Tribute William Nylander Discussion Thread: Ya Gotta Be Blessed Edition

[saltming]

Nope, but there is a good correlation.

But from what I've read all his underlying metrics were very good last season except scoring, so why would you say he was inconsistent?

 

[weems]

fair point, I guess. Buts Hyman was put in a lesser position to succeed and was much better. Its mostly a poor excuse IMO. He wasn't put into a position to succeed because he play wasn't deserving of it...

How is it a poor excuse that giving one of your top 5 offensive players time on the #1 pp unit could heavily correlate with his production improving?

 

[MyBudJT]

But from what I've read all his underlying metrics were very good last season except scoring, so why would you say he was inconsistent?

Because the effort wasn't there and he wasn't doing the right things that translates to goals.

Are you suggesting he was one of the unluckiest players of all-time last season? Come on... the lengths some people will go to make excuses.

 

[MyBudJT]

How is it a poor excuse that giving one of your top 5 offensive players time on the #1 pp unit could heavily correlates with his production improving?

Because you shouldn't give #1PP time to people not deserving of it.

 

[weems]

Sure. But its an excuse. Hyman doesn't need #1PP units to produce.

Nylander doesnt either shown by his fantastic 5v5 scoring numbers.

The point is, putting him on the #1 PP unit was always going to give him a far greater ceiling to produce points.

You're actually a pretty good poster but you go way too far in some of these agenda pushing debates.

We get it. You dont like Nylander.

 

[MyBudJT]

Nylander doesnt either shown by his fantastic 5v5 scoring numbers.

The point is, putting him on the #1 PP unit was always going to give him a far greater ceiling to produce points.

You're actually a pretty good poster but you go way too far in some of these agenda pushing debates.

We get it. You dont like Nylander.

I have no agenda. Tell me, what is my agenda? I like how Nylander has played for most of this season.

 

[weems]

Because you shouldn't give #1PP time to people not deserving of it.

Yes you should when hes one of your best offensive players.

Just because Hyman or whoever might be more "deserving" due to work ethic, it doesnt help your team actually win games.

He's now on the #1 PP and the PP is doing well.

Are you saying Andreas Johnsson was a better option to play on the first PP vs Nylander?

 

[MyBudJT]

Yes you should when hes one of your best offensive players.

Just because Hyman or whoever might be more "deserving" due to work ethic, it doesnt help your team actually win games.

He's now on the #1 PP and the PP is doing well.

Are you saying Andreas Johnsson was a better option to play on the first PP vs Nylander?

No, but Kadri was...

 

[saltming]

Because the effort wasn't there and he wasn't doing the right things that translates to goals.

Are you suggesting he was one of the unluckiest players of all-time last season? Come on... the lengths some people will go to make excuses.

No I'm saying he was unlucky, as a natural thing, not hyperbolic like the unluckiest player of all time. Also, I'm not going to any lengths, I'm just stating the fact that his stat line, except for scoring, was very good and consistent.
The puck did start going in for him later, but maybe that was just a his luck normalizing?

 

[weems]

I have no agenda. Tell me, what is my agenda? I like how Nylander has played for most of this season.

You definitely have a agenda.

Almost all of your posts lately have been in Nylander threads.

You went total AWOL when Babcock got fired and this team went on a heater.

Not a good look.

 

[MyBudJT]

You definitely have a agenda.

Almost all of your posts lately have been in Nylander threads.

You went total AWOL when Babcock got fired and this team went on a heater.

Not a good look.

Lol, okay . You can read my mind and know exactly what I'm thinking...

Also, how is any of this relevant to the debate we were just having? How do I carry on this conversation when you're bringing up a bunch of irrelevant nonsense...?

Why does it matter if most of my posts have been in Nylander threads? Its been a hot-topic for quite some time....

Also, show me going AWOL when Babcock got fired... you're probably confusing me for something else.

In case you missed it, earlier today I said the following:

See, its things like this that is a little over the top.

30G 70P is certainly good value for 7M, but not a steal by any stretch of the imagination.

Again...Nylander has been fine this season, and I don't have any complaints... I have no agenda against Nylander...

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Somebody help I am panicking. I suddenly want to have JT's and Nylander's bayby. Is this natural?

 

[weems]

Lol, okay . You can read my mind and know exactly what I'm thinking...

Also, how is any of this relevant to the debate we were just having? How do I carry on this conversation when you're bringing up a bunch of irrelevant nonsense...?

Why does it matter if most of my posts have been in Nylander threads? Its been a hot-topic for quite some time....

Also, show me going AWOL when Babcock got fired... you're probably confusing me for something else.

In case you missed it, earlier today I said the following:


Again...Nylander has been fine this season, and I don't have any complaints... I have no agenda against Nylander...

You dont have a agenda against Nylander? Ok thats cool.

I'm sure many on here would heavily disagree with that statement tho.

Again, I like reading your posts but sometimes feels like you're extremely overweight on the Nylander criticism.

 

[MyBudJT]

You dont have a agenda against Nylander? Ok thats cool.

I'm sure many on here would heavily disagree with that statement tho.

Again, I like reading your posts but sometimes feels like you're extremely overweight on the Nylander criticism.

Lol... a lot of people here accuse me of a lot of things that isn't true...

 

[Peasy]

No, but Kadri was...

Nylander's first two seasons were better than his career best lol. And if nylander keeps this up you won't even be able to say well kadri has a higher career best for goals.

I can understand an argument for Kadri to be in over nylander but you can easily make as strong of a case for the opposite.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Nylander's first two seasons were better than his career best lol. And if nylander keeps this up you won't even be able to say well kadri has a higher career best for goals.

I could understand an argument for Kadri to be in over nylander but you can easily make such as strong of a case for the opposite.

If Nylander can replace the goal scoring Kadri was able to do and so far he's on track to do that, at least he doesn't have the history of being suspended in the regular season and playoffs.

 

[saltming]

Somebody help I am panicking. I suddenly want to have JT's and Nylander's bayby. Is this natural?

Childbirth is the most natural thing in life...

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Here's the thing with Nylander. Does the increased point pace really indicate a significant change in his play? To some degree, it certainly does. He's doing even better with Tavares than he did with Matthews, and that was a top duo for years. But a large part of that increase comes from the PP, where he's scoring at a three times higher pace for second best on the team, top 10 in the league. Is that a huge step forward for him? Well, we are talking about a player who led the league in primary points relative to ice time in his rookie season. He was simply not used that way since then.

People talk about improved hustle, and I agree that it's been there. He looks more confident, and when he's confident he has that puck hound mentality that almost all the great players have. However, that doesn't really impact the PP where he's seen a large part of the increase. There's also the net front presence, where he's been terrific this season. However, he went to the net a lot even in last years wasted season. There's just a huge difference between arriving there as an option for Tavares instead of Marleau.

So while I do think that he's better now than ever, I don't think it's a significant change in him personally. We've just paid him what teams usually pay one of their top offense drivers, and then put him in a secondary role.

The thing about opportunity is that if you give it to one player, you take it away from another. Here's where that is still a good thing. Getting bang for buck matters. So putting Nylander in that spot not only helps our on-ice results, but we also get more out of him for our cap dollars. PP production costs. Let's say that Mikheyev had gotten a full season (let's ignore the injury for this example) at that spot. He might add 20 more points, and become millions more expensive against the cap. By using Nylander there, we get the most out of his $7M while making our depth and support pieces cheaper.

This is how we should have used him even last season. Who cares about who deserves what? The only thing that matters is what's best for the team, and we let having him earn it overshadow that.

Sadly, most people don't watch our pay enough attention to make a reasoned analysis. They watch the odd game, check the point totals, and make observations.

Nylander has typically been a 60 point player getting 2nd line ES and PP ice-time. That is frankly, very good. Clear 1st line numbers, despite 2nd line opportunity.

Now that he's getting low-end 1st line ES and PP numbers, he's close to a point/game. Under Keefe, where he's basically getting higher-end 1st line ES and PP usage, he's at a point/game pace.

Everyone thinks he's trying harder, and maybe he is. But the big difference here is that Nylander is getting a lot more ice-time, especially on the PP. If he gets this usage (and he should) his contract is a pretty significant bargain.

 

[stickty111]

Quite rude of you to think Nylander detractors are overweight

Lol
@Menzinger and his typos never get old.

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[MyBudJT]

That penalty Nylander took in overtime was against Washington and the Leafs were able to kill it off, however seconds later is when the refs called another penalty on Marner and the Ovechkin eventually scored the game winning goal on that power play. I remember thinking to myself since the NHL started 3v3 when has a team killed off one penalty and called for a second one?

I didn't blame Nylander... I said Marner's penalty resulting from him being tired from being on the PK...

But obviously nobody cares about context....

 

[Peasy]

He literally blamed Nylander for Marner taking a penalty in OT in one of the games this season.
Then he actually has the courage to say he doesn't have a agenda against Nylander?
Give me a break.

Also the second that Nylander fell below a 60 point pace because he had 1 point in 5 games in December he couldn't help himself from bringing it up several times.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yup thats the one. His reasoning was if Nylander didn't take the penalty, Marner wouldn't have taken his. Such hilarious logic. The poster was rightfully called out by other posters.

If anything the refs should have put their whistles away because like I said before in 3v3 overtime when has a team besides Toronto been called for two penalties, especially after killing off the original call?

 

[stickty111]

Also the second that Nylander fell below a 60 point pace because he had 1 point in 5 games in December he couldn't help himself from bringing it up several times.

"I don't have an agenda against Nylander".

 

[Superstar]

I would say there is one change; he is stronger. His stick is heavy and moving him off his skates is very difficult. His playing style is mostly the same, but the added strength is showing.

We all grow up and become a man, right? Wait until all 3 of Willy, Matty and Mitch get their man strength.