Speculation: Wings spare parts at the deadline (Actually, the tank thread)

[Detroit Knights]

What would it take to get Evan Bouchard from Oilers? Reports (regardless if true or not) have said they are looking at Bertuzzi and next year, we will have a whole in our RD with Haag and Psysk officially gone.

EDM:
Bertuzzi

DET:
Bouchard

What get's added? Assume we can do a sign and trade for Bertuzzi to strengthen that side if needed and also assume that the covid vaccine doesn't matter (reports on canada side saying they will most likely stop and get with the times). Keep in mind Bertuzzi was here with Holland too, so never know if that matters.

I looked at Bouchard's stats and even though he is on a team with McJesus and Draisatl, his point production went south this year and his minutes have gone down 2 full minutes on average. He is a RD and we need one as our LD prospects are overfilling.

 

[norrisnick]

What would it take to get Evan Bouchard from Oilers? Reports (regardless if true or not) have said they are looking at Bertuzzi and next year, we will have a whole in our RD with Haag and Psysk officially gone.

EDM:
Bertuzzi

DET:
Bouchard

What get's added? Assume we can do a sign and trade for Bertuzzi to strengthen that side if needed and also assume that the covid vaccine doesn't matter (reports on canada side saying they will most likely stop and get with the times). Keep in mind Bertuzzi was here with Holland too, so never know if that matters.

I looked at Bouchard's stats and even though he is on a team with McJesus and Draisatl, his point production went south this year and his minutes have gone down 2 full minutes on average. He is a RD and we need one as our LD prospects are overfilling.

Bouchard would be like getting another Hronek. It's overkill. He's not the guy we necessarily need for our 3rd pairing RD spot. We just need to find a right-handed Maatta. Trading for Bouchard might be a move if someone backs up a Brinks truck for Hronek for whatever reason.

But overall, on a team with Seider and Hronek around presumably for another decade, Bouchard isn't a fit. At least not one we should go out of our way to pursue.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Bouchard would be like getting another Hronek. It's overkill. He's not the guy we necessarily need for our 3rd pairing RD spot. We just need to find a right-handed Maatta. Trading for Bouchard might be a move if someone backs up a Brinks truck for Hronek for whatever reason.

But overall, on a team with Seider and Hronek around presumably for another decade, Bouchard isn't a fit. At least not one we should go out of our way to pursue.

If Eddvinnson, chiarot (when playing correctly), Seider, and Maatta are stay at home defensemen, a counter punch of hronek and bouchard on different D-pairings would be a good idea because providing point support from defensemen gives another attack offensively.

Walman - Seider
Chiarot - Hronek(?)
Maatta - Bouchard
Edvinnsson?/?

And let's say instead of a brinks truck for hronek, we traded him instead? his value is at all time highest, two years older than Bouchard who now has playoff experience on a pretty good team with 9 points in 16 games (CF% and Fenwick if people care were 56 and 55 respectively in that playoff run, regular season stats are better). He would be a great replacement to Hronek and far more cheaper at this current time.

Run it like a business with Yzerman brain (analytical I am assuming). You get a younger, cheaper Hronek with playoff experience on a team with pretty good, generational talent. Then you can trade the older Hronek where his trade value has peaked for a pretty good haul (at least a first I would assume from a contender or part of the package for timo meier if that is still a possibility?

I mean, if they are the same as you believe, it would make even more sense to get bouchard and trade hronek

 

[Detroit Knights]

We can all dream...

This would be 2023-24 season start. Sure, we will be completely screwed to sign Raymond and Seider, but Perron would be gone in 2024-2025, Vrana is probably already gone and maybe we could trade chiarot/kubalik/copp? Then it would all fit like gangbusters!!

 

[norrisnick]

If Eddvinnson, chiarot (when playing correctly), Seider, and Maatta are stay at home defensemen, a counter punch of hronek and bouchard on different D-pairings would be a good idea because providing point support from defensemen gives another attack offensively.

Walman - Seider
Chiarot - Hronek(?)
Maatta - Bouchard
Edvinnsson?/?

And let's say instead of a brinks truck for hronek, we traded him instead? his value is at all time highest, two years older than Bouchard who now has playoff experience on a pretty good team with 9 points in 16 games (CF% and Fenwick if people care were 56 and 55 respectively in that playoff run, regular season stats are better). He would be a great replacement to Hronek and far more cheaper at this current time.

Run it like a business with Yzerman brain (analytical I am assuming). You get a younger, cheaper Hronek with playoff experience on a team with pretty good, generational talent. Then you can trade the older Hronek where his trade value has peaked for a pretty good haul (at least a first I would assume from a contender or part of the package for timo meier if that is still a possibility?

I mean, if they are the same as you believe, it would make even more sense to get bouchard and trade hronek

The brinks truck reference was what you are outlining. Someone offering a trade return we shouldn't turn down. It's something that can happen, but probably more of a draft day/off season set of deals.

I'm not opposed in general, I just think it's probably a bit too complicated to try and orchestrate midseason.

 

[jkutswings]

Just don't see why Pastrnak would want to come to detroit.

I'd have to imagine that Larkin would pay for his flight and find him a house. First, to have a bona fide scorer here, and second, that kind of splash could only help Dylan seeking a bit more in his own contract.

 

[Oddbob]

Lindström is suitable for 7th D role, i could see him getting 1-year extension. Org and coaches know him, i don't think it's necessary to get rid of him and look for someone else in that role. Trade/waive him when Johansson/Wallinder is ready.

Määttä and Sundqvist could get traded, but i think both of would be brough back with 2-year deals.

I was thinking Oesterle as a 14th forward/8t d-man utility guy, he's extension would be cheap and it doesn't bother him if he sits 10 games a row in the stands.

I think Bert has to settle for a short term deal, 3-4 year deal max.

I was thinking Copley as a backup but he re-signed, Korpisalo and Stolarz are only intresting ones left. So we might get stucked with Hellberg. Im willing to give him a chance if the experiment fails, we trade for a goalie during the next season or grab someone from waivers.

Lindstrom is a healthy scratch even with Oesterle and Hagg on the team. That shows where he stands with the team in my view.

I was briefly confused as I looked up goalie stats and saw Hellberg at a .901 for the year (which is exactly league average by the way). He had a .935 game for Ottawa this year. Expecting higher than league average SV% from your backup is not really what we can expect from our caliber team.

His save percentage is .896 with us, and you should definitely expect at least .901 on a bad team from your backup. That isn't some gold standard that is very poor numbers. When he plays you can't count on that he is going to stop the easy shots.

 

[norrisnick]

His save percentage is .896 with us, and you should definitely expect at least .901 on a bad team from your backup. That isn't some gold standard that is very poor numbers. When he plays you can't count on that he is going to stop the easy shots.

There's been maybe 1 goals of his that I didn't like. The Wings have a very bad habit of giving up grade A chances whenever they do make a mistake. There hasn't been a single game of his where he was even top 5 in reasons why we lost. But he's definitely saved us at least that Pitt game we came back 0-4. And he salvaged a point against Arizona to at least get to OT. He was trash in the shootout, but they don't count anyway.

 

[ShelbyZ]

What would it take to get Evan Bouchard from Oilers? Reports (regardless if true or not) have said they are looking at Bertuzzi and next year, we will have a whole in our RD with Haag and Psysk officially gone.

EDM:
Bertuzzi

DET:
Bouchard

What get's added? Assume we can do a sign and trade for Bertuzzi to strengthen that side if needed and also assume that the covid vaccine doesn't matter (reports on canada side saying they will most likely stop and get with the times). Keep in mind Bertuzzi was here with Holland too, so never know if that matters.

I looked at Bouchard's stats and even though he is on a team with McJesus and Draisatl, his point production went south this year and his minutes have gone down 2 full minutes on average. He is a RD and we need one as our LD prospects are overfilling.

I think it was last week where Holland said the Oilers making any moves at the deadline would have to be "cap in and cap out' meaning they'll have to move out as much salary as they are bringing in.

Of course, the Wings can help with that.... They'd probably have to retain on Bertuzzi and take back salary, which likely affects the return from Edmonton. An un-retained Puljujarvi would probably have to come back either as a throw in or with the Oilers attaching an extra asset for the Wings to take him on.

A "sign and trade" is pretty unrealistic for this given that the Oilers (and just about every other interested team) would likely need retention. The Wings can just give the Oilers and Bertuzzi permission to discussion an extension and if they agree on something, he can sign it after he's officially traded. And that would likely affect the return as well. I would think if Bertuzzi and his camp thought the Wings were looking to re-sign just so they can offer him to the highest bidder, they'll just wait till at least after the draft to sign anything so he can have control over where he ends up.

As far as Bouchard, I don't see the Oilers trading him unless they're getting some sure thing upgrade at RD. In a a weird way, him having a down year is probably favorable for Holland since they can use that to lowball him on a short term bridge deal this summer.

 

[Oddbob]

There's been maybe 1 goals of his that I didn't like. The Wings have a very bad habit of giving up grade A chances whenever they do make a mistake. There hasn't been a single game of his where he was even top 5 in reasons why we lost. But he's definitely saved us at least that Pitt game we came back 0-4. And he salvaged a point against Arizona to at least get to OT. He was trash in the shootout, but they don't count anyway.

One of his last starts, he let in 2 stinkers and we lost because of it. Can't remember which game it was, but we outplayed the other team and his lame goals against cost us. He plays exactly like what he was, a waiver pickup goalie.

 

[Henkka]

Lindstrom is a healthy scratch even with Oesterle and Hagg on the team. That shows where he stands with the team in my view.

Or, maybe Oesterle and Hägg are at shopping window. Especially Hägg.

Quite sure when the trade deadline is passed by, and if there's no trades, those others are waived to GR and Lindström will come back to play on NHL side.

 

[norrisnick]

One of his last starts, he let in 2 stinkers and we lost because of it. Can't remember which game it was, but we outplayed the other team and his lame goals against cost us. He plays exactly like what he was, a waiver pickup goalie.

That was the Coyote game. D was caught up ice and no one covered the odd-man rush against. Yote walked unmolested into the slot and ripped a shot through Bertuzzi off the pipe and in stickside. Then about a minute later a wide angle shot gets ripped off the post and bounces right to an unmarked Yote far side for the tap in.

Timing sucked, but blaming the goalie for those... is a bit much.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Or, maybe Oesterle and Hägg are at shopping window. Especially Hägg.

Quite sure when the trade deadline is passed by, and if there's no trades, those others are waived to GR and Lindström will come back to play on NHL side.

I'm quite sure that no one is going to be waived to GR after the deadline considering GR already has a ton of vets and the Wings would have to burn their non-emergency call ups to bring them back up.

Had it not been for Stecher missing most of last year before getting traded to LA, Lindstrom would probably be looking at Group VI UFA this summer. Instead, he's likely going to UFA by not getting the $997.5k QO required to make him an RFA.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I'd have to imagine that Larkin would pay for his flight and find him a house. First, to have a bona fide scorer here, and second, that kind of splash could only help Dylan seeking a bit more in his own contract.

Yeah that is why larkin would want him, not why pastrnak would want to be here.

The brinks truck reference was what you are outlining. Someone offering a trade return we shouldn't turn down. It's something that can happen, but probably more of a draft day/off season set of deals.

I'm not opposed in general, I just think it's probably a bit too complicated to try and orchestrate midseason.

I see, didn't click in my head. my bad.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I think it was last week where Holland said the Oilers making any moves at the deadline would have to be "cap in and cap out' meaning they'll have to move out as much salary as they are bringing in.

Of course, the Wings can help with that.... They'd probably have to retain on Bertuzzi and take back salary, which likely affects the return from Edmonton. An un-retained Puljujarvi would probably have to come back either as a throw in or with the Oilers attaching an extra asset for the Wings to take him on.

I was thinking no retaining on bert but we would take back salary since they need it. Pool would be fine and I looked at edmonton cap; taking pool and bouchard would make them under the cap for bert. I just wasn't sure if we added pool to bouchard, what else would need to be added.

Are we saying bouchard for bert is a hockey trade in the making or is there adding as far as making it fair? In other words, if the cap wasn't an issue, would bouchard for bert be an equal trade? Honestly, since we are taking a D from them, I would add Hagg for Pool. Salary structure works and they get a depth defenseman.

A "sign and trade" is pretty unrealistic for this given that the Oilers (and just about every other interested team) would likely need retention. The Wings can just give the Oilers and Bertuzzi permission to discussion an extension and if they agree on something, he can sign it after he's officially traded. And that would likely affect the return as well. I would think if Bertuzzi and his camp thought the Wings were looking to re-sign just so they can offer him to the highest bidder, they'll just wait till at least after the draft to sign anything so he can have control over where he ends up.

Makes sense. I was just saying sign and trade as a added bonus to sweeten the deal. permission to talk works too. Don't see why Yzerman would say no.

As far as Bouchard, I don't see the Oilers trading him unless they're getting some sure thing upgrade at RD. In a a weird way, him having a down year is probably favorable for Holland since they can use that to lowball him on a short term bridge deal this summer.

It does make sense for holland to keep because of his down year for salary cap reasons, but Holland is going to Holland, and he doesn't look to the distant future like we all know. It is obvious they are looking to win now and Bert could probably push them over the edge a bit as the Avs had their injuries and not looking like last year because of it.

 

[Umingmak]

Why not try to re-sign Maatta for another year or two? He’s been such a great influence on Hronek, and I think it would be a mistake not to keep them together long term. Edvinssonn can be better sheltered in his rookie year if he’s kept to the third pair (barring some rookie Seider level performance).

 

[ShelbyZ]

I was thinking no retaining on bert but we would take back salary since they need it. Pool would be fine and I looked at edmonton cap; taking pool and bouchard would make them under the cap for bert. I just wasn't sure if we added pool to bouchard, what else would need to be added.

I'm not sure of the particulars of the Oilers cap situation aside from Holland saying that deals need to be money in and money out and that they're also going to have issues when they finally take Yamamoto off LTIR. JP+Bouchard still leaves them just under $900k short of Bertuzzi's cap hit and I'm not sure how big of deal that is for them (though the Wings retaining that $900k wouldn't be a huge deal I suppose).

Are we saying bouchard for bert is a hockey trade in the making or is there adding as far as making it fair? In other words, if the cap wasn't an issue, would bouchard for bert be an equal trade? Honestly, since we are taking a D from them, I would add Hagg for Pool. Salary structure works and they get a depth defenseman.

Adding on which side? I feel like if I was an Oilers fan, I'd rather see Bouchard go if he's part of a pretty sure thing to get them over that edge. A seemingly injury prone winger on pace for like 9 goals and 20 assists seems risky for that type of return...

Shoe on the other foot... Would you have done Kronwall for Todd Bertuzzi at the 2007 Deadline? Our D prospects all weren't great at the time, so I have to use a forward, but maybe Nyquist for Stephen Weiss at the 2013 Deadline?

That's a good point that the Oilers likely need a D if they give up Bouchard for a forward, but I would think they would look elsewhere or just call up Koekkoek before considering Hagg... But making room for whatever dman's cap hit comes in probably necessitates retention on Bertuzzi.

Makes sense. I was just saying sign and trade as a added bonus to sweeten the deal. permission to talk works too. Don't see why Yzerman would say no.

I don't think he would either.

It does make sense for holland to keep because of his down year for salary cap reasons, but Holland is going to Holland, and he doesn't look to the distant future like we all know. It is obvious they are looking to win now and Bert could probably push them over the edge a bit as the Avs had their injuries and not looking like last year because of it.

I get it, but even at his most desperate to keep the playoff streak alive, Holland always seemed to prefer throwing away draft picks over NHL level prospects that are the caliber of Bouchard. He's probably better spent on some of the bigger names that have been linked to the Oilers like Karlsson, ROR, Kane, Boeser, etc.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Why not try to re-sign Maatta for another year or two? He’s been such a great influence on Hronek, and I think it would be a mistake not to keep them together long term. Edvinssonn can be better sheltered in his rookie year if he’s kept to the third pair (barring some rookie Seider level performance).

Log jam on D.

Honestly, if Detroit can get rid of Chiarot without paying a premium for someone to take him? I dump Chiarot and re-sign Maatta to play with Hronek for another season. Either put Ed as the 1LD or the 3LD and find a vet RHD for the 3rd pair. Maybe a retread like Nick Jensen? Or a savvy vet having a resurgence like Luke Schenn?

 

[Henkka]

Had it not been for Stecher missing most of last year before getting traded to LA, Lindstrom would probably be looking at Group VI UFA this summer. Instead, he's likely going to UFA by not getting the $997.5k QO required to make him an RFA.

RhD market is quite deep and large at next summer, wouldn't be surprised, if Yzerman will finally find a vet to play with Edvinsson.

Log jam on D.

Honestly, if Detroit can get rid of Chiarot without paying a premium for someone to take him? I dump Chiarot and re-sign Maatta to play with Hronek for another season. Either put Ed as the 1LD or the 3LD and find a vet RHD for the 3rd pair. Maybe a retread like Nick Jensen? Or a savvy vet having a resurgence like Luke Schenn?

Toungh to believe Chiarot going anywhere. Edvinsson will be added, and either Walman or Määttä re-signed. Then I could see Yzerman getting vet RhD.

Walman/Chiarot - Seider
Määttä/Chiarot - Hronek
Edvinsson - vet RHD (Dumba/Severson/Hamonic/Gudas/Jensen/TvR ?)
(Wallinder, GR) - Lindström/another vet RhD (like Pysyk, Strålman, Braun)

 

[NickH8]

RhD market is quite deep and large at next summer, wouldn't be surprised, if Yzerman will finally find a vet to play with Edvinsson.



Toungh to believe Chiarot going anywhere. Edvinsson will be added, and either Walman or Määttä re-signed. Then I could see Yzerman getting vet RhD.

Walman/Chiarot - Seider
Määttä/Chiarot - Hronek
Edvinsson - vet RHD (Dumba/Severson/Hamonic/Gudas/Jensen/TvR ?)
(Wallinder, GR) - Lindström/another vet RhD (like Pysyk, Strålman, Braun)

I would like Jensen back. Missed him. Perfect 3rd pair dman.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I'm not sure of the particulars of the Oilers cap situation aside from Holland saying that deals need to be money in and money out and that they're also going to have issues when they finally take Yamamoto off LTIR. JP+Bouchard still leaves them just under $900k short of Bertuzzi's cap hit and I'm not sure how big of deal that is for them (though the Wings retaining that $900k wouldn't be a huge deal I suppose).

Yeah 900k is nothing. Regardless, bert's contract is done after the season so, holding on to 50% would be fine, since we are not cap strapped.

Adding on which side? I feel like if I was an Oilers fan, I'd rather see Bouchard go if he's part of a pretty sure thing to get them over that edge. A seemingly injury prone winger on pace for like 9 goals and 20 assists seems risky for that type of return...

Shoe on the other foot... Would you have done Kronwall for Todd Bertuzzi at the 2007 Deadline? Our D prospects all weren't great at the time, so I have to use a forward, but maybe Nyquist for Stephen Weiss at the 2013 Deadline?

TBH not sure about kronwall or bertuzzi because I am not familiar with Kronwall's game in the beginning. Although, we knew who todd was because of his goal scoring past, so maybe? I hated the weiss deal from the beginning and was never a fan, so no. I also thought Nyquist had Datsyuk-lite ceiling at the time, so probably would have lost my mind if that happened.

That's a good point that the Oilers likely need a D if they give up Bouchard for a forward, but I would think they would look elsewhere or just call up Koekkoek before considering Hagg... But making room for whatever dman's cap hit comes in probably necessitates retention on Bertuzzi.

I offer hagg because holland likes veteran type players (from past experience obviously) and hagg has a purpose for the right system. He makes stupid penalties, but may its the system he is in? He does have a pretty good shot from the point when he does shoot it, and he is a gritty defensemen that can lay the body out. That's why I open him up to the trade and I don't think Bouchard has that kind of physicality, albeit I don't have much experience watching him either to be fair.

RhD market is quite deep and large at next summer, wouldn't be surprised, if Yzerman will finally find a vet to play with Edvinsson.



Toungh to believe Chiarot going anywhere. Edvinsson will be added, and either Walman or Määttä re-signed. Then I could see Yzerman getting vet RhD.

I would absolutely hate it if maatta and walman weren't signed. Before the pneumonia, maatta was amazing, he has tailed off, but I don't think he tailed off that much and has been playing better recently.

Always liked maatta since he was on the penguins.

Walman/Chiarot - Seider
Määttä/Chiarot - Hronek
Edvinsson - vet RHD (Dumba/Severson/Hamonic/Gudas/Jensen/TvR ?)
(Wallinder, GR) - Lindström/another vet RhD (like Pysyk, Strålman, Braun)

Gudas would be a high probability since he has signed him before. I love gudas when he isn't playing against the wings, his toughness is almost unmatched. Gudas would also be pretty beneficial for edvinnsson too.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Everyone is so f'n impatient to be able to declare definitive bust or boom on a player.

That definitely is one of my pet peeves when it comes to the rebuild. Everyone is so quick to put ceilings on players.

 

[jkutswings]

That definitely is one of my pet peeves when it comes to the rebuild. Everyone is so quick to put ceilings on players.

This will never be true. Total bust of a comment.

 

[Pavels Dog]

This will never be true. Total bust of a comment.

I could see my comment developing into an all-timer tbh.

 

[norrisnick]

I could see my comment developing into an all-timer tbh.

Clearly a product of my playmaking. I did all the work to give you a tap-in.