Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[Ducky10]

Stanley is the least of our worries. If a forward found his way within 6 feet of the net his shot might have more effect. Having said that, if he’s burying shots into the goalie’s crest and getting O zone face offs, at least he’s not playing clown cars in his own end. He’s still pretty green and he’s just trying to do the right thing (at least what Maurice figures is the right thing). I’m sure Huddy will help him adjust and learn how to make his shot more effective .

 

[Gm0ney]

He's the king of low danger point shots, gotta keep that crown

If the Jets forwards played a more crash-the-net game, he'd probably rack up some assists. Throw it at the net and good things happen - but only if you're teammates are in the right spot to take advantage. Schmidt's pass to Copp last night was some good stuff...more of that, please.

 

[sipowicz]

idk stanley hasn't been great in the dzone to me id say average? and offensively he's so frustrating at times. i haven't seen much growth in his offensive game since last year. guy has 1 move, throw a low % shot w/o screen, or any Jets fwds net-front.... this is a bit on the Jets fwds since they aren't getting net-front, however, there are other plays he can make rather than throwing a wrister on net that ends in a whistle, probably the lowest % shot considering no net-front presense.

Maybe Stan needs better coaching, Huddy sure ain't the guy!

 

[scelaton]

it's early,

but haven't been impressed with our play from the back-end thus far overall. Schmidt has had moments showing off his great puck-moving but defensively i just dont see him and Morrissey as a good fit. I was kinda worried about this prior to the season as neither have rated as good at defense the past few years, however, thought Schmidts puck moving can net them positive most nights. He/they've struggled in his own end imo. Morrissey had a nice PP goal (nice puck movement to get Gibson moving prior) last night and was really engaged offensively in game 1.

Dillon is physical which is nice but haven't been enamored by anything else, and given he's Pionk best partner to-date (the guy's been given Kulikov, Sbisa, Forbort ), was expecting an additional step from Pionk's game. Stanley , and Demelo kind of just does his thing.... don't really notice him, nothing flashy, just kinda plays smart and doesn't put himself in bad spots. there's like no offensive production there, but at this point in his career i don't think he will ever put up offensive totals.

it will take games to gel for sure, but just commenting on what i've seen to date & the on-ice stats/production bear out.

they're still netting out positive on the goal side (after last night), but the chances given up is concerning. especially considering our schedule has been 3 rebuild teams+MIN so far. Think against teams w/ better shooting talent, if they don't tighten up or helle isn't standing on his head (basically if it's Helle from the first two games) could run into trouble. fully aware every game won't be a Picasso, but still see the same defensive issues (both at 5v5 or PK) that persist with this team (not sure if others feel different)

I have to agree with you, especially with regard to Dillon and Pionk. Pionk looks nervous out there, but I expect him to loosen up with a few more games under his belt. Dillon has looked average, at best, and that concerns me. Sure, he is new to the team, and no doubt the stupid system they run is not meant for a big man...but he will turn 31 in November and I fear he is in decline.

Schmidt is just average defensively but, unlike Dillon with Pionk, Morrissey plays looser and better with him around. Josh is our clearly our best D atm. (As an aside--I would advise against continuing to throtte Morrissey with numbers reflecting his slump and his Dad's illness--it'll make you a more credible poster.)

Logan and DeMelo are a strong third pair and Logan had plenty of upside still, despite his limited offensive repertoire. They are the least of our defensive problems.

Glass half-empty perspective: We need a better defensive system and a better version of Dillon...and I'm not convinced we will see either anytime soon.

Glass half-full perspective: At this juncture in his Jets tenure, Forbert had already saved a goal with his hand, was hailed as a hero and perfect partner for Pionk. We all saw his decline over time. Maybe Dillon will do the opposite-- start low and end on a high...

 

[DRW204]

so what are you even talking about? ok, he had 1 play to tonianto down low ok great. can i highlight a great beaulieu offensive play and beat it to death too?

generally, his offense is non existent or bad. if you have stats/on-ice measures that say different, i would love to see them. defensively i see struggles similar to last year some on the individual level (ie: playing against players with speed notably) or that can be categorized on a team/system level. some of it is on him, some it is not. he plays with bite at times which i like though, but other than bite, need more in other aspects in the game.

im comparing stanley based on what he did last year, and his pedigree of a player. if all you think he should not be showing growth or improvements at this stage, then fine so be it. i havent seen improvements in his game (still early of course, like i metnioned above) based on last year, and he's playing with a partner that he's accustomed too or familiar with. i admitted, using the help might have been a bit harsh however, i don't think he's been all that great through early parts. all i heard all off-season is this team's defense is gonna be great and whatnot, but havent seen it (so far) sorry.

Bottom 6, =3rd pairing. No one has said his offense has been impressive. I am arguing against your word bad. There are more than 2 options of bad and impressive. I would say adequate. You are also comparing a second year guy to guys who have all played top pair elsewhere.

 

[snowkiddin]

Seems to me a lot of the “Stanley is a bust!” rhetoric that has plagued this board for years has since metamorphosed into “Stanley is extremely sheltered!”

Both are indications of confirmation bias and have no bearing in reality.

 

[surixon]

Stanley has been good in his role, no complaints.

Still don't see a good top 4 guy there anytime soon but we need good bottom pairing guys and he's that atm.

 

[DRW204]

Seems to me a lot of the “Stanley is a bust!” rhetoric that has plagued this board for years has since metamorphosed into “Stanley is extremely sheltered!”

Both are indications of confirmation bias and have no bearing in reality.

the bust thing was always ignorant. sheltered is based on facts?

stanley likely wont ever be a great defender against speed on the rush (i mean, i think most defenders arent? speed kills). parts of last year i though he faired not-bad at speed (it's agility, quickness i think he has moreso issues with) & using his long reach i think can mitigate some of that.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Stanley has been good in his role, no complaints.

Still don't see a good top 4 guy there anytime soon but we need good bottom pairing guys and he's that atm.

And that is a well supported position. He is that. Not great offense, he's not Heinola and Heinola could replace him, but, pointing to him as the problem is losing the story as he has such a small impact either way. He has been adequate not getting promoted any time soon, but, shouldn't be losing his job any time soon either, unless, you have another top 4 guy come in, or a guy with top 4 potential like Heinola.
It's like saying Connor is playing defensively doesn't mean he looks good like a selke winner, it means he doesn't look like a trash fire.

 

[snowkiddin]

the bust thing was always ignorant. sheltered is based on facts?

stanley likely wont ever be a great defender against speed on the rush (i mean, i think most defenders arent? speed kills). parts of last year i though he faired not-bad at speed (it's agility, quickness i think he has moreso issues with) & using his long reach i think can mitigate some of that.

I think someone else pointed this out already, but Stanley was sheltered when he first came in but now he’s taking a regular third pairing shift. Is the analytical messiah DeMelo also sheltered then?

Stanley is doing fine in his role, which still may not be good enough considering his draft pedigree, but he’s playing #1 PK minutes and a regular shift now so I don’t think he’s being “very sheltered” anymore.

 

[surixon]

And that is a well supported position. He is that. Not great offense, he's not Heinola and Heinola could replace him, but, pointing to him as the problem is losing the story as he has such a small impact either way. He has been adequate not getting promoted any time soon, but, shouldn't be losing his job any time soon either, unless, you have another top 4 guy come in, or a guy with top 4 potential like Heinola.

The problem is systems and some top 4 chemistry that still needs to be developed. I expect the later to sort itself out but not confident on the former with Moe/Huddy leading the charge.

 

[Gm0ney]

It's amazing how easily teams get so many chances in the low slot against the Jets...and how rarely the Jets get down there in the offensive zone...

Last night (all situations):

at Minnesota:

at San Jose:

at Anaheim:

Playoffs at Montreal (Game 4):

Random game from last regular season (at Vancouver):

Another random game (vs. Ottawa):

Hey, at least we got some pressure down low on the...2020-21 Ottawa Senators! They still ran the show in our own d-zone though.

Enough is enough is enough is enough.

 

[MardyBum]

If the Jets forwards played a more crash-the-net game, he'd probably rack up some assists. Throw it at the net and good things happen - but only if you're teammates are in the right spot to take advantage. Schmidt's pass to Copp last night was some good stuff...more of that, please.

It's sad how he can get routinely get pucks through but it's seen the entire way by the goalie nearly every time lol.

Few very screens and guys not close enough for rebounds.

 

[DRW204]

I think someone else pointed this out already, but Stanley was sheltered when he first came in but now he’s taking a regular third pairing shift. Is the analytical messiah DeMelo also sheltered then?

Stanley is doing fine in his role, which still may not be good enough considering his draft pedigree, but he’s playing #1 PK minutes and a regular shift now so I don’t think he’s being “very sheltered” anymore.

yes demelo is playing lower-down the line up and a sheltered role. however, he has played top-4 with both the sens and jets and has posted good on-ice results with their pairings.

there's nothing wrong with stanley playing bottom-pairing, someone has to. i just don't think his individual game has improved much if at all compared to last year , and given his role probably is easier compared to the other 2 pairings (at 5v5), with the most familiarity (given he has the same partner), and less experience/room for growth (i think you'd notice more improvements from a player earlier in a career vs later), i think it's reasonable to expect a bigger/better season from him. it's early of course, hence why i nearly start every post with "it's early" or end it with "so far" lol.

 

[Gm0ney]

It's sad how he can get routinely get pucks through but it's seen the entire way by the goalie nearly every time lol.

Few very screens and guys not close enough for rebounds.

 

[MardyBum]

Seems to me a lot of the “Stanley is a bust!” rhetoric that has plagued this board for years has since metamorphosed into “Stanley is extremely sheltered!”

Both are indications of confirmation bias and have no bearing in reality.

????

Stanley was extremely sheltered last year. One of the most sheltered dmen in the entire NHL.

He's played 4 games that I assume are regular third pairing QoC?

Weird flex.

 

[JetsFan815]

It's amazing how easily teams get so many chances in the low slot against the Jets...and how rarely the Jets get down there in the offensive zone...

Last night (all situations):
View attachment 473115

at Minnesota:
View attachment 473116

at San Jose:
View attachment 473117

at Anaheim:
View attachment 473119

Playoffs at Montreal (Game 4):
View attachment 473122

Random game from last regular season (at Vancouver):
View attachment 473126

Another random game (vs. Ottawa):
View attachment 473128

Hey, at least we got some pressure down low on the...2020-21 Ottawa Senators! They still ran the show in our own d-zone though.

Enough is enough is enough is enough.

They rarely if ever seem to generate second and 3rd chances. So much of their offense is just one and done.

 

[Neuf]

It's amazing how easily teams get so many chances in the low slot against the Jets...and how rarely the Jets get down there in the offensive zone...

Last night (all situations):
View attachment 473115

at Minnesota:
View attachment 473116

at San Jose:
View attachment 473117

at Anaheim:
View attachment 473119

Playoffs at Montreal (Game 4):
View attachment 473122

Random game from last regular season (at Vancouver):
View attachment 473126

Another random game (vs. Ottawa):
View attachment 473128

Hey, at least we got some pressure down low on the...2020-21 Ottawa Senators! They still ran the show in our own d-zone though.

Enough is enough is enough is enough.

Nice post, and looks exactly like what we're used to. The territory in front of Hellebuyck should be costly, but we constantly see the other team pull the defensemen to the side chasing the M2M, then leaving Jets forwards to wave their sticks in the slot while the other team is hammering third and fourth attempts. Even the Jets d-men don't seem to want to clear the net front.

I have no idea why Jets don't go to the net for offense. We need a greasy goaler, like Ladd was or even what Lemiuex was doing.

 

[DRW204]

Nice post, and looks exactly like what we're used to. The territory in front of Hellebuyck should be costly, but we constantly see the other team pull the defensemen to the side chasing the M2M, then leaving Jets forwards to wave their sticks in the slot while the other team is hammering third and fourth attempts. Even the Jets d-men don't seem to want to clear the net front.

I have no idea why Jets don't go to the net for offense. We need a greasy goaler, like Ladd was or even what Lemiuex was doing.

PLD and Copp have been doing it this year. I'd hope svech could do that too. Will wait and see on him.

Defensively it's V bad though. All our defenders need to be better. The bigger guys who are supposed be more physically imposing should be better at defending the crease.

 

[snowkiddin]

????

Stanley was extremely sheltered last year. One of the most sheltered dmen in the entire NHL.

He's played 4 games that I assume are regular third pairing QoC?

Weird flex.

He was. But it’s been mostly used as a crutch by a lot of people IMO.

“Yeah, Stanley isn’t as shit as I said he was but hey he’s being sheltered so we can’t make anything of this.”

And then we’ll hear about how great Samberg is even though the competition he faced in the AHL is weaker than what Stanley is facing. But it isn’t “hey Samberg is looking good but it’s only against AHL completion so meh”

Anyway, I’d say in the playoffs last year if memory serves, or at least this year he’s been taking a regular shift so I think it’s starting to become time to come up with another excuse. Unless you want to say all third pairing, PKing D are sheltered and that it should be used against him.

I’m not saying he’s a top 4 or anything, or even that he’s playing up to his draft pedigree, but the training wheels have come off and he’s still succeeding IMO

 

[JetsFan815]

Seems to me a lot of the “Stanley is a bust!” rhetoric that has plagued this board for years has since metamorphosed into “Stanley is extremely sheltered!”

Both are indications of confirmation bias and have no bearing in reality.

#5-6 d-men are always sheltered. That point is esp moot because we've had 5-6 guys who have sucked in that role despite being sheltered. He has been fine in that role, I don't have many complaints. He is also being paid like a #5-6 dman so can't complain.

The only thing that bothers me about his game is the pointless shots he takes without any traffic in front of the net that have no chance of going in but a high chance to giving up possession. I don't mind if the D shoot but they need to shoot with a purpose (with traffic in front of net, or with pressure coming on them or for generating a rebound).

 

[snowkiddin]

yes demelo is playing lower-down the line up and a sheltered role. however, he has played top-4 with both the sens and jets and has posted good on-ice results with their pairings.

there's nothing wrong with stanley playing bottom-pairing, someone has to. i just don't think his individual game has improved much if at all compared to last year , and given his role probably is easier compared to the other 2 pairings (at 5v5), with the most familiarity (given he has the same partner), and less experience/room for growth (i think you'd notice more improvements from a player earlier in a career vs later), i think it's reasonable to expect a bigger/better season from him. it's early of course, hence why i nearly start every post with "it's early" or end it with "so far" lol.

Agreed. I’m expecting a bigger season from him, but we’ll see. I was also expecting a good season from Heinola but it seems we aren’t being allowed the opportunity

 

[snowkiddin]

#5-6 d-men are always sheltered. That point is esp moot because we've had 5-6 guys who have sucked in that role despite being sheltered. He has been fine in that role, I don't have many complaints. He is also being paid like a #5-6 dman so can't complain.

The only thing that bothers me about his game is the pointless shots he takes without any traffic in front of the net that have no chance of going in but a high chance to giving up possession. I don't mind if the D shoot but they need to shoot with a purpose (with traffic in front of net, or with pressure coming on them or for generating a rebound).

Agreed with point one. Agreed with the second point too but I like that he gets the puck on net, but I agree he needs to develop his shot or shoot with traffic/bodies in front so he isn’t just fluttering it right into the crest.

 

[Ducky10]

Dillon is made for a strong side overload, his net front presence is better used when he’s weak side and when he’s strong side he can be effective breaking up the cycle.

Want to make him ineffective and take away his strengths? Have him chase his man all over hells half acre. It’s not his game, square peg, round hole. Can make a case for this applying to Stan as well.

 

[sipowicz]

#5-6 d-men are always sheltered. That point is esp moot because we've had 5-6 guys who have sucked in that role despite being sheltered. He has been fine in that role, I don't have many complaints. He is also being paid like a #5-6 dman so can't complain.

The only thing that bothers me about his game is the pointless shots he takes without any traffic in front of the net that have no chance of going in but a high chance to giving up possession. I don't mind if the D shoot but they need to shoot with a purpose (with traffic in front of net, or with pressure coming on them or for generating a rebound).

Chara didn't exactly look top 4 D when he broke into the league, far from it!