Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[Voight]

Everyone assumed it was expansion, but how wild would it be if the Thrashers returned home with the Carter-led ownership group? This board would Melt. Down.

David Thomson is worth $52 billion dollars. He has MORE than enough dough to cover any losses.

 

[Voight]

Also probably doesn’t help when you treat the people who are paying you like shit



This is very reminiscent of what I experienced with the Flyers. Not necessarily poor customer service, but consumers are going to sniff out when ownership feels they are entitled to your money. When I opted out, they didn’t really do anything to try and get me back other than a couple copy-and-paste emails.

"Dear Valued Customer"

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

David Thomson is worth $52 billion dollars. He has MORE than enough dough to cover any losses.

He most certainly does. But as stated, that doesn’t mean he wants any investment turning in negative revenue. Ownership wouldn’t have made the statement they did in the OP if it wasn’t a problem

 

[Voight]

The Jets are looking for more corporate support currently only 15% of sst are corporate, compared to the other teams in Canada the low is 45% the high is 85%. Jets are going no where!

Its unfortunate for them that they on a city that just doesn't have that many corporate options.

Anddddd now you know why the NHL isn't rushing back to Quebec city. If Edmonton has times of struggling there is no way Winnipeg, Quebec City, Hamilton, Toronto2 won't have the same problem. Especially a second team in Toronto when the city isn't much of a hockey town but more so a town that loves the leafs from a hockey standpoint.

I wouldn't group Hamilton or a 2nd Toronto team with the others.

According to Chipman they have lost 3,000 STHs since Covid hit. And of the 3,000... 2,000 season tickets were from businesses, and 1,000 were joe fan.

So they definitely need the business community to come on board again, but it is taking time for these businesses to recover from Covid.

Of note, there are only 8 teams out of 32 at 100% capacity.

Inflation is at a 40 year high which doesn't help. Some people cant even afford rent or food for their kids let alone buy hockey tickets.

Winnipeg also has the smallest capacity in the league. They need to be selling out.

Arizona....

 

[Channelcat]

He most certainly does. But as stated, that doesn’t mean he wants any investment turning in negative revenue. Ownership wouldn’t have made the statement they did in the OP if it wasn’t a problem

From the few interviews with Thomson that I've heard, he seems rather fond of his little hockey team. I don't think he's too worried about it either.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

From the few interviews with Thomson that I've heard, he seems rather fond of his little hockey team. I don't think he's too worried about it either.

Maybe...but again, this thread doesn't exist if ownership didn't publicly raise red flags.

 

[RoyalAir]

Maybe...but again, this thread doesn't exist if ownership didn't publicly raise red flags.

I don't think anyone seriously believes the Thrashers are returning to Atlanta after a stop in Winnipeg.

It's a fun mental exercise, is all. The Jets will stay in Manitoba into perpetuity.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I don't think anyone seriously believes the Thrashers are returning to Atlanta after a stop in Winnipeg.

It's a fun mental exercise, is all. The Jets will stay in Manitoba into perpetuity.

Yep...stated the same thing a number of times. But again, several years in a row of low corporate revenue and 14K-ish attendance and ownership will likely get very antsy. I wouldn't have thought ownership would publicly come out and tell the fans that, in order to keep the team in Winnipeg, they need their support...but here we are.

 

[OG6ix]

Its unfortunate for them that they on a city that just doesn't have that many corporate options.



I wouldn't group Hamilton or a 2nd Toronto team with the others.



Inflation is at a 40 year high which doesn't help. Some people cant even afford rent or food for their kids let alone buy hockey tickets.



Arizona....

I would not put a team in a city like Hamilton given the demographics. Also, I don't think Toronto 2 would be a success because people think Toronto is a hockey town. It's not... there is leafs fandom and that's about it. The GTA has changed A LOT in terms of demographics. Just look at Maple leaf square vs Jays/Raptors/TFC crowd. I was at Maple Leaf square for the first round and, from my experience, a ton of the hardcores there came in from outside of the GTA - Places like Barrie, Aurora, Oshawa, and Uxbridge were places people were from that I met. Might be a small sample size but just from living in multiple places in the GTA it doesn't seem like that passion growing up in the late 80s and well into the 90s.

 

[RoyalAir]

Yep...stated the same thing a number of times. But again, several years in a row of low corporate revenue and 14K-ish attendance and ownership will likely get very antsy. I wouldn't have thought ownership would publicly come out and tell the fans that, in order to keep the team in Winnipeg, they need their support...but here we are.

You and me are on the same page, and have been through the duration of these threads.

In hindsight, I should have responded to the individual who was Bragging about Thomson's money.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I have been to a couple of business related luncheons and Chipman's main concern is the lack of support of the business community when it comes to season tickets. The "fans" bought tickets and carried them in the early years and now that that has run its course they want the business community to step up and start buying season tickets.

He was pretty open about the fact that they all have been making a lot of money during and since the pandemic and it is time to start "sharing" the wealth.

Be interesting to see what happens

 

[Headshot77]

I would not put a team in a city like Hamilton given the demographics. Also, I don't think Toronto 2 would be a success because people think Toronto is a hockey town. It's not... there is leafs fandom and that's about it. The GTA has changed A LOT in terms of demographics. Just look at Maple leaf square vs Jays/Raptors/TFC crowd. I was at Maple Leaf square for the first round and, from my experience, a ton of the hardcores there came in from outside of the GTA - Places like Barrie, Aurora, Oshawa, and Uxbridge were places people were from that I met. Might be a small sample size but just from living in multiple places in the GTA it doesn't seem like that passion growing up in the late 80s and well into the 90s.

Yeah because the team has been middling for 50+ years. Now is the perfect time for an expansion team to go to the GTA and when they go to the ECF several times they can scoop up all those atrophied Leafs fans

 

[Yukon Joe]

To start, tucker is right...Nobody believes the Jets are moving anytime soon. The only news/discussion taken from this thread is that small market teams, even in Canada, can and will struggle at times. But overall, the team is fine and staying put.

Having said that, I disagree with the notion that ownership is thinking that other investments will offset losses and all is fine. They're C-Suite business people. Everything better be making money. If attendance and corporate $$ continue to be this low for several years, the first couple sentences in this post will be null and void. And the point about the team being 6X what they paid for it is a great point, but certainly doesn't help show the team would never sell. Again, at the end of the day...business people.

I disagree that "everything better be making money". Businesses certainly understand the idea of a "loss leader". In retail you advertise a certain good at a below-cost price just to get people into the store, on the belief that people will buy other goods as well that more than make up for the money you lose on the advertised good.

I'm not privy to TNSE's thoughts, but it's possible to see how they might think that way with the Jets. That the Jets themselves might lose money, but it is more than made up for by all the people they bring to downtown Winnipeg which then drives businesses in the area around the arena. If the Jets left would then also be diminished.

Like I said all speculation.

 

[Yukon Joe]

From the few interviews with Thomson that I've heard, he seems rather fond of his little hockey team. I don't think he's too worried about it either.

If you've seen interviews with David Thomson I would love to read them, because he gives virtually no interviews. Profiles of him state he almost never gives interviews. The only references I can find to a David Thomson interview is reference to an interview he gave in the mid-90s about Upper Canada College where he went to school.

As far as I know he's spoke exactly once about the Jets when he was part of the press conference announcing the return of the Jets in 2011. He answered one question from Gary Lawless where yes he spoke about the importance of the team to the community.

But that's it as far as I know. He never speaks about the Jets. There is a piece of video now from several years ago of him and Chipman in a private suite watching the game, and at some kind of exciting conclusion he does seem very into it, but I hesitate to read too much into that bit of video.

 

[Channelcat]

If you've seen interviews with David Thomson I would love to read them, because he gives virtually no interviews. Profiles of him state he almost never gives interviews. The only references I can find to a David Thomson interview is reference to an interview he gave in the mid-90s about Upper Canada College where he went to school.

As far as I know he's spoke exactly once about the Jets when he was part of the press conference announcing the return of the Jets in 2011. He answered one question from Gary Lawless where yes he spoke about the importance of the team to the community.

But that's it as far as I know. He never speaks about the Jets. There is a piece of video now from several years ago of him and Chipman in a private suite watching the game, and at some kind of exciting conclusion he does seem very into it, but I hesitate to read too much into that bit of video.

There's one from the Globe shortly after the Thrasher purchase, not much there, but very interesting. There are others as well. You're correct however, he keeps a very low profile.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I have been to a couple of business related luncheons and Chipman's main concern is the lack of support of the business community when it comes to season tickets. The "fans" bought tickets and carried them in the early years and now that that has run its course they want the business community to step up and start buying season tickets.

He was pretty open about the fact that they all have been making a lot of money during and since the pandemic and it is time to start "sharing" the wealth.

Be interesting to see what happens

The bolded is something that you might say (tactfully and indirectly) as CEO of a public charity.

Not a good talking point for a businessman speaking to other businessmen. His profit line is not their problem. He either has a product that they want to spend money on, or he doesn't.

This has strong shades of Peter Karmanos. Not implying relocation, but in terms of ham-handed PR mistakes by a guy who's kind of playing at being a sports owner.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I disagree that "everything better be making money". Businesses certainly understand the idea of a "loss leader". In retail you advertise a certain good at a below-cost price just to get people into the store, on the belief that people will buy other goods as well that more than make up for the money you lose on the advertised good.

I'm not privy to TNSE's thoughts, but it's possible to see how they might think that way with the Jets. That the Jets themselves might lose money, but it is more than made up for by all the people they bring to downtown Winnipeg which then drives businesses in the area around the arena. If the Jets left would then also be diminished.

Like I said all speculation.

Possibly, but the fact that ownership has been asking other businesses to buy more tickets and increase sponsorship tells me they're not going to be using other investments to prop up the team forever.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

The bolded is something that you might say (tactfully and indirectly) as CEO of a public charity.

Not a good talking point for a businessman speaking to other businessmen. His profit line is not their problem. He either has a product that they want to spend money on, or he doesn't.

This has strong shades of Peter Karmanos. Not implying relocation, but in terms of ham-handed PR mistakes by a guy who's kind of playing at being a sports owner.

I think your right but at the same time Winnipeg is such a tight knit business community I can see why he is saying it

Plus they are putting in some big investment dollars in downtown Winnipeg too(True North) so I think what he is saying it is time to invest in the city and each other

 

[Yukon Joe]

Possibly, but the fact that ownership has been asking other businesses to buy more tickets and increase sponsorship tells me they're not going to be using other investments to prop up the team forever.

Why not? As long as you're making more money elsewhere that more than makes up for what the team is losing there's no reason why they can't do it forever.

Now the assumption here is that TNSE (and Osmington's) other investments around downtown are boosted by the fact the Jets bring all these people into downtown Winnipeg. If they no longer feel that is the case then all bets are off.

All of that being said, of course, TNSE still wants to minimize it's losses (if in fact there are losses), which still explains the sales pitch by Chipman.

 

[OG6ix]

David Thomson is worth $52 billion dollars. He has MORE than enough dough to cover any losses.

His family has a lot of money... having said that why does he only own a minority stake? Why not just own the whole thing? Doesn't seem like he would be the type to eat losses if he didn't even front the entire or even the majority of the amount.

 

[Yukon Joe]

His family has a lot of money... having said that why does he only own a minority stake? Why not just own the whole thing? Doesn't seem like he would be the type to eat losses if he didn't even front the entire or even the majority of the amount.

It's never been stated who owns how much of TNSE.

Personally I strongly suspect that Thomson is the majority owner, but because he has no interest or skill in being a hands-on sports owner he's quite happy for Chipman to be the face of the ownership team. That is nothing more than an educated guess however.

 

[Voight]

It's never been stated who owns how much of TNSE.

Personally I strongly suspect that Thomson is the majority owner, but because he has no interest or skill in being a hands-on sports owner he's quite happy for Chipman to be the face of the ownership team. That is nothing more than an educated guess however.

When they bought the team there was somewhat of a concuss across the hockey world that Thomson was the "money guy" (aka majority stake) and given how private he is, had no issues with Chipman being the face of the ownership group.

 

[jetsv2]

It's not hard to see that Thomson has more control than Chipman and is probably the outright majority owner.

If you look at the TNSE website you can see that Thomson controls 3 of the 6 board seats on the TNSE board and Chipman only controls 2. That gives Thomson more control than Chipman.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Let's put two and two together here. Thomson is literally one of richest men on the planet. You could fit all the people wealthier than him into one room. He is clearly the money behind the operations. And it's not surprising that for someone of his means, the Jets are trivial to him. He probably hasn't lost a minute of sleep over the season ticket renewal rate and what it might mean to the bottom line, etc.

Chipman no doubt has a significant ownership interest, but at the end of the day he is effectively the operator of Thomson's NHL franchise.

Regarding Chipman's comments about 'sharing the wealth', yeah, it sounds gross at first blush. The idea that some mom and pop agricultural company must buy tickets to placate Thomson, Chipman and guys like Blake Wheeler seems off putting. But the dynamics in Winnipeg and other smaller markets, especially in Canada, are weird. The team is not just a pro franchise, it is in many ways the city's face to the world and a big part of its identity. Or at least it's perceived as such. Even though the NHL barely moves the needle in the US and arguably doesn't at all outside of North America, it's still regarded as important to maintain a presence in top tier pro sports.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Regarding Chipman's comments about 'sharing the wealth', yeah, it sounds gross at first blush. The idea that some mom and pop agricultural company must buy tickets to placate Thomson, Chipman and guys like Blake Wheeler seems off putting. But the dynamics in Winnipeg and other smaller markets, especially in Canada, are weird. The team is not just a pro franchise, it is in many ways the city's face to the world and a big part of its identity. Or at least it's perceived as such. Even though the NHL barely moves the needle in the US and arguably doesn't at all outside of North America, it's still regarded as important to maintain a presence in top tier pro sports.

There was a tremendous sense of loss in 1996 when the Jets left. It went well beyond "we like hockey and we'll miss the team" - it was seen kind of as a sense of Winnipeg's demise as any kind of major city, and a sign of decline. It played at least some part in my leaving town a few years later.

By 2011 there was a huge sense of "we need to support this team to make sure it never leaves again", at least amongst the people I spoke with. This didn't just come from Chipman (though he did make comments like that as well), but from ordinary people as well.

So when Chipman says stuff like that - I know some (particularly on hfboards) took offence, but I don't think it would be taken the same way in Winnipeg itself.

@jetsmooseice I know you know this - I'm just expanding on your point.