Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[Teemusalami204]

We could have 6 hedmans and we would still struggle as long as Connor sheif and wheeler are half of our top 6

No matter who sheif plays against he gets eaten alive. Connor is even worse then him defensively and wheeler as well.

One of these three has to go imo. This team needs at least one of its top 6 lines to be able to match up against other top 6 lines.

 

[DRW204]

our two highest paid players at their position (wheeler and morrissey) rank near the bottom of the league in individual defense. also add Connor

scheifele's numbers looked better when he got away from the 2 defensive anchors, we'll see how CSW fairs......

Edit: also - how often do we see CSW+top-pair out there? NO ONE CAN PLAY DEFENSE. & their offense doesn't overcome it. that's 3 of the worst individual defensive players in the league, + Scheifele + Poolman on the ice at once. *shudders*

anyway, team-defense is problem. it's been a problem in all but 2 seasons (14-15, 17-18).

 

[DRW204]

it's early,

but haven't been impressed with our play from the back-end thus far overall. Schmidt has had moments showing off his great puck-moving but defensively i just dont see him and Morrissey as a good fit. I was kinda worried about this prior to the season as neither have rated as good at defense the past few years, however, thought Schmidts puck moving can net them positive most nights. He/they've struggled in his own end imo. Morrissey had a nice PP goal (nice puck movement to get Gibson moving prior) last night and was really engaged offensively in game 1.

Dillon is physical which is nice but haven't been enamored by anything else, and given he's Pionk best partner to-date (the guy's been given Kulikov, Sbisa, Forbort ), was expecting an additional step from Pionk's game. Stanley , and Demelo kind of just does his thing.... don't really notice him, nothing flashy, just kinda plays smart and doesn't put himself in bad spots. there's like no offensive production there, but at this point in his career i don't think he will ever put up offensive totals.

it will take games to gel for sure, but just commenting on what i've seen to date & the on-ice stats/production bear out.

they're still netting out positive on the goal side (after last night), but the chances given up is concerning. especially considering our schedule has been 3 rebuild teams+MIN so far. Think against teams w/ better shooting talent, if they don't tighten up or helle isn't standing on his head (basically if it's Helle from the first two games) could run into trouble. fully aware every game won't be a Picasso, but still see the same defensive issues (both at 5v5 or PK) that persist with this team (not sure if others feel different)

 

[Ducky10]

Individually all of them can still raise their games a bit and gelling as effective partners takes time.

That said, I still think the system they are being asked to play is a problem and the subsequent breakout is causing a lot of broken plays. The spacing with the forwards has been a mess and that lies almost entirely with the forwards.

I expect more familiarity will bring better play from them with each passing game. The rest won’t be solved until Maurice is gone imo.

 

[Adam da bomb]

it's early,

but haven't been impressed with our play from the back-end thus far overall. Schmidt has had moments showing off his great puck-moving but defensively i just dont see him and Morrissey as a good fit. I was kinda worried about this prior to the season as neither have rated as good at defense the past few years, however, thought Schmidts puck moving can net them positive most nights. He/they've struggled in his own end imo. Morrissey had a nice PP goal (nice puck movement to get Gibson moving prior) last night and was really engaged offensively in game 1.

Dillon is physical which is nice but haven't been enamored by anything else, and given he's Pionk best partner to-date (the guy's been given Kulikov, Sbisa, Forbort ), was expecting an additional step from Pionk's game. Stanley , and Demelo kind of just does his thing.... don't really notice him, nothing flashy, just kinda plays smart and doesn't put himself in bad spots. there's like no offensive production there, but at this point in his career i don't think he will ever put up offensive totals.

it will take games to gel for sure, but just commenting on what i've seen to date & the on-ice stats/production bear out.

they're still netting out positive on the goal side (after last night), but the chances given up is concerning. especially considering our schedule has been 3 rebuild teams+MIN so far. Think against teams w/ better shooting talent, if they don't tighten up or helle isn't standing on his head (basically if it's Helle from the first two games) could run into trouble. fully aware every game won't be a Picasso, but still see the same defensive issues (both at 5v5 or PK) that persist with this team (not sure if others feel different)

Yep feel different I’ve liked Stanley.

 

[sipowicz]

Yep feel different I’ve liked Stanley.

Stanley’s looked more impressive than either Schmidt or Dillon aside from Stan’s first outing!

 

[DRW204]

Individually all of them can still raise their games a bit and gelling as effective partners takes time.

That said, I still think the system they are being asked to play is a problem and the subsequent breakout is causing a lot of broken plays. The spacing with the forwards has been a mess and that lies almost entirely with the forwards.

I expect more familiarity will bring better play from them with each passing game. The rest won’t be solved until Maurice is gone imo.

yea to me, we have 5 second pair dmen inidivudally and Stanley (hard to categorize where he's at given it's only been 40 NHL games, & a heavily sheltered role).

but there's 3 others skaters on the ice that need to contribute defensively, and a system to take into account.

the same issue persists year in year out, and it's different nhl personnel..... it is probably a system thing.

 

[MardyBum]

Individually all of them can still raise their games a bit and gelling as effective partners takes time.

That said, I still think the system they are being asked to play is a problem and the subsequent breakout is causing a lot of broken plays. The spacing with the forwards has been a mess and that lies almost entirely with the forwards.

I expect more familiarity will bring better play from them with each passing game. The rest won’t be solved until Maurice is gone imo.

So many times last night the Ducks dumped it in, 2 Jets dmen back there and they either A) Hold the puck too long and end up throwing a foot high pass at a forward's legs (because the forward is so GD far away) or B) Hold the puck too long and just clear it off the boards to repeat until A.

Whether they had 2-3 seconds before a Ducks player got there or 6-7 seconds it was the same thing.

Once they actually get transitioning it's looked solid, but getting that set up is such a mess.

 

[MardyBum]

Stanley’s looked more impressive than either Schmidt or Dillon aside from Stan’s first outing!

Stanley and DeMelo definitely looking like the most solid pairing in the Dzone.

Not a good thing considering they're locked into the third pair

 

[DRW204]

Stanley and DeMelo definitely looking like the most solid pairing in the Dzone.

Not a good thing considering they're locked into the third pair

idk stanley hasn't been great in the dzone to me id say average? and offensively he's so frustrating at times. i haven't seen much growth in his offensive game since last year. guy has 1 move, throw a low % shot w/o screen, or any Jets fwds net-front.... this is a bit on the Jets fwds since they aren't getting net-front, however, there are other plays he can make rather than throwing a wrister on net that ends in a whistle, probably the lowest % shot considering no net-front presense.

 

[MardyBum]

idk stanley hasn't been great in the dzone to me id say average? and offensively he's so frustrating at times. i haven't seen much growth in his offensive game since last year. guy has 1 move, throw a low % shot w/o screen, or any Jets fwds net-front.... this is a bit on the Jets fwds since they aren't getting net-front, however, there are other plays he can make rather than throwing a wrister on net that ends in a whistle, probably the lowest % shot considering no net-front presense.

He's the king of low danger point shots, gotta keep that crown

 

[Neuf]

idk stanley hasn't been great in the dzone to me id say average? and offensively he's so frustrating at times. i haven't seen much growth in his offensive game since last year. guy has 1 move, throw a low % shot w/o screen, or any Jets fwds net-front.... this is a bit on the Jets fwds since they aren't getting net-front, however, there are other plays he can make rather than throwing a wrister on net that ends in a whistle, probably the lowest % shot considering no net-front presense.

The one caveat on that is that Stanley seems to be the one Jets defenseman that can hit the net from the blueline. I don't even know if previous Jets could do it as often as he seems to.

As you say, that shot either needs to be tipped, screened, or Weber'd so that we get goals instead of whistles.

 

[DRW204]

The one caveat on that is that Stanley seems to be the one Jets defenseman that can hit the net from the blueline. I don't even know if previous Jets could do it as often as he seems to.

As you say, that shot either needs to be tipped, screened, or Weber'd so that we get goals instead of whistles.

he hits the net roughly the same rate as our other dmen. would actually rather him miss and hit the boards and cause some sort of rebound rather than low % wristers from the point w/ 0 traffic which usually results in a whistle.... or make some sort of other play.

 

[Adam da bomb]

idk stanley hasn't been great in the dzone to me id say average? and offensively he's so frustrating at times. i haven't seen much growth in his offensive game since last year. guy has 1 move, throw a low % shot w/o screen, or any Jets fwds net-front.... this is a bit on the Jets fwds since they aren't getting net-front, however, there are other plays he can make rather than throwing a wrister on net that ends in a whistle, probably the lowest % shot considering no net-front presense.

Not true one time he went low and threw the puck in front and it almost worked. Another time he made a nice pass to Ehlers.

 

[Adam da bomb]

idk stanley hasn't been great in the dzone to me id say average? and offensively he's so frustrating at times. i haven't seen much growth in his offensive game since last year. guy has 1 move, throw a low % shot w/o screen, or any Jets fwds net-front.... this is a bit on the Jets fwds since they aren't getting net-front, however, there are other plays he can make rather than throwing a wrister on net that ends in a whistle, probably the lowest % shot considering no net-front presense.

So average gets you to post a help emoji?

 

[LowLefty]

I don't see major issues with our D -
How we operate in our zone is a mix of issues IMO

Our D are moving the puck to our forwards - mainly in short chip plays
The forwards are not handling that pass well - or - they are trying to move it up ice without an option.
Why they don't send it back to the D to settle things down is confusing - there seems to be a need to move forward even when there is no option to make a play or hit a forward with a reasonable pass.

The other issue I see is our right side offence - last count, I believe we have 3 of our 4 forward pairs using a left shot winger on the right side.
This makes any pass around or close to the wall, really difficult to execute - we tend to fumble a lot on the right side and the opposition knows it - they are loading up on that side.
I watched us struggle on the right wall (or right side) all night - nothing crisp and in most cases, we struggled to move the play up ice. It's tough picking up passes and making plays on your back hand when there is very little time (and the Ducks gave us very little time).

These are the issues we have when we regain possession in our end - without the puck is another story.

We are not nearly aggressive enough when working our end without the puck.
Most are calling out the system - I don't think that is the root of the problem.
If you are playing stationary hockey as defenders, you will not see much of the puck regardless of systems.
If you are not working as hard (or harder) that the crew that is cycling against you, you will not regain possession - and the system is not to blame.

The ducks made us look very slow and very disorganized in our end - they are fast and they are committed to winning puck battles - we are not.

 

[DRW204]

So average gets you to post a help emoji?

he's been bad on offense, and not great on defense in a v sheltered role. id say based on expectations and context yes?

 

[Adam da bomb]

he's been bad on offense, and not great on defense in a v sheltered role. id say based on expectations and context yes?

Sounds like a 3rd pairing d. Also I disagree with your assessment of bad. Small sample but one time he went down low and set up Toninato in front of net. Another time he made a nice pass to Ehlers so offensively, meh, but,3rd pairing. He’s been our best pk d and on 1st pk unit so hard to argue sheltered. He’s been physical and it hasn’t cost team.

 

[DRW204]

Sounds like a 3rd pairing d. Also I disagree with your assessment of bad. Small sample but one time he went down low and set up Toninato in front of net. He’s been our best pk d and on 1st pk unit so hard to argue sheltered. He’s been physical and it hasn’t cost team.

sure, if one play going down low is your validation of him being some offensive messiah go ahead

im talking 5v5, and our PK sucks so perhaps maybe he shouldn't be on there.

 

[Adam da bomb]

sure, if one play going down low is your validation of him being some offensive messiah go ahead

im talking 5v5, and our PK sucks so perhaps maybe he shouldn't be on there.

No one said he is the offensive messiah that is moving the goal posts. I would say you would be accurate if you said he is a bottom 6, been better than we've had in the past, not as good as some. What more do you want?

 

[LowLefty]

sure, if one play going down low is your validation of him being some offensive messiah go ahead

im talking 5v5, and our PK sucks so perhaps maybe he shouldn't be on there.

At least these single specifics are specific rather than calling out a player based on general overall "bad on offense" and "not great on defense" comments -
Stanley looks fine to me - I have no idea why he is even being discussed as being a problem of any sort out there.
He plays third pair and holds his own IMO - I don't get why "sheltered" even comes into the discussion unless all 3rd pair d are sheltered and need to be called out for that handicap now and then.
Serves no purpose

 

[surixon]

Our defense to me is largely systems and cohesion related.

We need to ditch M2M and our forwards and dmen need to get on the same page. Our forwards fly the zone too quickly and the spacing between our forwards dmen is wide. That is forcing our dmen to scramble on turn overs exiting the zone and prevents our dmen from hard gapping in the nz.

 

[DRW204]

No one said he is the offensive messiah that is moving the goal posts. I would say you would be accurate if you said he is a bottom 6, been better than we've had in the past, not as good as some. What more do you want?

bottom6? what are you talking about.

if you think his offense has been impressive, we are never going to agree. as a 2nd year player, and the only guy w/ the identical partner as last year his game has been underwhelming imo, especially considering i thought last year he was admirable in that role. perhaps using was a tad harsh, although i don't think so when considering his all-around game.

 

[Ducky10]

I don't see major issues with our D -
How we operate in our zone is a mix of issues IMO

Our D are moving the puck to our forwards - mainly in short chip plays
The forwards are not handling that pass well - or - they are trying to move it up ice without an option.
Why they don't send it back to the D to settle things down is confusing - there seems to be a need to move forward even when there is no option to make a play or hit a forward with a reasonable pass.

The other issue I see is our right side offence - last count, I believe we have 3 of our 4 forward pairs using a left shot winger on the right side.
This makes any pass around or close to the wall, really difficult to execute - we tend to fumble a lot on the right side and the opposition knows it - they are loading up on that side.
I watched us struggle on the right wall (or right side) all night - nothing crisp and in most cases, we struggled to move the play up ice. It's tough picking up passes and making plays on your back hand when there is very little time (and the Ducks gave us very little time).

These are the issues we have when we regain possession in our end - without the puck is another story.

We are not nearly aggressive enough when working our end without the puck.
Most are calling out the system - I don't think that is the root of the problem.
If you are playing stationary hockey as defenders, you will not see much of the puck regardless of systems.
If you are not working as hard (or harder) that the crew that is cycling against you, you will not regain possession - and the system is not to blame.

The ducks made us look very slow and very disorganized in our end - they are fast and they are committed to winning puck battles - we are not.

This isn’t an effort problem and if it is it’s been an effort problem, then it’s been one for a long time and that’s on coaching. Breaking up a cycle with the way the Jets organize in their own end is very difficult and making quick breakout reads in transition playing that style of defense is also very difficult, especially with forwards who like to stay high.

Opposite side wingers are the least of our issues and plenty of teams employ opposite shots on the wings. The Jets are a mess because their positioning is awful and it leads fo far too many breakdowns. I’d call it an effort issue if I hadn’t seen in over 100 times already. You can blame all
the players or you can look at the coaching, or perhaps out GM has vastly miscalculated the type of players he has brought in.

I’ll stick with system, the Jets are a mess and it’s not hard to see.

 

[Adam da bomb]

bottom6? what are you talking about.

if you think his offense has been impressive, we are never going to agree. as a 2nd year player, and the only guy w/ the identical partner as last year his game has been underwhelming imo, especially considering i thought last year he was admirable in that role. perhaps using was a tad harsh, although i don't think so when considering his all-around game.

Bottom 6, =3rd pairing. No one has said his offense has been impressive. I am arguing against your word bad. There are more than 2 options of bad and impressive. I would say adequate. You are also comparing a second year guy to guys who have all played top pair elsewhere. If Heinola came in and replaced him, fine, but, I don't want Sbisa, Forbort.
Tell me Poolman's offensive game was better.