Prospect Info: Wings Prospect Discussion

[Henkka]

There’s this weird obsession in hockey that weight is the be all end all of strength. At mazur’s height, 175ish would be a very reasonable weight if he is jacked and not holding a lot of extra fat. He’s probably very strong and just doesn’t have flab.

He is noted as 178 lbs at AHL official playing card.

 

[odin1981]

I think if he gets to like 180-185 in the off season he might see some games next year on a injury call up. The big thing to me is can he keep a reasonable amount of weight 60 games in. I think it is common to see guys drop 20-25 lbs over a season.

I think that is one thing that vets have that is a advantage. Take someone with like a 6' 200ish lb frame, over the year they slim down to like 180 but a rookie could be in a 150-160lb range and that is probably the injury danger.

I say this as someone who when I played football would easily lose 15-20 pounds by the end of every season. It's not the same as hockey but it is a physical contact sport like hockey. So I'm not pulling something outta my ass with this comment. Also with how high caloric burning is skating say 20 minutes a game I wouldn't be surprised if in the playoffs after say 6 months of a season the average player exceeds losing 20+ pounds throughout the year.

I know during the year after every game/practice, I would get home eat 2 say tombstone equivalent pizzas then dinner with the family like a 1 hour later. I was easily eating 4k+ calories a day. Probably closer to 5k-5.5k range.

 

[Murmansk16A]

The Wings had a very physical winger back in the Cup years who played at 6', 180 pounds - Kirk Maltby. At least that's the weight listed on his hockey cards that I have.

 

[Astyanax]

First, guys weighing 175 in the NHL are virtually never stronger than guys weighing 195 lol. But also, that’s just not how it works every time. You’re assuming that players are fully prepared for every physical engagement they find themselves in. But they are not a lot of the time. Getting caught off guard by a guy with far more mass than you can turn out very poorly, health-wise. If you’re not able to brace for a hit, it matters not at all how much of your 175 lbs is muscle or fat. It’s simply physics.


No one is proposing he add 10 lbs of fat lol. And he hasn’t played in the NHL yet. Indications in the AHL mean very little. The NHL is much faster.

I mean look, the Wings want him to add weight and strength, he wants to add weight and strength, and he’s working on adding weight and strength. So I guess take it up with him and the Wings about how unnecessary it all is

Sorry, I really don't mean to comment on your posts specifically, I just think this conversation has gone on too long. Obviously, no one thinks adding fat is the answer, not even the ice cream guy. And deep down, we all know he is a long shot at any weight; he's not exactly killing it at the ahl level. But sure, it is possible. However, the easy appeal to physics isn't fair either. These are not atoms in a super collider. Physics also takes into account: speed, angle, leverage, torque and power. I fully understand that Konstantinov is an outlier, but he played the game under 6 foot and 190 lbs and used physics to absolutely dominated the blueline.and only a car crash took him out.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I understand what yall are saying. I think mazur will be fine

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

This has gone on long enough. It’s time for someone to do the sane thing and subpoena his medical records in the interest of internet justice.

 

[RRhoads]

yup. Personally I think the Wings have the most well rounded pool (show me a better top 2 D/C/G pipeline than Ed/ASP, Kasper/Danielson, Cossa/Augustine), but Wheeler loves himself undersized offensively skilled prospects who kill it in juniors so I'm expecting Buffalo at #1.

Columbus in third

 

[SantosHalper]

Noah Dower Nilsson

 

[jaster]

Sorry, I really don't mean to comment on your posts specifically, I just think this conversation has gone on too long. Obviously, no one thinks adding fat is the answer, not even the ice cream guy. And deep down, we all know he is a long shot at any weight; he's not exactly killing it at the ahl level. But sure, it is possible. However, the easy appeal to physics isn't fair either. These are not atoms in a super collider. Physics also takes into account: speed, angle, leverage, torque and power. I fully understand that Konstantinov is an outlier, but he played the game under 6 foot and 190 lbs and used physics to absolutely dominated the blueline.and only a car crash took him out.

My comment about fat was simply in response to the other poster who mentioned Mazur adding fat to get heavier. I really don't know why that idea came up. Obviously Mazur and the Wings are not trying to get him to add fat.

The easy appeal to physics is 100% valid, because we're talking about how the player will experience the NHL as a whole, and those simple physics matter a lot of the time. Chopping his potential experience into smaller pieces where sometimes the speed, angle, leverage, torque, or power work to mitigate what I'm describing is pointless. The simple physics still trump all that on the whole, and will still matter most of the time when a player is one of the lightest in the league.

Again, there is a reason NHL teams don't generally throw guys into the NHL who don't meet these simple physics requirements. And the ones who are usually get sheltered. Mazur's game, if he makes it (and I believe he will, haven't seen anyone call him a longshot until now), is one where he shouldn't be sheltered.

Vladdy was a very special player, at a different position, in a different era. That's not really a meaningful comparison when it comes to Mazur.

Anyway, everyone seems to agree that Mazur will ultimately be fine, weight-wise. This discussion is more about what is required to be an NHLer.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I understand what yall are saying. I think mazur will be fine

I tend to agree with you. He will continue to get stronger and slightly bigger over time. I also don't think there is a magic requisite size he needs to achieve to play in the NHL. Time will tell.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Noah Dower Nilsson

View attachment 826639

Saw this on the mains, total bummer. Felt like this guy had serious sleeper potential. Multiple injuries can really wreck a prospect's development. Hope he can rebound next season.

 

[HoweFan]

It kinda reminds me of MacIssac.

 

[Tetsuo]

My comment about fat was simply in response to the other poster who mentioned Mazur adding fat to get heavier. I really don't know why that idea came up. Obviously Mazur and the Wings are not trying to get him to add fat.

The easy appeal to physics is 100% valid, because we're talking about how the player will experience the NHL as a whole, and those simple physics matter a lot of the time. Chopping his potential experience into smaller pieces where sometimes the speed, angle, leverage, torque, or power work to mitigate what I'm describing is pointless. The simple physics still trump all that on the whole, and will still matter most of the time when a player is one of the lightest in the league.

Again, there is a reason NHL teams don't generally throw guys into the NHL who don't meet these simple physics requirements. And the ones who are usually get sheltered. Mazur's game, if he makes it (and I believe he will, haven't seen anyone call him a longshot until now), is one where he shouldn't be sheltered.

Vladdy was a very special player, at a different position, in a different era. That's not really a meaningful comparison when it comes to Mazur.

Anyway, everyone seems to agree that Mazur will ultimately be fine, weight-wise. This discussion is more about what is required to be an NHLer.

One thing that is clear is that you have to be quite physically durable to actually play in the NHL. Slight players have a harder time holding up, and unless they are supremely skilled, tend to be less effective. Lots of small players have made it and continue to make it, I think there's just certain considerations for a player's frame that play a role in how soon they are expected to make the jump.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said btw, just adding on.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

One thing that is clear is that you have to be quite physically durable to actually play in the NHL. Slight players have a harder time holding up, and unless they are supremely skilled, tend to be less effective. Lots of small players have made it and continue to make it, I think there's just certain considerations for a player's frame that play a role in how soon they are expected to make the jump.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said btw, just adding on.

I think you also have to have a certain level of luck when developing in lower leagues and in the first few NHL seasons. IIRC, the body responds to repeated low level impacts by making denser, stronger muscles and bones. So if you can get through juniors without getting too tore up but taking some hits your body will be better able to handle the NHL, and then after a few seasons in the NHL you'll be even more toughened up. It's why you see young guys take so many "flukey" injuries their first few years. The inverse of this trait is why astronauts come back to Earth with decreased bone and muscle mass. I worry less about slight players getting injured and more about losing board battles and getting pushed around too much. A small guy with good core strength can be a nightmare to taller players, though, especially if they know how to use their bodies and attack higher centers of gravity.

Mazur plays a decently physical game so hopefully he will be able to handle the NHL, even with a slight frame.

 

[Astyanax]

My comment about fat was simply in response to the other poster who mentioned Mazur adding fat to get heavier. I really don't know why that idea came up. Obviously Mazur and the Wings are not trying to get him to add fat.

The easy appeal to physics is 100% valid, because we're talking about how the player will experience the NHL as a whole, and those simple physics matter a lot of the time. Chopping his potential experience into smaller pieces where sometimes the speed, angle, leverage, torque, or power work to mitigate what I'm describing is pointless. The simple physics still trump all that on the whole, and will still matter most of the time when a player is one of the lightest in the league.

Again, there is a reason NHL teams don't generally throw guys into the NHL who don't meet these simple physics requirements. And the ones who are usually get sheltered. Mazur's game, if he makes it (and I believe he will, haven't seen anyone call him a longshot until now), is one where he shouldn't be sheltered.

Vladdy was a very special player, at a different position, in a different era. That's not really a meaningful comparison when it comes to Mazur.

Anyway, everyone seems to agree that Mazur will ultimately be fine, weight-wise. This discussion is more about what is required to be an NHLer.

Again I think we agree on 99%, that's why I lead with sorry!!!! I wasn't commenting on you per se, just on the subject and didn't know where best to do so. I only mentioned the ice cream guy because it is ridiculous and hilarious. Also I never said physics wasn't valid, just easy!! Because he obviously will not make it long term. But physics is a little more nuanced, not just force and inertia. That is why I mentioned Konstantinov, never never never as a direct comparison. If you read my text I was very careful to call Vladdy and outlier, thus hoping to avoid this sort of confusion.

 

[norrisnick]

Again I think we agree on 99%, that's why I lead with sorry!!!! I wasn't commenting on you per se, just on the subject and didn't know where best to do so. I only mentioned the ice cream guy because it is ridiculous and hilarious. Also I never said physics wasn't valid, just easy!! Because he obviously will not make it long term. But physics is a little more nuanced, not just force and inertia. That is why I mentioned Konstantinov, never never never as a direct comparison. If you read my text I was very careful to call Vladdy and outlier, thus hoping to avoid this sort of confusion.

Vlad was an outlier when he was initiating. There's more than just Nick being Nick that led to the decision to not have Vlad square off against the Legion of Doom for a full series. Lindros having half a foot and 60lbs+ on Vlad was a key factor. Nick and Murph weren't going to engage Eric physically. Vlad would have. We saw similar rag-dolling by Bert against Chelios in the '02 first round. If Chris was ready for it, he could hang. If not, he was going flying.

 

[Killerjas]

The Nilsson brothers looking like they wont make an impact for us, what a pity.

 

[schuelma24]

As I predicted, Wheeler at the Athletic has Buffalo #1 and the Wings #2. It's kind of hilarious - his top 6 Sabre prospects are Levi and 5 not-huge-likely wingers.

Wings rankings:

1. Ed
2. ASP
3. Kasper
4. Danielson
5. Cossa
6. Augustine
7. Mazur
8. Wallinder
9. Buchelnikov
10. Soderblom
11. Buium
12. Gibson
13. N. Dower-Nilsson
14. Lombardi
14. Anton Johansson

 

[SCD]

Berggren and AJ aged out.

 

[RRhoads]

His requirements for being a prospects are weird. He still has Jiricek and Kent Johnson counting.

 

[schuelma24]

His requirements for being a prospects are weird. He still has Jiricek and Kent Johnson counting.

Yeah his general rule is “graduated to the NHL” but then he includes Benson who has been in the NHL the entire year

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

As I predicted, Wheeler at the Athletic has Buffalo #1 and the Wings #2. It's kind of hilarious - his top 6 Sabre prospects are Levi and 5 not-huge-likely wingers.

Wings rankings:

1. Ed
2. ASP
3. Kasper
4. Danielson
5. Cossa
6. Augustine
7. Mazur
8. Wallinder
9. Buchelnikov
10. Soderblom
11. Buium
12. Gibson
13. N. Dower-Nilsson
14. Lombardi
14. Anton Johansson

Called him ranking ASP over Danielson and Kasper.

Dude is a notorious stat-watcher and completely devalues any sort of play that doesn't show up on a scoresheet.

 

[schuelma24]

Called him ranking ASP over Danielson and Kasper.

Dude is a notorious stat-watcher and completely devalues any sort of play that doesn't show up on a scoresheet.

right. given Yzerman's philosophy, it's kind of amazing he has them #2.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

right. given Yzerman's philosophy, it's kind of amazing he has them #2.

Ehh, the high ranking doesn't surprise me, especially when you look at some of the other team's 3-6. Pretty much anybody in Detroit's Top 5 could be #2 in most organizations, and #1 in the lower half.

I didn't really pay attention up until Chicago's ranking, but Kent Johnson in the rankings with well over 100 NHL games is mind-numbing.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Called him ranking ASP over Danielson and Kasper.

Dude is a notorious stat-watcher and completely devalues any sort of play that doesn't show up on a scoresheet.

Really not a bold take considering he had ASP ranked #16 and Danielson ranked #20 in his final draft rankings for 2023.

He has discounted the game that Danielson plays pre-draft and it's not likely to change until 2028's article "the top 10 players I was wrong about in the 2023 draft" drops. He has only ever been able to highlight that he is prototypical size, works hard, skates well, plays 200 feet, and can be on the PK. He ignores the skill and shooting ability that he does display and says there is a good chance he tops out as a 3rd line center.