Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[Bixby Snyder]

I feel like we've been over this - Atlanta's owners (ASG) did now want to own a hockey team. ASG owned the arena, so anyone who would buy the Thrashers would then have to rent the arena from ASG, which was not economically viable.

Winnipeg's owners (TNSE) own both the arena, and very much do want to own a hockey team. They also own significant real estate holdings around that arena, all of which are positively impacted by the presence of the hockey team.

You can question Winnipeg's viability all you want - but you should look at the factors particular to Winnipeg when you do so.

Atlanta could've drawn 100% but the fact remains, the new owners only wanted to keep the Hawks and the arena. They did not want the Thrashers at all...literally threw the keys on Bettman's desk and walked away.

I'm very aware of the situation with what went down with the Thrashers. The point is that some here want(ed) any southern franchise (and by southern I mean any franchise not in Canada) that draws 1% less than a sellout relocated but now when it's Winnipeg drawing only 85% or even less and that's been the case much of this season it's perfectly fine.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I'm very aware of the situation with what went down with the Thrashers. The point is that some here want(ed) any southern franchise (and by southern I mean any franchise not in Canada) that draws 1% less than a sellout relocated but now when it's Winnipeg drawing only 85% or even less and that's been the case much of this season it's perfectly fine.

This is classic nutpicking:

Nutpicking

Nutpicking is the fallacious tactic of picking out and showcasing the nuttiest member(s) of a group as the best representative(s) of that group — hence, "picking the nut".

rationalwiki.org

I'm sure somebody, somewhere has said exactly what you have said. Doesn't mean I should care. Demanding 100% perfect sellouts all of the time is a clearly ridiculous standard for any franchise, no matter what country or what lattitude.

 

[aqib]

wn 100% but the fact remains, the new owners only wanted to keep the Hawks and the arena. They did not want the Thrashers at all...literally threw the keys on Bettman's desk and walked awa

If the team was drawing and they were making money they would have let the team run itself like Dolan does the Rangers.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

If the team was drawing and they were making money they would have let the team run itself like Dolan does the Rangers.

Not sure if that's the case. ASG were very vocal during negotiations that they didn't want the team. Time Warner was only selling it all as a package and for a little while, looked elsewhere.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Ok... So this thread is so off course.

Who cares what Atl owners did? They sold the team.

Who cares what nordiques owner did.

This is 2024...
The Jets are not moving, in any current time.

Why are the mods letting this go on, to have flaming?
Opinion's are just that.

 

[Yukon Joe]

If the team was drawing and they were making money they would have let the team run itself like Dolan does the Rangers.

Maybe, but the ASG ownership was fairly dysfunctional. Between differnt members of the group suing each other, to ownership commenting on how too many blacks were attending Atlanta Hawks games, they may not have been operating on a fully rational level.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Ok... So this thread is so off course.

Who cares what Atl owners did? They sold the team.

Who cares what nordiques owner did.

This is 2024...
The Jets are not moving, in any current time.

Why are the mods letting this go on, to have flaming?
Opinion's are just that.

The Jets potentially moving isn't the point of the thread. Outside of a few, hopefully sarcastic posts, nobody really thinks they're moving anytime soon. The point is that late last season, Chipman went public and asked the corporate community for help in boosting the revenue. Now, on the heals of that, the team isn't selling out the smallest arena (sans the temporary home of the Yotes) in the league. In a hockey-crazy town of Winnipeg, that's pretty big news. No opinions there.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

The Jets potentially moving isn't the point of the thread. Outside of a few, hopefully sarcastic posts, nobody really thinks they're moving anytime soon. The point is that late last season, Chipman went public and asked the corporate community for help in boosting the revenue. Now, on the heals of that, the team isn't selling out the smallest arena (sans the temporary home of the Yotes) in the league. In a hockey-crazy town of Winnipeg, that's pretty big news. No opinions there.

Great. Step it up Winnipeg... 2000 less fans up there is different than 1500 less fans down there?
It's not a hockey crazy town... Its a sports team. Hockey is their winter thing.
This thread is redic.

 

[BMN]

If the team was drawing and they were making money they would have let the team run itself like Dolan does the Rangers.

That's kinda one of those "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride" type of analyses. What's public information (via court documents) is that they didn't want the team, owned it as an inconvenience so as to own the Hawks/arena rights and were eager to be rid of it. Would they have thought differently if they believed every season would be like 1999-00 (at the box office and not on the ice, obviously), would their attitudes have been different? It's easy to *assume* yes but I'm not sure we could reach that conclusion 100%.

To the original thread point, if this team keeps streaking, I wonder what kind of positive pub that will drum up to get business to reinvest. They've claimed 18 of their last possible 20 points going into tonight's (road) game.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Great. Step it up Winnipeg... 2000 less fans up there is different than 1500 less fans down there?
It's not a hockey crazy town... Its a sports team. Hockey is their winter thing.
This thread is redic.

I have no idea what all this means.

Down where?

Winnipeg doesn't love hockey??

 

[Yukon Joe]

Great. Step it up Winnipeg... 2000 less fans up there is different than 1500 less fans down there?
It's not a hockey crazy town... Its a sports team. Hockey is their winter thing.
This thread is redic.

I think you doth protest too much.

After years and years of sellouts, the fact the Jets aren't selling out is news. In particular given the season they're having.

To be clear I'm a born-and-raised Winnipegger and long-time Jets fan, and I think they're going nowhere.

But if people want to discuss Jets attendance woes they're entitled to.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

The Jets won't move as long as the following take place:

-Owners are ok with the revenue generated and potential loses and want to own the team in that location
-They have an arena to play in

 

[Yukon Joe]

The Jets won't move as long as the following take place:

<snip>
-They have an arena to play in

To be clear, the Jets own the arena. This is not a situation where the city owns the arena and leases it to the team. because in those situations we've often seen that when the lease expires the team threatens to leave.

Now, if the Jets leave, they're suddenly left with owning an arena without a main tenant.

Now, the arena survived before with only an AHL team, so perhaps it will again. But having had a NHL team that then theoretically left, the city/province would probably not be so quick with tax breaks to keep renovating the arena, particularly as it gets older.

All of which means is that TNSE has lots of incentives to try and keep the Jets.

 

[aqib]

Maybe, but the ASG ownership was fairly dysfunctional. Between differnt members of the group suing each other, to ownership commenting on how too many blacks were attending Atlanta Hawks games, they may not have been operating on a fully rational level.

The Atlanta revisionists have been making it out as if the ASG had such a deep-seeded hatred for hockey they bemoaned the existence of the Thrashers and sent 7 years trying to kill the franchise in order to get rid of it.

If you want to say they neglected the franchise and pay enough attention to hire the right people that's one thing. However, this active teamicide is farfetched.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

I have no idea what all this means.

Down where?

Winnipeg doesn't love hockey??
[/Q

I think you doth protest too much.

After years and years of sellouts, the fact the Jets aren't selling out is news. In particular given the season they're having.

To be clear I'm a born-and-raised Winnipegger and long-time Jets fan, and I think they're going nowhere.

But if people want to discuss Jets attendance woes they're entitled to.

I could care less about 14000 people going to a hockey game. Or 20000 going to a hockey game.
Why is it any issue?
Them owners aren't concerned.
So they lost their sell out record... Crappy for them. Good at doesn't matter for the owners..

 

[joelef]

I don’t think the keys or any team should move I just wish Canadians were such hypocrites

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Great. Step it up Winnipeg... 2000 less fans up there is different than 1500 less fans down there?
It's not a hockey crazy town... Its a sports team. Hockey is their winter thing.
This thread is redic.

The owners aren't concerned? Have you read the title of the thread?

 

[Devils 3silverones]

The owners aren't concerned? Have you read the title of the thread?

Yes... I have. And I don't own an NHL franchise. Nor have multiple BILIIIONS as the owner of the Winnipeg Jets. They have it figured out.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Yes... I have. And I don't own an NHL franchise. Nor have multiple BILIIIONS as the owner of the Winnipeg Jets. They have it figured out.

You don't own a franchise? Well, better shut it down then.

Seriously though, again, ownership has had interviews discussing revenue and attendance. Are they concerned? Probably not ruining their lives or even keeping them awake at night, but they are concerned enough to publicly ask for help. If you don't want to be a part of the conversation, that's neat. But just like a lot of the threads in the Business of Hockey forum, it's relevant.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

The gloating , vitriol and anti southern hate from the Canadians, eapecially those from Manitboa and Winnipeg in late 2011 (that still continues to this day) was very real.

The Jet’s refusal to acknowledge Thrashers history reinforces this.

I would rather lose to Hamas than the Jets.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

You don't own a franchise? Well, better shut it down then.

Seriously though, again, ownership has had interviews discussing revenue and attendance. Are they concerned? Probably not ruining their lives or even keeping them awake at night, but they are concerned enough to publicly ask for help. If you don't want to be a part of the conversation, that's neat. But just like a lot of the threads in the Business of Hockey forum, it's relevant.

Yet... The beat goes on.
It is only relevant to this thread.
TNSE aren't reading it. Nor are Atlanta.. Quebec.. Or ... Fill in the blank.
If you choose to debate with other posts, great, yes your comment counts. Does it matters? No.
So them Jets didn't sell out.
Ooops.. Bad on Winnipeg.
Ok. So.. Now what?...
What is your end goal on this?

They didn't sell out... And....?

Tonight. In Anaheim... Out of a city of millions, hockey fans, Stanley cup winner...

No other hockey or events on...

Crickets.

 

[TheLegend]

Yet... The beat goes on.
It is only relevant to this thread.
TNSE aren't reading it. Nor are Atlanta.. Quebec.. Or ... Fill in the blank.
If you choose to debate with other posts, great, yes your comment counts. Does it matters? No.
So them Jets didn't sell out.
Ooops.. Bad on Winnipeg.
Ok. So.. Now what?...
What is your end goal on this?

They didn't sell out... And....?

Tonight. In Anaheim... Out of a city of millions, hockey fans, Stanley cup winner...

No other hockey or events on...

Crickets.

Anahiem fans never ran around the internet and other hockey sites for years spilling ill will towards other fan bases either. So whatever happened at the Honda Center tonight is a non-sequitur.

You're missing the point here about how fans from Atlanta felt being on the recipient end of "not being worthy of an NHL franchise" for years from fans (of another market who now have their former team) is now going through some similar issues that they were told "would never happen".

If you think this thread is hostile..... if Arizona gets the arena situation resolved you better look for a bunker.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Anahiem fans never ran around the internet and other hockey sites for years spilling ill will towards other fan bases either. So whatever happened at the Honda Center tonight is a non-sequitur.

You're missing the point here about how fans from Atlanta felt being on the recipient end of "not being worthy of an NHL franchise" for years from fans (of another market who now have their former team) is now going through some similar issues that they were told "would never happen".

If you think this thread is hostile..... if Arizona gets the arena situation resolved you better look for a bunker.

@TheLegend ,

Happy New Year..
I am not oblivious to what the "feelings" are of a city who has lost a team. Or a city that has gotten a team.
Do you believe, or think, the NHL Jets are in a situation, that they (tnse) will be moving the franchise because the fans didn't purchase enough tickets in the what, 13th year off existence?
And ya know me from the yotes stuff...

The Jets are not going anywhere.. We all know this.
Its not a canadian small market in a big league for no reason.
Its an owner who will keep them there because they want to. And can pay..
Message board fans can type all the feelings they want.
Much like the coyote fans do.

This isn't a are they moving thread. This is a bunch of people typing opinions.
And they aren't.
Missing 2000-3000 fans... Still not hurting the team.
Unheard of... Sure. Again.. Bad on Winnipeg. And.... What do them owners do?..
They are fine.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Yes everybody knows the owners are fine they are filthy rich , the point is these western canadians chirped southern teams for YEARS and now they can't go to games because groceries are too expensive boohoo lol talk about being a hypocrite. You even have Jets fans in here saying theres other sports in winnipeg talking about their rinkidink AHL CHL and CFL clubs being on par with the jets in the city

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Yet... The beat goes on.
It is only relevant to this thread.
TNSE aren't reading it. Nor are Atlanta.. Quebec.. Or ... Fill in the blank.
If you choose to debate with other posts, great, yes your comment counts. Does it matters? No.
So them Jets didn't sell out.
Ooops.. Bad on Winnipeg.
Ok. So.. Now what?...
What is your end goal on this?

They didn't sell out... And....?

Tonight. In Anaheim... Out of a city of millions, hockey fans, Stanley cup winner...

No other hockey or events on...

Crickets.

You do understand that this is a hockey chat board, right?

You could write that same narrative for every thread in here. Are GM's reading the trade proposals? Is a certain player reading the thread trashing his play? Is the committee reading opinions about what may have been an illegal hit? No. However, these are all topics relevant to hockey fans. Just like a team's ownership asking for corporate revenue help at the same time a team which has sold out their small arena for years is not doing so any more is relevant to "the business of hockey".

Sorry you're so offended by this. If you feel news about Anaheim having low attendance last night is a relevant topic to the business of hockey, well nobody is stopping you from creating a post.