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Prospect Info: Wings Prospect Discussion

OgeeOgelthorpe

OgeeOgelthorpe

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FabricDetails said:
Oh ok...

thehockeywriters.com

Red Wings Have the Worst Draft Lottery Luck this Decade - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Over the course of the last decade, the Detroit Red Wings have had the worst draft lottery luck in the entire NHL.
thehockeywriters.com thehockeywriters.com
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Outside of the Zadina gaff in 2018 and missing Stutzle in 2020 I think Detroit did really well with what they had.

This is just if Detroit stayed where they were:
2017 if the Wings pick 7tha do they walk out with Lias Andersson instead of Rasmussen? Probably.
2018 if we stay at 5 instead of dropping to 6th do we gamble on Barret Hayton or still pick Zadina anyway?
2019 at 4 instead of 6 would have likely meant Byram over Seider, and we know that would have been a mistake.
2020 if the wings had the 1st overall pick Lafrenierre was the almost unanimous #1. There were a few here who wanted Byfield instead. Raymond is better than both, and Stutzle had a very, VERY small minority as #1.

Dropping wasn’t the worst thing that happened to Detroit. I’m trying to take the optimistic approach and believe that the adversity of falling made Detroit dig deeper to be better. If there isn’t something that defines the city of Detroit better than that, I don’t know what it is.
 
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NickH8

NickH8

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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Outside of the Zadina gaff in 2018 and missing Stutzle in 2020 I think Detroit did really well with what they had.

This is just if Detroit stayed where they were:
2017 if the Wings pick 7tha do they walk out with Lias Andersson instead of Rasmussen? Probably.
2018 if we stay at 5 instead of dropping to 6th do we gamble on Barret Hayton or still pick Zadina anyway?
2019 at 4 instead of 6 would have likely meant Byram over Seider, and we know that would have been a mistake.
2020 if the wings had the 1st overall pick Lafrenierre was the almost unanimous #1. There were a few here who wanted Byfield instead. Raymond is better than both, and Stutzle had a very, VERY small minority as #1.

Dropping wasn’t the worst thing that happened to Detroit. I’m trying to take the optimistic approach and believe that the adversity of falling made Detroit dig deeper to be better. If there isn’t something that defines the city of Detroit better than that, I don’t know what it is.
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Missing on Stutzle wasn't an error, just bad luck.
 
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Pavels Dog

Pavels Dog

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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Outside of the Zadina gaff in 2018 and missing Stutzle in 2020 I think Detroit did really well with what they had.
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Sure, but there's a bit of a "death of a thousand cuts" going on at the same time. We've lost 10 draft positions in 6 drafts (including the ones lost to expansion teams). That's just insane tbh and adds up.
I'm still optimistic but it's difficult not to feel frustrated especially since almost every year we've been surrounded by lottery winners. Don't be surprised if 10th or 8th win the lottery this year.
 
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Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Outside of the Zadina gaff in 2018 and missing Stutzle in 2020 I think Detroit did really well with what they had.

This is just if Detroit stayed where they were:
2017 if the Wings pick 7tha do they walk out with Lias Andersson instead of Rasmussen? Probably.
2018 if we stay at 5 instead of dropping to 6th do we gamble on Barret Hayton or still pick Zadina anyway?
2019 at 4 instead of 6 would have likely meant Byram over Seider, and we know that would have been a mistake.
2020 if the wings had the 1st overall pick Lafrenierre was the almost unanimous #1. There were a few here who wanted Byfield instead. Raymond is better than both, and Stutzle had a very, VERY small minority as #1.

Dropping wasn’t the worst thing that happened to Detroit. I’m trying to take the optimistic approach and believe that the adversity of falling made Detroit dig deeper to be better. If there isn’t something that defines the city of Detroit better than that, I don’t know what it is.
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The thing that you are missing is the context of who jumped and how that shakes things up.

2017, the Avs hold their spot, they don't take Makar at 1. Vancouver isn't there to take Pettersson at 5. The trickle down effect of how other teams value players is really important. You could feasibly say that Makar is available at 7 and Lias Andersson had already been taken. Of course, we had Kenny and Wright running the draft, so it's hard to envision us taking Makar, but maybe somehow Pettersson fell. He was ranked 7th on Bob's final list. We just don't know.

It depends on the result of the lottery really, is the lottery eliminated, does it go chalk, does one thing land differently.

There's a different timeline that it plays out and the Wings end up with Pettersson, Kotkaniemi, Byram, and Byfield. There's a different timeline where we end up with Andersson, Zadina, Turcotte, and Lafreniere.

There's just way too many variables at play to make a concrete statement of what the alternative looks like because there are infinite alternatives.
 
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jaster

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Given what players were available, who picked who, etc, etc... yes, there are multiple timelines, but it seems fairly clear the Wings lucked out in not being hurt nearly as much by losing all those draft positions as they could have been. To me, 2020 is the only one that really stings, because A) we were by far the worst team in the NHL and drafted 4th, so that sucks just on principle, and then B) we missed out on Stutzle. But then you have the 'multiple timelines' factor come into play again... does Detroit even pick Stutzle if they had #1 or #2?

Losing 8 spots in 4 years certainly sucks, but it's not as damaging as a lot of people think.

Comparatively, what really bit Detroit in all these years was the poor drafting with the top picks they had in 17 and 18. Rasmussen is maybe finally becoming a player, which is great, but Detroit passed on Necas, Suzuki, and Hughes in 17/18. That stings more than missing out on the likes of Lias Andersson, Casey Mittelstadt, Barret Hayton, and Alex Turcotte.
 
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Killerjas

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Mar 6, 2017
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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Outside of the Zadina gaff in 2018 and missing Stutzle in 2020 I think Detroit did really well with what they had.

This is just if Detroit stayed where they were:
2017 if the Wings pick 7tha do they walk out with Lias Andersson instead of Rasmussen? Probably.
2018 if we stay at 5 instead of dropping to 6th do we gamble on Barret Hayton or still pick Zadina anyway?
2019 at 4 instead of 6 would have likely meant Byram over Seider, and we know that would have been a mistake.
2020 if the wings had the 1st overall pick Lafrenierre was the almost unanimous #1. There were a few here who wanted Byfield instead. Raymond is better than both, and Stutzle had a very, VERY small minority as #1.

Dropping wasn’t the worst thing that happened to Detroit. I’m trying to take the optimistic approach and believe that the adversity of falling made Detroit dig deeper to be better. If there isn’t something that defines the city of Detroit better than that, I don’t know what it is.
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In 2018, Hayton and Kotkatniemi were drafted on needs. Holland would have drafted Bouchard if Zadina was gone at 6
 
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jkutswings

jkutswings

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Killerjas said:
In 2018, Hayton and Kotkatniemi were drafted on needs. Holland would have drafted Bouchard if Zadina was gone at 6
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Which would have been a much better pick, as it turns out. But then we don't know what Detroit does differently with the rest of their picks in that draft or in subsequent drafts.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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I agree that Zadina, and to a far lesser extent Ras are the only real big first round mistakes we have made lately.
 
OgeeOgelthorpe

OgeeOgelthorpe

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Killerjas said:
In 2018, Hayton and Kotkatniemi were drafted on needs. Holland would have drafted Bouchard if Zadina was gone at 6
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Zadina was talked about as a top 3 or top 4 pick. The big reason Kenny picked Zadina instead of Bouchard or Hughes is the fear of missing out on a top 4 talent when you're not picking in the top 4. It's pure speculation but if the Wings were picking at 5 instead of 6 I still think there's a good chance they pick Zadina.

jkutswings said:
Which would have been a much better pick, as it turns out. But then we don't know what Detroit does differently with the rest of their picks in that draft or in subsequent drafts.
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Winning or losing the lottery doesn't change your position in rounds after the 1st. I don't think Detroit's drafts change much from round 2 on. For example, the Wings pick Seider at 6 then go ahead and select another RD in Tuomisto in the 2nd round of the same year.
 
OgeeOgelthorpe

OgeeOgelthorpe

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jaster said:
Given what players were available, who picked who, etc, etc... yes, there are multiple timelines, but it seems fairly clear the Wings lucked out in not being hurt nearly as much by losing all those draft positions as they could have been. To me, 2020 is the only one that really stings, because A) we were by far the worst team in the NHL and drafted 4th, so that sucks just on principle, and then B) we missed out on Stutzle. But then you have the 'multiple timelines' factor come into play again... does Detroit even pick Stutzle if they had #1 or #2?

Losing 8 spots in 4 years certainly sucks, but it's not as damaging as a lot of people think.

Comparatively, what really bit Detroit in all these years was the poor drafting with the top picks they had in 17 and 18. Rasmussen is maybe finally becoming a player, which is great, but Detroit passed on Necas, Suzuki, and Hughes in 17/18. That stings more than missing out on the likes of Lias Andersson, Casey Mittelstadt, Barret Hayton, and Alex Turcotte.
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timeline.gif


Just imagine, Ken Holland doesn't step aside for Yzerman. How different would this team look?
 
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Murmansk16A

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Apr 29, 2022
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ChadS said:
Carter Mazur chosen to team USA for the World Championships in Finland/Latvia!

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Man, I've lost track of all the tournaments that exist these days. How is this one different from the one Lucas Raymond is playing in?
 
ricky0034

ricky0034

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man that's such an ugly World Championship roster for team USA

there's like 2 decent NHLer's and even they are far from stars, Bonino who used to be a decent non-star half a decade ago and some prospects
 
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Pavels Dog

Pavels Dog

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ricky0034 said:
man that's such an ugly World Championship roster for team USA

there's like 2 decent NHLer's and even they are far from stars, Bonino who used to be a decent non-star half a decade ago and some prospects
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yes but future all-star Carter Mazur is on it
 
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