Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[joestevens29]

If corporations couldn't write it off for tax purposes, would they be so inclined?

Yeah. I was just thinking aloud though, not suggesting it. As a fan, it would be nice though. I'm OK with NHL players making an average of $2 million instead of $3.5 million.

Having said that, I don't begrudge a business doing what a business is going to do to be a profitable one.

You know now thinking about it, it really does kind of suck though ever since the Oilers went big time corporate and lost a lot of season ticket holders. Not just personal, but small businesses use to buy them all the time.

As a 12-14 year old I use to go to about 5-8 games a year from my Uncle's boss who had tickets. Free.

As a 16-32 year old another uncle had 4 seats. I'd either be able to buy them for $50 a ticket or he'd take me. He quit after year one at new barn. Even old arena he wasn't happy that his tickets went from $60 to $120 over the years. Probably 12 games a year I'd go to back then.

Not even sure how old when my buddies co-worker had tickets and he'd sell them for $50 a ticket, even though they were $80 tickets. Would go to about 10 games that way.

Then there would be other various people that you could get tickets for free or at a major discount.

The games as I got older were fun and all, but when I was younger those games were so amazing. With the prices now, there is no way that people would be that generous. Lots of kids don't get that option nowadays.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

You know now thinking about it, it really does kind of suck though ever since the Oilers went big time corporate and lost a lot of season ticket holders. Not just personal, but small businesses use to buy them all the time.

As a 12-14 year old I use to go to about 5-8 games a year from my Uncle's boss who had tickets. Free.

As a 16-32 year old another uncle had 4 seats. I'd either be able to buy them for $50 a ticket or he'd take me. He quit after year one at new barn. Even old arena he wasn't happy that his tickets went from $60 to $120 over the years. Probably 12 games a year I'd go to back then.

Not even sure how old when my buddies co-worker had tickets and he'd sell them for $50 a ticket, even though they were $80 tickets. Would go to about 10 games that way.

Then there would be other various people that you could get tickets for free or at a major discount.

The games as I got older were fun and all, but when I was younger those games were so amazing. With the prices now, there is no way that people would be that generous. Lots of kids don't get that option nowadays.

I can't help but think the price went up because it went from strictly hockey fans to people looking for an evening of entertainment- of which the corporations got in on

 

[joelef]

I thought having Canadian teams was suppose to be a slam dunk success and never have attendance issues ?

 

[stats1]

The Jets don’t have an attendance problem they have a corporate money problem. Corporate boxes are gold for a ownership group, you can sell out or be close to selling out but to rely on that solely as a revenue stream is risky, that’s why even with 93% attendance Chipman is concerned. Corporate boxes bring in massive amounts of money. Part of the reason why the Leafs and Rangers are the cream of the crop in money making is that corporations are willing to dump massive amounts of money into boxes, sponsorships etc. it’s a brand. Chipman is crying because he knows once this rebuild starts and attendance really starts to plummet due to the product on the ice there won’t be any corporate money as a saving grace. Once attendance drops their revenue goes out the window

Also the Jets have one of the smallest capacities in the league so if it’s not completely sold out that’s a huge revenue problem. Chipman should be finding a better promotion team than crying to the media

 

[tucker3434]

I wonder if it would be to the benefit of individual fans if businesses stopped customer entertainment purchases; perhaps that would drive prices down.

Not too many individuals are buying the boxes at center ice for a full season. I don't care how much money they have.

 

[stats1]

Just for comparison a Leafs corporate box per home game ranges from $6000-$18,000. Times that by 5 premium boxes that is between $30k-$90k every home game.

41 home games that is around $1.2 million - $3.7 million per season.

 

[cbcwpg]

According to TNSE they lost 3,000 season ticket holders due to Covid. Hard to know if this is exactly accurate, but the Jets did sell out every game from their first game until the Covid shutdown, so it makes sense.

There were also restrictions on entering the games once fans were allowed back in, that some fans took exception to, and those people blamed the team for implementing and said they would never attend games again. It was the gov't that implemented the restrictions, not the hockey team, but some people don't care so they are staying away.

The other issue is the Jets season ticket base is made up of just 15% from the corporate world. So Joe fan is doing his part, it's the business groups that need to step up more, but they were some of the biggest entities that have also been hurt by Covid.

It will take time for things to recover.

 

[madmike77]

I thought having Canadian teams was suppose to be a slam dunk success and never have attendance issues ?

Canadian interest in hockey isn’t what it once was. Don’t get me wrong - it’s still very popular, but with the rise of other entertainment options (streaming, gaming, other sports), your average Canadian isn’t as passionate about hockey as they were a few decades ago.

Canadian hockey teams depend on big corporate money to make their profits. So cities without a lot of big companies that buy the expensive boxes are going to have issues even in Canada.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

According to TNSE they lost 3,000 season ticket holders due to Covid. Hard to know if this is exactly accurate, but the Jets did sell out every game from their first game until the Covid shutdown, so it makes sense.

There were also restrictions on entering the games once fans were allowed back in, that some fans took exception to, and those people blamed the team for implementing and said they would never attend games again. It was the gov't that implemented the restrictions, not the hockey team, but some people don't care so they are staying away.

The other issue is the Jets season ticket base is made up of just 15% from the corporate world. So Joe fan is doing his part, it's the business groups that need to step up more, but they were some of the biggest entities that have also been hurt by Covid.

It will take time for things to recover.

It's too bad more businesses weren't shut down by people pissed off at them complying with the regulations rather than disregarding them and fighting against them.

I'd be willing to sacrifice the Winnioeg Jets to that cause.

I suspect the actual reason though is people just asked themselves if the tickets were worth it and/or their financial situation changed

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

According to TNSE they lost 3,000 season ticket holders due to Covid. Hard to know if this is exactly accurate, but the Jets did sell out every game from their first game until the Covid shutdown, so it makes sense.

There were also restrictions on entering the games once fans were allowed back in, that some fans took exception to, and those people blamed the team for implementing and said they would never attend games again. It was the gov't that implemented the restrictions, not the hockey team, but some people don't care so they are staying away.

The other issue is the Jets season ticket base is made up of just 15% from the corporate world. So Joe fan is doing his part, it's the business groups that need to step up more, but they were some of the biggest entities that have also been hurt by Covid.

It will take time for things to recover.

I don't agree the blame should be placed on COVID. Every market had/has to deal with the restrictions and economic fallout. Same feeling when the Thrashers moved. The Great Recession didn't help, but every team had to deal with the same economy. That wasn't the reason they became available. I also don't agree that the fans are "doing their part" in full. Attendance shows they averaged 14K, so tickets available to those fans weren't being purchased.

I DO agree that a lot of the revenue issues are because of the lack of corporate dollars. Though, I blame the small population and slowed migration growth on that. Corporations follow the population flow. That's where they invest. Couple the slow corporate growth with a bad economy and you're not going to get commitments for entertainment dollars.

The problem with small markets, despite how dedicated its fans are, is that things like bad economic cycles and periods of team rebuild (even though the Jets were a playoff team this year) are magnified huge when you have a limited pool to draw from year in and year out. Only so many $$ to go around.

In the end, the team will be fine as long as ownership stay dedicated. There is nothing better in sports than having a dedicated, rich owner which the Jets have. It's when the team is nothing but a line item on a spreadsheet when trouble can happen.

 

[Jets4Life]

I'm a little surprised that Habs are far away the most watched team, ahead of even the Leafs.

I'm also surprised that Edmonton is so far ahead of Calgary. I'm wondering if that's the McDavid effect.

From personal experience, living and working in many parts of the province, the Oilers are more popular in rural Alberta. I've been to Red Deer, Ft.McMurray, Grande Prairie, and Red Deer, and it seems the Oilers fan base eclipses the Flames fan base. Not sure about Medicine Hat and Lethbridge though..

 

[Jets4Life]

Yeah, I'd guess pretty confidently any AHL franchise that tried to make in-roads to Sask would get their asses kicked by WHL teams.

For quite some time, there was a "handshake" agreement between the WHL and the AHL, not to encroach on each other's turf. The AHL ended up violating this agreement over a decade ago, when they put a team in Abbotsford, when the WHL had the Chilliwack Bruins, less than 30 minutes away.

Today there is no such agreement, as the Winnipeg Ice and Manitoba Moose are not on friendly terms. I would not be surprised if the AHL tried to make roads into Saskatoon, if it were possible.

 

[Jets4Life]

According to TNSE they lost 3,000 season ticket holders due to Covid. Hard to know if this is exactly accurate, but the Jets did sell out every game from their first game until the Covid shutdown, so it makes sense.

The Jets sellout streak technically came to an end in October 2019, before COVID. 14,764 fans attended a game against the Arizona Coyotes, ending over 8 years of consecutive sellouts.

There were also restrictions on entering the games once fans were allowed back in, that some fans took exception to, and those people blamed the team for implementing and said they would never attend games again. It was the gov't that implemented the restrictions, not the hockey team, but some people don't care so they are staying away.

That move was BS. IIRC< that was all TNSE and had nothing to do with government regulations. I've done that in Calgary numerous times, as it's not implemented there. What was even worse, is that TNSE came up with some lame excuse, like if fans were allowed to come and go as they please, the arena's "heating costs" would go up. I'm not sure if this was the reason, but in reality, they were concerned that pubs that were within a block of the arena were cutting into the Jets concession revenue.

The other issue is the Jets season ticket base is made up of just 15% from the corporate world. So Joe fan is doing his part, it's the business groups that need to step up more, but they were some of the biggest entities that have also been hurt by Covid.

It will take time for things to recover.

TNSE really needs to get it's act together, and start making the game day experience better. For too long they ahve taken the average fan for granted.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

I was at a luncheon for Bell CEO Mirko Birbic that was held by the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce. Mark Chipman opened up the lunch and was really asking the business community of Winnipeg to step up. We have the lowest amount of season tickets purchased by businesses in the NHL. He was pretty forthright that everyone in the room has made a lot of money during and since the pandemic and that they need to step up and spend some of it.

Talk like that drives Sponsors away. They don't like to be told how to spend their money.

 

[Channelcat]

With Mark Chipman announcing today another 600M delevopment across from Canada Life Center, I think we can say that this franchise isn't going anywhere.

 

[jetsv2]

With Mark Chipman announcing today another 600M delevopment across from Canada Life Center, I think we can say that this franchise isn't going anywhere.

Anyone who was paying attention before already knew this. This is the 3rd major real estate project that TNSE has been involved with in the area immediately around the arena. Losing a few million on the Jets is massively offset by the money they are raking in from real estate around their arena, nevermind that they only paid 170 million for the team and after the Ottawa sale it might be worth 800+ million.

 

[sawchuk1971]

With Mark Chipman announcing today another 600M delevopment across from Canada Life Center, I think we can say that this franchise isn't going anywhere.

link?

 

[tucker3434]

I don’t think anyone was under the impression that the jets were being put up for sale next week. Commercial real estate is bought and sold all the time. I don’t think we’re learning anything new from that.

 

[Channelcat]

I don’t think anyone was under the impression that the jets were being put up for sale next week. Commercial real estate is bought and sold all the time. I don’t think we’re learning anything new from that.

Yes. Yes we are.

 

[Channelcat]

link?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/portage-place-true-north-reaction-1.6841551

 

[tucker3434]

Yes. Yes we are.

No we’re not. Nobody was under the impression that TNSE wasn’t committed to Winnipeg.

 

[Channelcat]

No we’re not. Nobody was under the impression that TNSE wasn’t committed to Winnipeg.

Ah. I misunderstood. Yes, Chipman has been very clear about his downtown development plans with the Jets being the centerpiece.

 

[sawchuk1971]

coulda used the 600 million for a new arena..

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Anyone who was paying attention before already knew this. This is the 3rd major real estate project that TNSE has been involved with in the area immediately around the arena. Losing a few million on the Jets is massively offset by the money they are raking in from real estate around their arena, nevermind that they only paid 170 million for the team and after the Ottawa sale it might be worth 800+ million.

I don’t think anyone was under the impression that the jets were being put up for sale next week. Commercial real estate is bought and sold all the time. I don’t think we’re learning anything new from that.

To start, tucker is right...Nobody believes the Jets are moving anytime soon. The only news/discussion taken from this thread is that small market teams, even in Canada, can and will struggle at times. But overall, the team is fine and staying put.

Having said that, I disagree with the notion that ownership is thinking that other investments will offset losses and all is fine. They're C-Suite business people. Everything better be making money. If attendance and corporate $$ continue to be this low for several years, the first couple sentences in this post will be null and void. And the point about the team being 6X what they paid for it is a great point, but certainly doesn't help show the team would never sell. Again, at the end of the day...business people.

 

[tucker3434]

To start, tucker is right...Nobody believes the Jets are moving anytime soon. The only news/discussion taken from this thread is that small market teams, even in Canada, can and will struggle at times. But overall, the team is fine and staying put.

Having said that, I disagree with the notion that ownership is thinking that other investments will offset losses and all is fine. They're C-Suite business people. Everything better be making money. If attendance and corporate $$ continue to be this low for several years, the first couple sentences in this post will be null and void. And the point about the team being 6X what they paid for it is a great point, but certainly doesn't help show the team would never sell. Again, at the end of the day...business people.

If either 1. The attendance/corporate support issues resolve themselves on their own or 2. The real estate development funnels more people and corporate funds into the jets, success. The Jets will never leave. But one way or another, the team needs to stand on its own eventually. TNSE may very well be willing to absorb any potential jets losses indefinitely due to their other ventures, but prospective future buyers wouldn’t have that same luxury.

It’s all a very long way down the road though.