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Tribute William Nylander Discussion Thread: Ya Gotta Be Blessed Edition

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LeafsNation75 said:
If Toronto was still serious about making the playoffs in 2015 they wouldn't have named Peter Horachek as interim head coach.
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Hindsight, again. Up until the end of that year the owners were only concerned about playoff revenue.
 
Stephen said:
Blame Bettman Economics for turning a stupid winter sport into a game of fiscal conservatism and Survivor mentality.
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You know how you make a league fun to watch? Make 50% of the teams unable to make a profit at the cap floor unless they make playoff gate revenue. Why should the ultimate goal be the Stanley Cup when you can just get Trotz and a bunch of minimum wage grinders to take you to round 2 every year?

The model franchise in this league isn't Pittsburgh or Chicago, it's Nashville and Arizona in their WCF days. Maximum revenue on a minimum budget while acting as a farm for the real teams. Meanwhile teams with budgets overpay star players that can't out-grind the budget meta.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
You know how you make a league fun to watch? Make 50% of the teams unable to make a profit at the cap floor unless they make playoff gate revenue. Why should the ultimate goal be the Stanley Cup when you can just get Trotz and a bunch of minimum wage grinders to take you to round 2 every year?

The model franchise in this league isn't Pittsburgh or Chicago, it's Nashville and Arizona in their WCF days. Maximum revenue on a minimum budget while acting as a farm for the real teams. Meanwhile teams with budgets overpay star players that can't out-grind the budget meta.
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Doesn't Toronto contribute a lot to revenue sharing which has helped teams like Arizona a lot in the past.
 
StevenB said:
Holl has been amazing this season and he deserves to play shutdown minutes as long as he keeps it up. I don’t care how many games played you have, if you can play, you should play.
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Holl and Sandin have been pleasant surprises. So I agree. I'm not saying he can't it's just unlikely. It's asking a lot especially of a d man.
 
hobarth said:
Without those players TO would be the perfect team for Babs to coach. The NYI have 4 more points than TO, their top scorer has 40 points which is less than those 4 Leaf players and the Islanders have a game in hand.
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Babcock would lose his mind with the Islanders. They give up more shots, more HDSCA, turn the puck over more than the Leafs. In fact, they are top 3 in the NHL in all those catergories.

They have just had better goaltending than the Leafs this year
 
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The sky is the limit for all these guys under Keefe.

Matthews is on pace for 57 goals and 95 points
Marner in a full season would be pacing to reach 100 points
Nylander is on pace for 37 goals this year, but a 45 goal pace in games under Keefe
 
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Nylander is a stud, it was just a matter of time before he finally broke out, well worth the money. As for Marner, while he received too much at the time, under Keefe he's been scoring at close to a 120 pt pace, which would justify the money at least if he kept it up. Still not a great deal but certainly looking better now.
 
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TheProspector said:
Hey guys. Go tell your 2008, 2011 or 2015 selves that we have 4 ~1ppg forwards. Including Johnny Tavares.

Now go tell your 2008, 2011 or 2015 selves that Leafs fans on hfboards don't like it.
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You do realize we aren't even in a playoff spot right now, right?

Funny how having multiple high scoring forwards is more important to so many of you than actually winning.
 
TheProspector said:
Hey guys. Go tell your 2008, 2011 or 2015 selves that we have 4 ~1ppg forwards. Including Johnny Tavares.

Now go tell your 2008, 2011 or 2015 selves that Leafs fans on hfboards don't like it.
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Babcock “team just isn’t good enough, I need Atleast 6 PPG forwards and Lidstrom to make the playoffs”
 
1specter said:
Nylander is a stud, it was just a matter of time before he finally broke out, well worth the money. As for Marner, while he received too much at the time, under Keefe he's been scoring at close to a 120 pt pace, which would justify the money at least if he kept it up. Still not a great deal but certainly looking better now.
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Just so we're clear, nylander scoring at a 73 point pace while making 7 mil is "well worth the money".

But marner has to maintain a 120 point pace, playing pk as well as being one of the top 2 puck thief's in the league, while making 10.9 and that's "still not a great deal"??

Just making sure I understand your point.
 
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Stamkos4life said:
Just so we're clear, nylander scoring at a 73 point pace while making 7 mil is "well worth the money".

But marner has to maintain a 120 point pace, playing pk as well as being one of the top 2 puck thief's in the league, while making 10.9 and that's "still not a great deal"??

Just making sure I understand your point.
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Nylander has already passed his career high of 22 goals in a season. So whatever his final goal total is at the end of the regular season ends up being will be his new career high. Basically what I'm saying is who cares what Nylander's contract says because he's worth the $6.9 million AAV that he's making.
 
Stamkos4life said:
Just so we're clear, nylander scoring at a 73 point pace while making 7 mil is "well worth the money".

But marner has to maintain a 120 point pace, playing pk as well as being one of the top 2 puck thief's in the league, while making 10.9 and that's "still not a great deal"??

Just making sure I understand your point.
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No you're not, you're trying to bait me in the most obvious way and simply throwing around a cap hit thinking it has shock value to get your point across.

But hey, let me make it simple for you:

1) Mitch Marner has the 7th highest cap hit in the league, and 2nd highest amongst wingers (only Panarin makes more). He was given this contract without winning any major awards, or even a top 10 finish in points, and as an RFA, while most of his peers received bridge deals. When you rank that high and are paid big money like that up front, the expectations are also high, and since Marner does not play centre or defense, he's being paid primarily to put up points and produce offense above all else. 100+ pts should absolutely be the expectation, that's what it took to crack the top 7 in scoring last year.

A great deal would be a player outperforming their contract, which Marner is not, he is doing what is expected to even make the deal fair, forget about 'great' or even 'good.

2) William Nylander ranks 62nd in cap hits. William Nylander currently ranks 27th in league scoring, and is 12th in goals. Under Keefe, he is scoring at a 45 goal, 85 pt pace, and if Tavares wasn't struggling he would likely have more assists to go with his elite level goal scoring in that time. He has also played well defensively, and has great underlying numbers, as well as leads the league in net front goals this season. Nylander has more goals than guys like Kucherov, Pacioretty, Marchand, your boy Stamkos, amongst others.

One guy is performing in a manner expected of him, while the other is outperforming numerous players who are being paid more. Pretty straightforward stuff.
 
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Lets wait until after the season before evaluate the impact. Hope those on fire continue and the others catch on.
 
1specter said:
No you're not, you're trying to bait me in the most obvious way and simply throwing around a cap hit thinking it has shock value to get your point across.

But hey, let me make it simple for you:

1) Mitch Marner has the 7th highest cap hit in the league, and 2nd highest amongst wingers (only Panarin makes more). He was given this contract without winning any major awards, or even a top 10 finish in points, and as an RFA, while most of his peers received bridge deals. When you rank that high and are paid big money like that up front, the expectations are also high, and since Marner does not play centre or defense, he's being paid primarily to put up points and produce offense above all else. 100+ pts should absolutely be the expectation, that's what it took to crack the top 7 in scoring last year.

A great deal would be a player outperforming their contract, which Marner is not, he is doing what is expected to even make the deal fair, forget about 'great' or even 'good.

2) William Nylander ranks 62nd in cap hits. William Nylander currently ranks 27th in league scoring, and is 12th in goals. Under Keefe, he is scoring at a 45 goal, 85 pt pace, and if Tavares wasn't struggling he would likely have more assists to go with his elite level goal scoring in that time. He has also played well defensively, and has great underlying numbers, as well as leads the league in net front goals this season. Nylander has more goals than guys like Kucherov, Pacioretty, Marchand, your boy Stamkos, amongst others.

One guy is performing in a manner expected of him, while the other is outperforming numerous players who are being paid more. Pretty straightforward stuff.
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What am I trying to "bait" you into doing? You are very confusing.

I literally used your exact words so I'm not sure why you're throwing a fit.

You brought up "money", (how much they make). What do you mean I'm "throwing around a cap hit thinking it has shock value to get your point across"? I added how much they make because that seems relevant when discussing who is worth their contract. But maybe that's just me.

You're comparing nylander's cap hit against multiple defensemen and goalies, then looking at where he sits for points and claiming the high ground? My goodness.

Nylander has the 44th highest cap hit among forwards. He is tied for 25th in scoring but is tied for 39th in ppg, both among forwards. So 5 spots higher than his cap hit.

Marner has the 5th highest cap hit among forwards. He is 20th in points and 11th in ppg, both among forwards.

That doesnt take into account playing on the penalty kill or the fact that the first year of nylander's contract was a complete waste while marner is immediately producing.

Here is your original post.

"Nylander is a stud, it was just a matter of time before he finally broke out, well worth the money."

Here you clearly state nylander (73 point pace) is a "steal" for 7 mil.

"As for Marner, while he received too much at the time, under Keefe he's been scoring at close to a 120 pt pace, which would justify the money at least if he kept it up. Still not a great deal but certainly looking better now."

This is the good part. Here you say marner has to keep up a 120 point pace to justify the money and that it's still not a great deal.

Nylander's play this year is fair to even good value for his contract. I have been hard on nylander in the past but he has been much better this year. You don't win comeback player of the year (mid way) for nothing.

But to say his is a steal while marner's is not great value, even if hes scoring 120 points, is a very bad take.
 
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