Prospect Info: Wings Prospect Discussion

[jaster]

Fine, because Berggren "graduating" doesn't really mean anything other than you personally don't list him in the prospect pool. But either way he's a 22 year old who is in his rookie season.

The prospect pool discussion is hollow because of arbitrary qualifications that are placed on it. Like Raymond isn't considered a prospect at ages 20, but Soderblom is, despite being older than Raymond. And Johansson is a prospect, but Seider isn't, even though Johansson is older. Just because a player is good, doesn't mean that they are less prospect, just that they are a better prospect. To me, considering someone is graduated means you consider most of their development curve completed.

Like I could say that the Sabres prospect pool is weak because it is led by only Matt Savoie. Pretending that they don't also have Owen Power, Jack Quinn, JJ Peterka, Dylan Cozens, Mattias Samuelsson, Peyton Krebs and Rasmus Dahlin at 22 and under. What do they really have to be concerned about? So is their prospect pool bad, or are they stacked to the brim in really young, high end NHL talent. Or can prospect pool and NHL roster have some overlap?

I think this is largely why many writers will do an "under 25" list for teams, or something similar, which I've liked the idea of more and more over time. Cutting it off at a specific age is also arbitrary, but I think at 25, for instance, that cutoff exists in much less murky water, and at least everyone considered is basically playing by the same rule. It's less "prospect status vs not prospect status" and closer to "still developing vs basically done developing."

For under 25, in Detroit, you are including Seider, Raymond, Berggren, Soderblom, Rasmussen, Veleno, Zadina, and Lindstrom. Which to me provides a more interesting snapshot, because even though those guys have "graduated," they are all still young and developing, and it gives you a better picture of the quality of an organization's "youth."

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I'm sure this is kind of piggybacking off the other guy's question, but when do you see Kasper showing up in the NHL and what kind of projection do you see him in the end? The kid seems to have some pretty good IQ and can put up some hits as well, so he doesn't shy away from danger zones.

 

[Perfect Human]

6. Lombardi. Tyutyayev is playing in the ECHL at 22. I am surprised you mentioned him.

I view all three as players who should be playing primarily in the O zone, all three were overagers too, all three are undersized, with Lombardi as the biggest of the bunch at 5'10". They should definitely be mentioned in the same breath.

 

[jaster]

Can't help wondering why he left BU and where he would have fit with the Terriers (who finished first in Hockey East).

Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess it has to do with academics. That's usually the reason in these cases, where it otherwise doesn't really make sense from a pure hockey point of view.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I view all three as players who should be playing primarily in the O zone, all three were overagers too, all three are undersized, with Lombardi as the biggest of the bunch at 5'10". They should definitely be mentioned in the same breath.

I just don't see him as a legitimate prospect at this point. If you were drafted as a "skill" player and you are playing in the Coast at 22, you really aren't that skilled.

I could see Lombardi as a bottom six, NHL player for sure. I think his skillset could work well under those conditions. I am reserving comment on the Russian until I see him on NA ice.

 

[Perfect Human]

Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess it has to do with academics. That's usually the reason in these cases, where it otherwise doesn't really make sense from a pure hockey point of view.

That sounds right. BU is a bit of a step up from ASU in terms of academics. ASU is pretty much known as a "party" school.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess it has to do with academics. That's usually the reason in these cases, where it otherwise doesn't really make sense from a pure hockey point of view.

There was also a coaching change at BU.

 

[jaster]

There was also a coaching change at BU.

True, and I'm sure that played at least a small part. Also, I remember reading an interview with Mastrosimone when he left BU where he said something about some mental struggles and wanting a fresh start. So who knows. May have been a cauldron of multiple factors.

EDIT: Found it. Men’s Hockey: Exit interview with Robert Mastrosimone | WTBU Radio

First off, what went into your decision to enter the transfer portal?

Robert Mastrosimone: “It was definitely a tough decision. I mean, I love BU. I love everyone here. I love Boston. The city is great. Everything here is awesome. So, it was definitely a tough decision to enter the portal, but at the end of the day, I needed to do what I felt was right for me, and that’s a fresh start. Just getting out, and getting in front of some new faces in a new place. I went through some mental stuff this year that I needed to get resolved. I think that just getting somewhere else will really help me overall mentally, physically and hockey-wise. So, I think just a fresh start was needed.”

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

True, and I'm sure that played at least a small part. Also, I remember reading an interview with Mastrosimone when he left BU where he said something about some mental struggles and wanting a fresh start. So who knows. May have been a cauldron of multiple factors.

EDIT: Found it. Men’s Hockey: Exit interview with Robert Mastrosimone | WTBU Radio

Thanks for finding that.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Organizational depth (aka players in the AHL/Europe/etc) is different than players who are full time roster players. Because player development is non-linear, we tend not to care about age of players who have yet to make the NHL until it starts to indicate their development has plateaued and they are less likely to reach the NHL. Even the guys who wash out of our pool tend to be exceedingly good hockey players when compared against the rest of the world, but that doesn't indicate they were never more than prospects for the NHL team that drafted them.

To use your example, I would say that Buffalo's pipeline might be weakened but that their organizational depth is as strong as ever given all of the good young players they have. When talking about their to-be career NHL players, we are not pretending they do not have Dahlin, Power, Quinn, etc, we are acknowledging that those young players are bonafide NHLers and it no longer makes sense to talk about them as if they are to-be NHLers because they have proven as such. In our case, Soderblom is more of a prospect than Raymond because Raymond has proven he is an NHLer, while Soderblom has a bit more work to do yet. Soderblom is a guy who is on the knife's edge at this point in time between prospect and young NHLer, but it's clear that for this year management does not feel like he has fully elevated his game to where it needs to be.


In sum, I found your points interesting but not an answer to my question. I'm asking the board how they feel about the pool of players who have yet to "earn their keep" in the NHL not about all of the young depth we have on the big squad.

But the reality is that there are virtually zero teams who have a the extent of young, contributing assets that Buffalo has AND a fully stocked prospect pipeline. It's usually one or the other. Concern over Buffalo's pipeline falls into missing the forest for the trees. Sure, they may have weaker pipelines than other teams, but the reality is that even if their stock of bodies was strong, they likely wouldn't be strong enough to jump over the core that they currently have in the NHL.

So there is a distinction. I care as much about the prospect pipeline when I've started tapping into it, because if it was any good, it should promote me to a point where I am sitting on lesser quality prospects.

However, for Detroit, Berggren graduating weakens the pipeline, makes the team better, and I am still left with 3-4 names of guys that I see as being equal to, if not better. And with 4 first round picks in the next 2 years to add players that should be as good or better.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I'm sure this is kind of piggybacking off the other guy's question, but when do you see Kasper showing up in the NHL and what kind of projection do you see him in the end? The kid seems to have some pretty good IQ and can put up some hits as well, so he doesn't shy away from danger zones.

I think he gets a cup of coffee next year and then makes the team the year after.

I think that he ends up as a defensively responsible 2C that contributes enough offense to get by. I think that he'll end up sort of like Anthony Cirelli in terms of impact. I hope that he can be that and in addition, have a big offensive impact to make him a true 1C, but it's not what I expect.

I do think that it will take him a couple seasons to get his legs, positioning and footwork up to the standard that we learned

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess it has to do with academics. That's usually the reason in these cases, where it otherwise doesn't really make sense from a pure hockey point of view.

BU’s hockey program jerked him around. He was a top 3 forward on BU in terms of talent but the program would bury him on the 3rd line while a new kid from the USNTDP would be slotted into the top 6 that underperformed. Their hockey program has turned to shit after Quinn left.

Arizona has Mastro playing in a top six role on a surprisingly good hockey team. They can be pretty fun to watch.

 

[MBH]

A few questions with ~1/4 of the season left:

Is Berggren still a prospect?

Sure, if you see him as an established player. Truthfully, he's not established yet.

Is Soderbloom still a prospect?

Yes.

Who is more likely to get a contract, Antti Tuomisto or Robert Mastrosimone?

Tuo. Need RHD.
I could see both though. Wings should have contracts to spare up front.
Who else is going to get one next year? Mazur seems likely. Maybe Niederbach or Dower-Nilsson?

What second round NCAA pick is more likely to play in the system (GR or DET) in the 2024-2025 season: Dylan James or Shai Buium?

Buium

Who plays in DET first: Marco Kasper, Simon Edvinsson, or William Wallinder?

Edvinsson.

Who has the best chance to play in the NHL: Dimitri Buchnelnikov, Kirill Tyutyayav, Amadeus Lombardi?

Really hard to say. I'll go with Lombardi.

Does the Alexandre Doucet signing signal the end for Pasquale Zito in the organization?

I think if Zito took the next step and scored 35 goals this year, he'd be under review for a contract, Doucet or not.

 

[jaster]

BU’s hockey program jerked him around. He was a top 3 forward on BU in terms of talent but the program would bury him on the 3rd line while a new kid from the USNTDP would be slotted into the top 6 that underperformed. Their hockey program has turned to shit after Quinn left.

Arizona has Mastro playing in a top six role on a surprisingly good hockey team. They can be pretty fun to watch.

They struggled after Quinn left, yeah. I don't think Mastrosimone was jerked around though. He always played a prominent role in terms of TOI. O'Connell seemed to like to balance his lines more than is typical in college hockey, but it's not like Mastrosimone was singled out, or hidden away. If he played on a line being labeled the "3rd," he was still getting top-6, or top-3 minutes. That said, I don't blame him if he was seeking a sure-fire top-line role, playing with the two other most talented forwards on the roster. He got that at ASU.

 

[Perfect Human]

G Sebastian Cossa - Grand Rapids Griffins, AHL (2021, 15th, DET)

Name: Sebastian Cossa DOB: 2002/11/21 Age: 17 (+ 16 days) POB: Fort McMurray, Alberta Position: Goalie Catches: Left Height: 6 foot 6 ½ Weight: 210 lbs Draft Eligible: 2021 Status: rookie 2019-2020 stats: 10-2-1-1 record | 2.25 GAA | .922 SV% | 2 SO's | has faced 26.8 shots per game Any Oil...

forums.hfboards.com

Try not to engage?

 

[barriers]

 

[Killerjas]

Playing top line as a D+2 in the MHL isnt very "wow!" to me...

 

[GoBoltz56]

Playing top line as a D+2 in the MHL isnt very "wow!" to me...

Agreed. He has been top line there for 2 years and had 12 points in 4 games this year. Not surprising he is on the top line.

 

[ChadS]

Playing top line as a D+2 in the MHL isnt very "wow!" to me...

I think the "wow" is about him joining them for the playoffs which is a huge upgrade for the team. But it was kind of expected since the SKA VHL team's season is over.

 

[barriers]

Yea, it's a Wow from someone who was going to watch the game anyway. "Wow! Michkov v. Buchelnikov. This just got more interesting!"

 

[jkutswings]

Yea, it's a Wow from someone who was going to watch the game anyway. "Wow! Michkov v. Buchelnikov. This just got more interesting!"

Nothing wrong with a good one timer. That's a skill Detroit could use in their lineup one day.

 

[Preposterone]

Playing top line as a D+2 in the MHL isnt very "wow!" to me...

VHL season is over fwiw, where he was also a top line producer. This is just ska giving him more games and stacking their playoff roster.

 

[jaster]

Yea, it's a Wow from someone who was going to watch the game anyway. "Wow! Michkov v. Buchelnikov. This just got more interesting!"

Going down on one knee and scoring gives me such good vibes. Little Russian Brett Hull.

I holding onto the back of the hype train, just letting it drag me along.

 

[barriers]

 

[lilidk]

My guess waw for guy who did not finish the game, got injured, still had 3 points game