Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[garret9]

Corsi was never the whole picture, just part of the picture...

But it is definitely an important part of the picture for success:

It's just not even disputed anywhere except on places like HFboards lol

 

[voyageur]

Do you think he doesn't get the players he requests?

He tells Chevy he wants Stanley, or Samberg, or Heinola. Chevy figures out how to do it. Turns out it is easy.

Or Chevy says Samberg hasn't played for 9 months, we like what we have here, but we want to make sure he is ready, when the time comes. Then he says I'm going to sign Forbort, because I think he would fit well with Pionk, replacing Kulikov. Then Chevy probably says I'll sign De Melo and Beaulieu, as a package deal, and Maurice says I like those players. I'm going to sign Sbisa because I know you liked his work last year, and I am going to to sign Niku, because he's got some pace to his game, I think he can make the step to the next level, and he's willing to accept his role, as a depth defenseman this year. Kid's matured. Both Chevy and Maurice were defensemen so I am pretty sure they have a good conversation about what kind of players they would like. I'd be surprised if Maurice alone picks the team. I'd be surprised if he had the ultimate say in Sbisa being waived.

Heinola probably gets talked about a lot, because the potential with this kid is high, and they probably want to make sure they get him in the lineup when they feel he is physically mature enough for the grind of a hard season.

Not a single poster on this board had Stanley picked for the starting lineup, so he was a nice surprise, as an injury replacement.

Might get the call again, with an injury.

But I think Maurice gets way too much credit all the management decisions. He might prefer physically mature veterans over younger prospects, but I'm not so sure that Chevy isn't in the same boat. Given the way he played hockey.

 

[Ducky10]

Does he really though? Does he really?..... his decisions would seem to point to him just being a shit coach lol

Give it a rest. It’s not an endorsement of Maurice but he does realize analytics are a part of the game. Whether he uses them or understands them appropriately is another matter.

I get it, you don’t like him, no need to rehash it every post.

 

[Jet]

I won’t argue that Morrissey has struggled a bit and I’ve said as much. I just think many of his struggles are down to having to play with a variety of partners and a lot on his off side. You play defence, you know how important it is to be on the same page as your partner and how much you rely on him to be in position, especially when moving the puck under pressure. Some of this lies at the feet of the forwards as well to be sure, but much of it has to do with Bo Bo being constantly out of position and not available for Morrissey to make a play to.

I thought he was good tonight - Forbort as well bounced back nicely. Not wishing injury on anyone but perhaps Beau's sore hand will give Stanley a chance to draw in (or Niku)

 

[voyageur]

I thought he was good tonight - Forbort as well bounced back nicely. Not wishing injury on anyone but perhaps Beau's sore hand will give Stanley a chance to draw in (or Niku)

That will be an interesting choice. Neither have been good on the road this year. In the one game where both played in TO I'd say Stanley had the better output, so that might be a factor. Stanley is also much more similar to Beaulieu in terms of style, maybe less erratic, and Maurice is going to want someone who can clear the crease. Either of these 2 it's not likely that they see more than 10 minutes of ice time, unless we are in the lead substantially.

There were some interesting combos that came out of Boo Boo's booboo. Saw a little bit more of Morrissey-De Melo, but it was still Poolman out late in the game, which I found surprising.

My guess is Morrissey plays over 25 minutes again next game, probably not as close to 30 as tonight's game.

 

[Duke749]

I thought he was good tonight - Forbort as well bounced back nicely. Not wishing injury on anyone but perhaps Beau's sore hand will give Stanley a chance to draw in (or Niku)

Yeh Morrissey was good tonight. Just stuck with Poolman who plays like everyone else is fast forward and he’s normal speed. Wish he’d relax a bit. Lol

Forbort had a strong defensive game. Just not a great puck mover.

 

[bluuuurr]

Poolman who plays like everyone else is fast forward and he’s normal speed. Wish he’d relax a bit.

We used to call this "getting a case of the yips". He needs to work on the between the ears game, when he's confident he can play like a top 4. When he gets a wild offensive hair, he has some flashes of some good hidden potential. When he gets the yips he starts he starts trying to skate in 2 directions at once and plays hot potato with the puck.

 

[Guffman]

It’s funny that your dismissal of analytics is in complete opposition with the fact all NHL teams use them extensively.

Baseball has almost rid itself of all the dinosaurs who continually dismissed analytics. People who reject such things simply fail to understand them and don’t even bother to try. They keep insisting they know best, even when it’s clear they simply aren’t.

Even Maurice accepts them.

What did Maurice say last month?

You’ll do your deep dives and your analytics and boy do they do a horseshit job of telling you what five guys do.

I never dismissed analytics. I dismiss the overreaching conclusions many of you make based on the primitive publicly available analytics. Big difference.

Look, you guys can preach about Petan or Dano being budding superstars, or how important Corsi is but when those guys fail, and when the top Corsi team doesn’t even make the playoffs, maybe you should reconsider how much stock you should be putting into these primitive analytics.

Maurice calls it horseshit. Hockey nerd Schiefele is dismissive of it. I guess I am the dinosaur by not selling out my opinions based on “horseshit” analytics.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Or Chevy says Samberg hasn't played for 9 months, we like what we have here, but we want to make sure he is ready, when the time comes. Then he says I'm going to sign Forbort, because I think he would fit well with Pionk, replacing Kulikov. Then Chevy probably says I'll sign De Melo and Beaulieu, as a package deal, and Maurice says I like those players. I'm going to sign Sbisa because I know you liked his work last year, and I am going to to sign Niku, because he's got some pace to his game, I think he can make the step to the next level, and he's willing to accept his role, as a depth defenseman this year. Kid's matured. Both Chevy and Maurice were defensemen so I am pretty sure they have a good conversation about what kind of players they would like. I'd be surprised if Maurice alone picks the team. I'd be surprised if he had the ultimate say in Sbisa being waived.

Heinola probably gets talked about a lot, because the potential with this kid is high, and they probably want to make sure they get him in the lineup when they feel he is physically mature enough for the grind of a hard season.

Not a single poster on this board had Stanley picked for the starting lineup, so he was a nice surprise, as an injury replacement.

Might get the call again, with an injury.

But I think Maurice gets way too much credit all the management decisions. He might prefer physically mature veterans over younger prospects, but I'm not so sure that Chevy isn't in the same boat. Given the way he played hockey.

I don't know how much input Maurice might have on which players to sign, re-sign. But of the players he has available to him in the system, he will get pretty much what he wants.

 

[voyageur]

I don't know how much input Maurice might have on which players to sign, re-sign. But of the players he has available to him in the system, he will get pretty much what he wants.

Except when there are 23 players on the active roster, as the past couple of weeks have been. Then the decision to waive a player off the roster would ultimately be Chevy's. So the argument for the past couple of weeks is play Beaulieu or play Niku.

Since we are going with the originally signed roster, minus the loss of Sbisa, it's not really in Maurice's hands. I'm sure there was a discussion between coach and GM as to who would fit this role, and I said at the start of the year that Maurice would stick with Beaulieu that's his guy. I'm also quite sure that there was some discussion about injury depth, which is best filled by ELCs.

Stanley would have been around 10-11 on most depth charts to start the year. He's risen to #8, and could rise to #6, but I think there is a growth process that both coach and GM wanted for Samberg, and that they have wanted for all d-men since Maurice started coaching. When you factor in non coaching variables like Little's LTIR accruing throughout the year, and leaving more Cap room towards the end of the season, it factors into how to construct a roster. Then there are the performance bonuses for players like Stanley and Ves, which could be factors on next year's Cap if not managed correctly. There's expansion draft considerations. There's a lot that goes into making a roster. I think it will look different later in the year, as I believe rosters can be expanded after the trade deadline. With the AHL serving little purpose other than development this year, I think that's when you'll see the biggest changes.

 

[TheGovernment]

Give it a rest. It’s not an endorsement of Maurice but he does realize analytics are a part of the game. Whether he uses them or understands them appropriately is another matter.

I get it, you don’t like him, no need to rehash it every post.

Ahhh... so which is it, he accepts them, as you say But doesn’t understand them? or use them appropriately? Or accepts them and uses them appropriately because he understands? Lol

If people can post how much they think he’s doing a great job, I can post how he’s shit. Or don’t allow any opinions of it at all and be done.

 

[Whileee]

I'm pretty sure that Maurice understands data / analytics better than the large majority of media members and fans.

Anyone who thinks that they can get deep insight into Maurice's actual thinking about the Jets' performance data based on press conferences, they are being naive. Still, Maurice has openly noted that he realizes that the Jets' main area for improvement is in reducing the volume of high danger shots against, which is consistent with publicly available in shot metrics data. But as Maurice has said repeatedly, he's not going to introduce negative comments about his team or individual players into public interviews because the press will do that enough.

For me, the most puzzling aspect of Maurice's coaching is his use of defensemen. He evidently sees something or assesses something that is very much at odds with how I view the play or the public shot metrics. Maybe it's just a matter of maintaining some sort of cohesiveness with the veteran players, or traditional notions about having some grit and toughness in the lineup. Or maybe Chevy has more influence in terms of which players are available on the roster. Regardless, it is a bit of a mystery that I doubt we'll ever get a clear answer on from Maurice.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Ahhh... so which is it, he accepts them, as you say But doesn’t understand them? or use them appropriately? Or accepts them and uses them appropriately because he understands? Lol

If people can post how much they think he’s doing a great job, I can post how he’s shit. Or don’t allow any opinions of it at all and be done.

He’s doing a shit job the Jets are 4 out of 5 and second place.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Except when there are 23 players on the active roster, as the past couple of weeks have been. Then the decision to waive a player off the roster would ultimately be Chevy's. So the argument for the past couple of weeks is play Beaulieu or play Niku.

Since we are going with the originally signed roster, minus the loss of Sbisa, it's not really in Maurice's hands. I'm sure there was a discussion between coach and GM as to who would fit this role, and I said at the start of the year that Maurice would stick with Beaulieu that's his guy. I'm also quite sure that there was some discussion about injury depth, which is best filled by ELCs.

Stanley would have been around 10-11 on most depth charts to start the year. He's risen to #8, and could rise to #6, but I think there is a growth process that both coach and GM wanted for Samberg, and that they have wanted for all d-men since Maurice started coaching. When you factor in non coaching variables like Little's LTIR accruing throughout the year, and leaving more Cap room towards the end of the season, it factors into how to construct a roster. Then there are the performance bonuses for players like Stanley and Ves, which could be factors on next year's Cap if not managed correctly. There's expansion draft considerations. There's a lot that goes into making a roster. I think it will look different later in the year, as I believe rosters can be expanded after the trade deadline. With the AHL serving little purpose other than development this year, I think that's when you'll see the biggest changes.

If Maurice wanted a player, it would be up to Chevy to figure out how to do it. And you keep using that excuse when it has not applied at all for the last week since Comrie finished his quarantine. But OK, play Niku.

The AHL always serves little purpose other than development, especially the Moose.

The fact that Maurice playing Beaulieu was predictable does not make it a good move.

None of what you are saying applies to keeping Beaulieu in the lineup because there are easy solutions.

 

[Ducky10]

Ahhh... so which is it, he accepts them, as you say But doesn’t understand them? or use them appropriately? Or accepts them and uses them appropriately because he understands? Lol

If people can post how much they think he’s doing a great job, I can post how he’s shit. Or don’t allow any opinions of it at all and be done.

You turned a comment about Maurice using and understanding analytics into another retread comment about him doing a shit job. The conversation wasn’t even about whether he was doing a good or bad job, it was about analytics. You’re totally entitled to your opinion, but you don’t need to keep repeating it ad naseum.

 

[Ducky10]

What did Maurice say last month?

You’ll do your deep dives and your analytics and boy do they do a horseshit job of telling you what five guys do.

I never dismissed analytics. I dismiss the overreaching conclusions many of you make based on the primitive publicly available analytics. Big difference.

Look, you guys can preach about Petan or Dano being budding superstars, or how important Corsi is but when those guys fail, and when the top Corsi team doesn’t even make the playoffs, maybe you should reconsider how much stock you should be putting into these primitive analytics.

Maurice calls it horseshit. Hockey nerd Schiefele is dismissive of it. I guess I am the dinosaur by not selling out my opinions based on “horseshit” analytics.

Lol, you cherry pick where the analytics don’t reach the conclusion and ignore all the times they are correct. In essence you just ride around pointing out when people were wrong after the fact and never talk about all the times they were right.

Pretty easy

 

[Do or Die]

Anxiously awaiting the injury update on 88.

 

[Guffman]

Lol, you cherry pick where the analytics don’t reach the conclusion and ignore all the times they are correct. In essence you just ride around pointing out when people were wrong after the fact and never talk about all the times they were right.

Pretty easy

That’s not a fair statement. I always thought the over reliance on Corsi was ridiculous and I very easily looked back at historical standings to note that high quality teams often have middling Corsi.

Now, some people would argue about the so-called predictive element of some of these stats (“yeah, we’re winning now somehow BUT these stats show that we will eventually lose!!”). I’ve always challenged these people to make end-of-year predictions based off of the first 20 games. They never take me up on this.

I offer that challenge again now. Tell me who is overperforming right now (teams and players) based off of these predictive statistics and tell me where you predict they end up.

 

[Guffman]

I'm pretty sure that Maurice understands data / analytics better than the large majority of media members and fans.

Anyone who thinks that they can get deep insight into Maurice's actual thinking about the Jets' performance data based on press conferences, they are being naive.

Do you think the Jets analyze based on publicly available data or do they have more sophisticated measurements/adjustments?

The argument here is whether public data is sophisticated enough to capture what is going on out there. I don’t think a guy like Schiefele would be deceptive on this topic (Maurice, yes, Schiefele, no).

 

[TheGovernment]

You turned a comment about Maurice using and understanding analytics into another retread comment about him doing a shit job. The conversation wasn’t even about whether he was doing a good or bad job, it was about analytics. You’re totally entitled to your opinion, but you don’t need to keep repeating it ad naseum.

Why not? People keep praising him for his mediocre coaching career.... seems like I can even out the garbage that he is somehow a good coach.
This entire forum is nothing but people repeating literally everything , constantly. How this player is good, this player is bad, this team is good, this team is bad..... but since you don’t agree, it’s “ad nasuem” lol soooo typical.

 

[TheGovernment]

He’s doing a shit job the Jets are 4 out of 5 and second place.

Outshot very game but almost double, goaltending the only reason we seem to win or loose a game. Yup, he’s on fire!
But you aren’t allowed to post that. It’s offending me that you like him lol

 

[Adam da bomb]

Outshot very game but almost double, goaltending the only reason we seem to win or loose a game. Yup, he’s on fire!
But you aren’t allowed to post that. It’s offending me that you like him lol

So put me and most of the rest of ppl on ignore if you feel offended. Outshot pshh pwssh only thing that matters is the W. No one takes away your championship ring if you are outshot. No one says your win doesn’t count because uh duh look at the shot count. The score is 32-21 for them. The rest of us will take the lower score of 3-1.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Beaulieu likely out 4 weeks. Be very careful what you say on this thread


This is your only warning

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Anxiously awaiting the injury update on 88.

Jets defenceman Nathan Beaulieu out 'weeks' with upper-body injury

I hate seeing people get hurt, but maybe this was the sign that Maurice needed. Welcome back, Logan Stanley.

 

[TheGovernment]

So put me and most of the rest of ppl on ignore if you feel offended. Outshot pshh pwssh only thing that matters is the W. No one takes away your championship ring if you are outshot. No one says your win doesn’t count because uh duh look at the shot count. The score is 32-21 for them. The rest of us will take the lower score of 3-1.

Ummm I’m not actually offended, that was a joke lol. If we all agreed on everything, it would be a pretty boring forum.
As for the shot count, it’s nice getting the wins but man, it’s only a matter of time before that bubble bursts when we play better teams. Obviously team like Calgary, Vancouver and Ottawa we have a better chance of getting through it but when we start playing out of our division, it’s gonna be a death sentence with guys like Ovi firing them at us and out D not being able to get the puck out of our own zone.