Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[MardyBum]

He was. But it’s been mostly used as a crutch by a lot of people IMO.

“Yeah, Stanley isn’t as shit as I said he was but hey he’s being sheltered so we can’t make anything of this.”

And then we’ll hear about how great Samberg is even though the competition he faced in the AHL is weaker than what Stanley is facing. But it isn’t “hey Samberg is looking good but it’s only against AHL completion so meh”

Anyway, I’d say in the playoffs last year if memory serves, or at least this year he’s been taking a regular shift so I think it’s starting to become time to come up with another excuse. Unless you want to say all third pairing, PKing D are sheltered and that it should be used against him.

I’m not saying he’s a top 4 or anything, or even that he’s playing up to his draft pedigree, but the training wheels have come off and he’s still succeeding IMO

A crutch for what? Stating facts is not a crutch. He was extremely sheltered. He's not in the top 4 this year. He's a third pairing dman at the moment. There is nothing wrong with that.

There are still posters on here who think Helle is shit. It's the internet

 

[Gm0ney]

I think it's pretty clear that Stanley's been good. He's not super quick or agile, but he seems to know his limitations and works hard to overcome and mitigate them. He's the perfect example of a guy who was eased in, put in a role that suited him and in a position to succeed - and to his credit, he has performed above expectations. I wish they'd give every prospect the same treatment...but it seems reserved for big bodied defensemen only.

 

[Ducky10]

#5-6 d-men are always sheltered. That point is esp moot because we've had 5-6 guys who have sucked in that role despite being sheltered. He has been fine in that role, I don't have many complaints. He is also being paid like a #5-6 dman so can't complain.
.

Agreed, a lot of focus on a 3rd pairing D man, playing like a third pairing D man, although an improvement over more recent third pairing D men the Jets have employed (and still employ).

Stanley still suffers from being a first round draft pick and lingering talk about him being a top 4 player. I doubt he will be and as long as he isn’t paid or played as such, I’m not really all that worried with him. Still a young guy, could make for a bonus 5-6 if he keeps developing.

 

[snowkiddin]

A crutch for what? Stating facts is not a crutch. He was extremely sheltered. He's not in the top 4 this year. He's a third pairing dman at the moment. There is nothing wrong with that.

There are still posters on here who think Helle is shit. It's the internet

I agree. He’s a third pairing d-man right now, and he’s doing fine in that role. The rest of the post you replied to explains what I mean by crutch, but ultimately:

Saying he’s a third pairing D or that he’s sheltered isn’t the issue for me, it’s the people who use that as a knock exclusively against Stanley while salivating over other players facing similar or inferior competition. Yeah, Stanley is playing good but he’s being sheltered! True. But he isn’t anymore sheltered than DeMelo (last year he certainly was, especially when DeMelo was PKing and he wasn’t, but this year, small sample, but I’d say they likely have similar usage), or Samberg with his AHL minutes, or any other 5-6. A lot of the people saying this kinda stuff were the same ones who knew he was gonna bust.

He was extremely sheltered when he first came in but now he isn’t anymore sheltered than a third pairing defenseman is, and he’s still doing well.

To be fair, I don’t think that many people are actually arguing that he’s being excessively sheltered anymore.

 

[LowLefty]

This isn’t an effort problem and if it is it’s been an effort problem, then it’s been one for a long time and that’s on coaching. Breaking up a cycle with the way the Jets organize in their own end is very difficult and making quick breakout reads in transition playing that style of defense is also very difficult, especially with forwards who like to stay high.

Opposite side wingers are the least of our issues and plenty of teams employ opposite shots on the wings. The Jets are a mess because their positioning is awful and it leads fo far too many breakdowns. I’d call it an effort issue if I hadn’t seen in over 100 times already. You can blame all
the players or you can look at the coaching, or perhaps out GM has vastly miscalculated the type of players he has brought in.

I’ll stick with system, the Jets are a mess and it’s not hard to see.

I think it's more than systems (IMO) - and we don't have to agree

 

[DRW204]

look at our game-logs & tred for xGA.....





luckily we've faced a 2 rebuilding teams (2xANH) and MIN (solid team), not necessarily teams with world beaters at Fwd. But we can't continue giving up quantity/quality chances like this, especially with a poor PK.

It's amazing how easily teams get so many chances in the low slot against the Jets...and how rarely the Jets get down there in the offensive zone...

Last night (all situations):
View attachment 473115

at Minnesota:
View attachment 473116

at San Jose:
View attachment 473117

at Anaheim:
View attachment 473119

Playoffs at Montreal (Game 4):
View attachment 473122

Random game from last regular season (at Vancouver):
View attachment 473126

Another random game (vs. Ottawa):
View attachment 473128

Hey, at least we got some pressure down low on the...2020-21 Ottawa Senators! They still ran the show in our own d-zone though.

Enough is enough is enough is enough.

 

[bob77]

Dillon is made for a strong side overload, his net front presence is better used when he’s weak side and when he’s strong side he can be effective breaking up the cycle.

Want to make him ineffective and take away his strengths? Have him chase his man all over hells half acre. It’s not his game, square peg, round hole. Can make a case for this applying to Stan as well.

Somewhat like basketball, if man is played well, it’s better than zone. But it’s more difficult to play, so if not played well, you are much better just playing zone. Then there’s the actual experience virtually lifetime for these guys as to what they played. I’m very old. In my days, it was all zone. Left side right side. North South lanes for F, etc. I don’t know if hockey would make sense to me playing man. Zone has C as backup in either corner. Wings out high, with weak side sliding lower. D didn’t try to go to the other corner. Never chase a guy behind the net. Your partner gets the guy on the other side. You go out front. Zone should be easier for larger guys. Less skating. Man is more for guys who can skate and keep up. Man is susceptible to pick plays. Zone is harder to stop following a guy and stay in only your zone.

 

[None]

look at our game-logs & tred for xGA.....





luckily we've faced a 2 rebuilding teams (2xANH) and MIN (solid team), not necessarily teams with world beaters at Fwd. But we can't continue giving up quantity/quality chances like this, especially with a poor PK.

The Jets are out to prove the doubters wrong, there definitely is more ways than up

When Chevy was told "it's all downhill from here" he took it to mean that with the defensive personnel improved they were over the hill and had solved the hard part and were cruising downhill the rest of the way. It turns out that it's actually the more literal interpretation and they're bottoming out

 

[Romang67]

Our man-to-man system actively draws our D-men away from the net. Of course we're going to give up shots from the slots when we remove any players from that area.

It's dumb and needs to stop, but it's not confusing.

What confuses me is how the hell we give up so many unchallenged tips and rebounds in front of the net on the PK when we play a passive box.

It doesn't matter how good Hellebuyck is. He's not going to stop tips like Terry's yesterday when he's allowed to stand completely unchallenged in front of the net. And that's like the 3rd or 4th goal we've given up on an unchallenged tip from right in front of the net.

 

[ecolad]

This thread can morph into a 'systems thread' pretty easily, can't it?

I don't believe anyone has raised the subject of how the Jet's try to run out the clock late in the 3rd when the other team pulls it's goalie to make it 6v 5 hockey. It seems that they are again ultra passive, falling into what can only be described as a " down low collapse"with nobody venturing above the circles. There is simply no attempt to pressure the puck carrier - leaving the opponent lot's of time to probe for weakness and set-up their own attacks unchallenged.

Now I know that there are several teams other than the Jet's that adopt this same strategy, so it must have it's benefits - but I personally feel very uncomfortable when watching things unfold in the dying minutes/seconds. There must surely be a case for some controlled aggression ( pressure the puck, then fall back into defensive box structure).to break up the attack before it gets started.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Stanley has been good in his role, no complaints.

Still don't see a good top 4 guy there anytime soon but we need good bottom pairing guys and he's that atm.

Agree that he hasn't been a problem. He works hard on his positioning, looks to make a quick outlet or even carry out when he can, skates his ass off to get back, and is prepared to shoot (and does) from the point when he can.

Stan's game has always been more O than D -- he's a clever passer, who can hit the stretch more often than he misses it, can carry like a freight train, and has typically been able to unload that point shot to better effect. I think the main concern with him was always if his D game could translate to the NHL -- well, it has, and he's got a great, steady partner in DD, who rarely makes mistakes, could run a masterclass on how to use the quick, short pass to clear the zone in transition, and has been showing more willingness to shoot.

I think Stan will continue to develop his O game, and has already shown flashes of how good his passing and vision can be. I also think that DD is exactly as good as many analytics thought he was, and that Dillon should pick up a bit.

Schmidt is who he is -- a Pionk with arguably worse physicality and overall D. If we're looking to shift someone to make way for Heinola/ Samberg, I'd rather him than DeMelo, despite the hilarity he's said to bring to the room. I have no concerns about Stanley, especially given his brains and work ethic and what he's costing us. He's at least as good as our last good 3rd pair D, at 1/3 of the cost.

 

[Gm0ney]

Before the Minnesota game, the Jets had the 6th-worst xGA/60 on the PK at 9.41.

2 games later, the Jets are still 6th-worst with an xGA/60 of 9.50.

And just in case anyone is wondering if the Jets have been just unlucky to draw these powerplay juggernauts early in the year:
2020-21:
Ducks: 31st ranked PP (8.9%), 21st xGF/60 (5.90)
Sharks: 29th PP (14.1%), 15th xGF/60 (6.46)
Wild: 24th (17.6%), 24th xGF/60 (5.66)

Historical Jets PK xGA/60
2020-21: 3rd worst, 7.43
2019-20: 3rd worst, 7.28
2018-19: 8th worst, 7.03
2017-18 : 3rd worst, 7.98.
2016-17: 13th worst, 6.87
2015-16: 3rd worst, 7.38
2014-15: 9th worst, 7.00

 

[BoneDocUK]

Before the Minnesota game, the Jets had the 6th-worst xGA/60 on the PK at 9.41.

2 games later, the Jets are still 6th-worst with an xGA/60 of 9.50.

And just in case anyone is wondering if the Jets have been just unlucky to draw these powerplay juggernauts early in the year:
2020-21:
Ducks: 31st ranked PP (8.9%), 21st xGF/60 (5.90)
Sharks: 29th PP (14.1%), 15th xGF/60 (6.46)
Wild: 24th (17.6%), 24th xGF/60 (5.66)

Historical Jets PK xGA/60
2020-21: 3rd worst, 7.43
2019-20: 3rd worst, 7.28
2018-19: 8th worst, 7.03
2017-18 : 3rd worst, 7.98.
2016-17: 13th worst, 6.87
2015-16: 3rd worst, 7.38
2014-15: 9th worst, 7.00

So, I may be crazy..... but do I glimpse a pattern there? Is it just possible that we've been unlucky enough to manage 8 years worth of some of the worst PK rosters in the league? Or is the patented Chaos D system -- call it Chaos+ on the PK -- perhaps letting us down just a titch?

 

[surixon]

Agree that he hasn't been a problem. He works hard on his positioning, looks to make a quick outlet or even carry out when he can, skates his ass off to get back, and is prepared to shoot (and does) from the point when he can.

Stan's game has always been more O than D -- he's a clever passer, who can hit the stretch more often than he misses it, can carry like a freight train, and has typically been able to unload that point shot to better effect. I think the main concern with him was always if his D game could translate to the NHL -- well, it has, and he's got a great, steady partner in DD, who rarely makes mistakes, could run a masterclass on how to use the quick, short pass to clear the zone in transition, and has been showing more willingness to shoot.

I think Stan will continue to develop his O game, and has already shown flashes of how good his passing and vision can be. I also think that DD is exactly as good as many analytics thought he was, and that Dillon should pick up a bit.

Schmidt is who he is -- a Pionk with arguably worse physicality and overall D. If we're looking to shift someone to make way for Heinola/ Samberg, I'd rather him than DeMelo, despite the hilarity he's said to bring to the room. I have no concerns about Stanley, especially given his brains and work ethic and what he's costing us. He's at least as good as our last good 3rd pair D, at 1/3 of the cost.

I expect Schmidt is the placeholder for Heinola.

 

[Neuf]

Chara didn't exactly look top 4 D when he broke into the league, far from it!

I see the comparisons all the time, but Tall =/= Chara

Your point about Chara not looking Top 4 quality in his early years remains true.

 

[Neuf]

I expect Schmidt is the placeholder for Heinola.

Is Schmidt doing well at defense? He seems less defense-y than I would have expected. I have no stat, just a suspicion.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Our man-to-man system actively draws our D-men away from the net. Of course we're going to give up shots from the slots when we remove any players from that area.

It's dumb and needs to stop, but it's not confusing.

What confuses me is how the hell we give up so many unchallenged tips and rebounds in front of the net on the PK when we play a passive box.

It doesn't matter how good Hellebuyck is. He's not going to stop tips like Terry's yesterday when he's allowed to stand completely unchallenged in front of the net. And that's like the 3rd or 4th goal we've given up on an unchallenged tip from right in front of the net.

I've noticed some better activation and jumping on loose pucks and blueline/ neutral zone areas our D are there and attempting playmaking up ice or reversing attack against. However, too often a forward is "losing his man" near our blueline and in our zone, exposing quick attacks and shot attempts back on us, catching Helle off-guard; or losing sight through traffic and whiffing on otherwise stoppable shots against.
Helle figured out his positioning and movement problems from earlier games, after the goal given up last night's game early again and was lights out great, again.
The boys upfront got their confidence and hustled and worked hard most of the game, deserving and creating the win. Still heavily out-shot much of it but that's where Helle on his A-game makes up for.
This team needs a new D coach ( long overdue, imo) who can work our D on battling, positioning better in our zone, net-front coverage. Especially in 1) not letting opposition get in front of Helle so easily, and 2) not ketting opposition stayin front of Helle so often and little resistance. As much I dislike the Oilers team, their not the strongest D in the west, are very good at clobbering, hammering, shoving and squeezing out opposition from crowding their net-front. Very few opposition goals against on juicy rebounds and open nan backside in-close plays and close to net-front deflections. I have noticed for a few years, when Jets play them and in other teams against them.
Huddy cannot seem to muster a plan or teach these skills and structure to Jets D, no matter the rister or change yearly of a couple to a few D players.
Our net-front is regularly blocking goalies view and losing contain on opposition sticks in front of Helle.
Wish our forwards were doing all the net-front clogging, on the opposing Net, only!
Great new look forming on our D creating and adding to offensive attack. Still dissappointing own-zone coverage overall and shot-against metrics and rebound control. Figure this out, plus keeping our net-front controlled/ patrolled for better clearing, with offensive skill spread out more and Helle showing his all-world A-game goaltending, this team could go very far!
Will change in coaching "change" and needed adjustments and more proper, even icetime throughout the lineup, throughout games prevail to allow thus teams' potential to shine?
Sure hope so. There are 2 "biggies" for me that may allow my above statement to prove.
That being: 1) Chevy needs to find a new D coach to enact required change in our D coverage around our net, and 2) will Maurice actually follow the shown success improvement of spreading out the icetime of lines and certain players ( last night's game example) and stick to this long term? Especially when, after 2 top leaders are back in 55& 26!

 

[GumbyCan2]

This thread can morph into a 'systems thread' pretty easily, can't it?

I don't believe anyone has raised the subject of how the Jet's try to run out the clock late in the 3rd when the other team pulls it's goalie to make it 6v 5 hockey. It seems that they are again ultra passive, falling into what can only be described as a " down low collapse"with nobody venturing above the circles. There is simply no attempt to pressure the puck carrier - leaving the opponent lot's of time to probe for weakness and set-up their own attacks unchallenged.

Now I know that there are several teams other than the Jet's that adopt this same strategy, so it must have it's benefits - but I personally feel very uncomfortable when watching things unfold in the dying minutes/seconds. There must surely be a case for some controlled aggression ( pressure the puck, then fall back into defensive box structure).to break up the attack before it gets started.

Lots of uneasiness and worry sure is created by this internal collapsing Maurice teaches his players, no matter who is on the roster. A very negative-result potential style in that this only works well with rested, defensive-structure big, strong players who are quick and have smart active sticks and can effectively dump pucks safely out our zone 9 out of 10 times.
Lowry and Copp fit this pretty well, but our D cannot allocate the same often enough. And, with a trend of many teams around the league now pulling their goalie with 5, 4 or 3 minutes remaining in the game when down by 1 goal, Lowry and Copp do not get enough rest, relief. Then, Maurice still overplays 55/26/25, over "youthful legs" players who have barely played 5 or 10 minutes in the game. With our collapsing in a box around our net with over-tired players, its a recipe for dissaster, more often than not. Others teams find the openings and easily keep the intensity and pressure on us with little push back.

Very good point(s) Ecolad! This might be one of the most critically detrimental coaching teachings/ habits that Maurice/Huddy combo incorporate.

 

[Whileee]

I think the Dillon-Pionk pair has been the Jets' weakest by a substantial margin. I doubt they'll continue to be this ineffective, once they settle in. At this point, they just seem disconnected both with and without the puck, and also seem to try to make some higher risk zone exit and transition plays that aren't connecting.

The Morrissey-Schmidt pair has had issues in the past couple of games mainly due to Schmidt's passing inaccuracy. I don't know if that's always been an issue for him, but it's caused issues that end up forcing that pair to play way too much in their own end. I think some of it has been the chaos among forwards with the line mixing. Forwards really seem confused about positioning and responsibilities. I hope that settles, and that Schmidt's passing becomes more accurate.

The Stanley-DeMelo pair has looked really strong. It's early, but I find myself musing about whether Stanley might actually be really, really good. He processes the game really well, has some good tools, and seems to be figuring out how to play D with his particular combination of size and mobility.

Looking ahead, I think that if the Jets make a strong playoff run, they'll likely keep this D together. If not, I could see them moving Dillon for a strong youngish forward (right shot), and moving Heinola and/or Samberg into the lineup.

 

[LowLefty]

The Stanley-DeMelo pair has looked really strong. It's early, but I find myself musing about whether Stanley might actually be really, really good. He processes the game really well, has some good tools, and seems to be figuring out how to play D with his particular combination of size and mobility.

Yeah but Stan is extreeeeeemly sheltered so playing well doesn't count

Kidding aside, I agree - he's plays a really solid game and makes smart decisions beyond what your typical young dman might make at this point in their career.
Very composed, very patient, solid puck mover and can play physical (which we need) - and he has potential to add some offense to his game (and it could be significant).

I look forward to watching this guy grow (pun) - he's going to be top 4 at some point if he continues at his rate.
There is nothing that we have seen recently that would dispute that.

 

[surixon]

I think the Dillon-Pionk pair has been the Jets' weakest by a substantial margin. I doubt they'll continue to be this ineffective, once they settle in. At this point, they just seem disconnected both with and without the puck, and also seem to try to make some higher risk zone exit and transition plays that aren't connecting.

The Morrissey-Schmidt pair has had issues in the past couple of games mainly due to Schmidt's passing inaccuracy. I don't know if that's always been an issue for him, but it's caused issues that end up forcing that pair to play way too much in their own end. I think some of it has been the chaos among forwards with the line mixing. Forwards really seem confused about positioning and responsibilities. I hope that settles, and that Schmidt's passing becomes more accurate.

The Stanley-DeMelo pair has looked really strong. It's early, but I find myself musing about whether Stanley might actually be really, really good. He processes the game really well, has some good tools, and seems to be figuring out how to play D with his particular combination of size and mobility.

Looking ahead, I think that if the Jets make a strong playoff run, they'll likely keep this D together. If not, I could see them moving Dillon for a strong youngish forward (right shot), and moving Heinola and/or Samberg into the lineup.

Good post,

I think the Morrissey/Schmidt pairing will be fine once our forwards and Schmidt sort themselves out a bit in their end. They predominantly got into trouble off of botched zone exits, both by Schmidt and by the forwards. The pairing is designed as to not spend much time in their end due to quick retrieval and transition. I also suspect that as the team sorts out their offensive systems this pairing will start to excel. We have already seen flashes of great offensive play and link up by them and the forwards and I suspect that will improve moving forward. Offensive chance generation will play a big role in this pairings metrics moving forward.

I don't know what to make of the Dillion/Pionk pairing. Neither has really gelled well with each other and Pionk has had a real sloppy start to his season. I hope they pull it together soon.

No complaints with our third pairing, they do their job and do it well. Not as bullish on Stanley as you but he's showing he has the chops for his role.

 

[WPGChief]

Good post,

I think the Morrissey/Schmidt pairing will be fine once our forwards and Schmidt sort themselves out a bit in their end. They predominantly got into trouble off of botched zone exits, both by Schmidt and by the forwards. The pairing is designed as to not spend much time in their end due to quick retrieval and transition. I also suspect that as the team sorts out their offensive systems this pairing will start to excel. We have already seen flashes of great offensive play and link up by them and the forwards and I suspect that will improve moving forward. Offensive chance generation will play a big role in this pairings metrics moving forward.

I don't know what to make of the Dillion/Pionk pairing. Neither has really gelled well with each other and Pionk has had a real sloppy start to his season. I hope they pull it together soon.

No complaints with our third pairing, they do their job and do it well. Not as bullish on Stanley as you but he's showing he has the chops for his role.

Schmidt is in year 3 of a depreciating defensive ability that began in VGK. As you say, they want to play quick and move the puck up the ice but every player constantly flubs a pass or chips it out only to get hemmed in again for some very, very long shifts, which gets exacerbated by this hybrid man-to-man system that the opposition skates around rather easily. When they are in the offensive zone though, shots aren't coming from anywhere too dangerous, but have somehow thus far gotten 4 goals out of it.

Dillon-Pionk is easily my most concerning pairing right now. Neither have looked great, mostly just getting by, and as a result are just getting crushed in every 5v5 metric at the moment. I'm honestly not sure what their game plan is at points - maybe Dillon is trying to find his physical element of his game against but without taking a plethora of penalties because of the focus on crosschecking right now? But even Pionk has struggled, with Corey Sznajder's microstat game score (of 2 games) having Dillon barely edge out Pionk - though they are simultaneously both the highest D for the Jets. Could be a case of always trying or doing too much.

Which leads me to my next point: probably need to start playing Stanley-DeMelo more minutes, even if I'm not as bullish on Stanley. But their usage has been essentially "nah", whereas they clearly should be getting a few more shift starts that aren't simply always on-the-fly. I still think Stanley struggles immensely with his skating, such as his acceleration - which may explain why they aren't given many ozone starts, with Jets top centres being pretty bad in faceoffs (Dubois is at 33.3% for OZ faceoffs), forcing Stanley to always start skating backwards (which gets pretty worrisome by my eyes) - but Jets need to figure out what they have and don't have.

It's clear the Jets are trying to get back to a 2017-18-esque offensive system but don't have the same horses to run it, while simultaneously trying to upgrade their 2019-21 defensive hybrid man-to-man system now that they have better talent without appropriately addressing all of its flaws. It's going as expected, to be frank.

 

[surixon]

Schmidt is in year 3 of a depreciating defensive ability that began in VGK. As you say, they want to play quick and move the puck up the ice but every player constantly flubs a pass or chips it out only to get hemmed in again for some very, very long shifts, which gets exacerbated by this hybrid man-to-man system that the opposition skates around rather easily. When they are in the offensive zone though, shots aren't coming from anywhere too dangerous, but have somehow thus far gotten 4 goals out of it.

Dillon-Pionk is easily my most concerning pairing right now. Neither have looked great, mostly just getting by, and as a result are just getting crushed in every 5v5 metric at the moment. I'm honestly not sure what their game plan is at points - maybe Dillon is trying to find his physical element of his game against but without taking a plethora of penalties because of the focus on crosschecking right now? But even Pionk has struggled, with Corey Sznajder's microstat game score (of 2 games) having Dillon barely edge out Pionk - though they are simultaneously both the highest D for the Jets. Could be a case of always trying or doing too much.

Which leads me to my next point: probably need to start playing Stanley-DeMelo more minutes, even if I'm not as bullish on Stanley. But their usage has been essentially "nah", whereas they clearly should be getting a few more shift starts that aren't simply always on-the-fly. I still think Stanley struggles immensely with his skating, such as his acceleration - which may explain why they aren't given many ozone starts, with Jets top centres being pretty bad in faceoffs (Dubois is at 33.3% for OZ faceoffs), forcing Stanley to always start skating backwards (which gets pretty worrisome by my eyes) - but Jets need to figure out what they have and don't have.

It's clear the Jets are trying to get back to a 2017-18-esque offensive system but don't have the same horses to run it, while simultaneously trying to upgrade their 2019-21 defensive hybrid man-to-man system now that they have better talent without appropriately addressing all of its flaws. It's going as expected, to be frank.

They have to ditch the M2M schemen. Things won't improve much until they do. I'm optimistic the offense will eventually pick up but not at all optimistic on our defense as long as the same system is employed.

 

[ecolad]

Good post,

I think the Morrissey/Schmidt pairing will be fine once our forwards and Schmidt sort themselves out a bit in their end. They predominantly got into trouble off of botched zone exits, both by Schmidt and by the forwards. The pairing is designed as to not spend much time in their end due to quick retrieval and transition. I also suspect that as the team sorts out their offensive systems this pairing will start to excel. We have already seen flashes of great offensive play and link up by them and the forwards and I suspect that will improve moving forward. Offensive chance generation will play a big role in this pairings metrics moving forward.

I don't know what to make of the Dillion/Pionk pairing. Neither has really gelled well with each other and Pionk has had a real sloppy start to his season. I hope they pull it together soon.

No complaints with our third pairing, they do their job and do it well. Not as bullish on Stanley as you but he's showing he has the chops for his role.

We are seeing Dillon struggle/ get frustrated with the system that he has been asked to play here. This is a defender who is much more effective playing a basic zone defence , where he stays primarily in a small area fronting the net and in his corner. He appears to be quite uncomfortable (and ineffective) playing m2m and following his man around the entire zone. Add the reffing/penalty changes that have directly affected his strengths in front of the net, and we have a D that is having issues settling in.

Pionk is also not playing his normal game - for reasons that are not knowable. I think he will settle a bit in short order.

How these 2 will play as a unit cannot be judged until each has settled a bit but there is every reason to expect that they will complement one another well given their performance with 'like partners'.

Edit - Sorry, didn't see your post immmediately above. We share a common view.

 

[surixon]

We are seeing Dillon struggle/ get frustrated with the system that he has been asked to play here. This is a defender who is much more effective playing a basic zone defence , where he stays primarily in a small area fronting the net and in his corner. He appears to be quite uncomfortable (and ineffective) playing m2m and following his man around the entire zone. Add the reffing/penalty changes that have directly affected his strengths in front of the net, and we have a D that is having issues settling in.

Pionk is also not playing his normal game - for reasons that are not knowable. I think he will settle a bit in short order.

How these 2 will play as a unit cannot be judged until each has settled a bit but there is every reason to expect that they will complement one another well given their performance with 'like partners'.

Yeah I just can't fathom how we are now three years in and Moe still hasn't clued into the fact that his defensive system is a significant problem. Maybe having a better dcore that struggles with it will maybe finally open his eyes.