-all, I'm sure they'd prefer Houston or Atlanta. But Bettman did make certain veiled promises to Quebec City to get they to built the Centre Videotron, so I'm sure they don't want to completely give them the cold shoulder if a qualified owner steps forward. As well, while I'm sure all things being equal the league would prefer Houston or Atlanta, but if they need a safe landing sport for a franchise Quebec City would certainly qualify.
 
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Yukon Joe said:
So I dunno about 12,000 - but I am curious to see attendance tonight.
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How can someone check a team's attendance per individual game? I saw a reference to last night's game against Chicago being a sell-out, but I was looking to actually confirm that. Plus I'm still curious about the attendance versus Columbus.
 
Yukon Joe said:
How can someone check a team's attendance per individual game? I saw a reference to last night's game against Chicago being a sell-out, but I was looking to actually confirm that. Plus I'm still curious about the attendance versus Columbus.
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Any sports site like ESPN has a box-score with the final scores and includes the attendance. Peg did about 12K against Columbus, but sold out last night against Chicago.
 
TheLegend said:
Wikipedia has the current running schedule including attendance both home and away.

2023–24 Winnipeg Jets season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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I mean that counts on someone accurately reporting the information, but looks solid. Thanks.

So trying to track some patterns - attendance in general has increased. Last night was only the team's second shutout - the one prior was Dec 30 when people are on holidays. Last night it is Chicago which is a draw - but last time they played Chicago 1000 fewer people attended.

So unsure how much winning has had to do with increased attendance - as early season has weaker ticket sales for any team. But yes, when you have a popular opponent, when the game is on a weekend/holiday, and the later you go in the season (as long as you're competitive) the better attendance gets.

Hopefully a really strong season will be reflected in better season ticket sales for next season.
 
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Yukon Joe said:
I mean that counts on someone accurately reporting the information, but looks solid. Thanks.

So trying to track some patterns - attendance in general has increased. Last night was only the team's second shutout - the one prior was Dec 30 when people are on holidays. Last night it is Chicago which is a draw - but last time they played Chicago 1000 fewer people attended.

So unsure how much winning has had to do with increased attendance - as early season has weaker ticket sales for any team. But yes, when you have a popular opponent, when the game is on a weekend/holiday, and the later you go in the season (as long as you're competitive) the better attendance gets.

Hopefully a really strong season will be reflected in better season ticket sales for next season.
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That was the only list I could find. I thought Hockey DB used to keep those types of lists but I couldn’t find it there
 
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