Tribute William Nylander Discussion Thread: Ya Gotta Be Blessed Edition

[ACC1224]

We lost a first rounder because Lou signed an absolute anchor that was on the verge of costing us good roster players. The maximum you can argue that Matthews is overpaid is $1M, and that's a huge reach. Give us that cap space, and nothing would have changed. Marleau is still an anchor, he'll still put us in a f-ed up cap situation, and we'd still need to lose something of value because of it.

The lengths some go to complain about Dubas astounds me.

Not everyone sees everything Dubas has done to be perfect.
Not liking one thing doesn't mean you hate everything.

 

[Drytoast]

Not everyone sees everything Dubas has done to be perfect.
Not liking one thing doesn't mean you hate everything.

He nailed it with the Holl signing. I hope he does the same thing with Engvall. I have this strange feeling Dermott is going to try and be a PITA.

 

[Nithoniniel]

There is no argument here regarding the greed of our stars. You should be mad because you got ****ed and in the end it hurts the organization's ability to retain or acquire talent. They care about themselves. They don't care about the Leafs.

All players get paid due to to what they have done in total before the contract. There was nothing out of the ordinary for the Leafs players, other than Matthews being a bit above his comparables and Marner significantly so. But the whole narrative about how they are much more greedy than other players is just ignorant to how the market works.

You talk about Binnington. He got a short contract because no goaltender ever got a big long-term commitment based on half a season. If he intended to maximize his earning, guess what he should have done? Sign a short term contract.

If there's anything noteworthy here, it's that you write half an essay of misery instead of just researching how things work.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Not everyone sees everything Dubas has done to be perfect.
Not liking one thing doesn't mean you hate everything.

I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody sees everything Dubas has done as perfect. There's a difference between opinion and ignorance. If you dislike a current GM because he had to move an anchor of a contract to solve a contract situation left to him by the previous GM, you're not just having a differing opinion.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody sees everything Dubas has done as perfect. There's a difference between opinion and ignorance. If you dislike a current GM because he had to move an anchor of a contract to solve a contract situation left to him by the previous GM, you're not just having a differing opinion.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post.
I don't think anyone dislikes him because he had to move the contract. I don't think it's unreasonable to dislike how he moved the contract.

Anyway, off topic for this thread.
I didn't see much of the last few games but I have no issue with the way Nylander is currently playing.

 

[Drytoast]

All players get paid due to to what they have done in total before the contract. There was nothing out of the ordinary for the Leafs players, other than Matthews being a bit above his comparables and Marner significantly so. But the whole narrative about how they are much more greedy than other players is just ignorant to how the market works.

You talk about Binnington. He got a short contract because no goaltender ever got a big long-term commitment based on half a season. If he intended to maximize his earning, guess what he should have done? Sign a short term contract.

If there's anything noteworthy here, it's that you write half an essay of misery instead of just researching how things work.

Binnington just won the cup. After that you could be justified to pay him anything you want and it wouldn't be outlandish.

Matthews signed an unheard of 5 year 11.6 mil aav with a career high 63 points. Let's not talk about "what they HAVE done" because at the time of signing, none of our 3 had done anything to warrant being paid market setting contracts based off of what they HAD done.

Which as of right now, isn't much.

Here watch this. It's a discussion had by those not blinded by blue and white goggles.



And before you do the typical "I don't like what they are saying so I'm just going to attack the source..." They are chucking around comparable and performances based off of numbers and stats.

So let it sink in. This is where we are at now.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Binnington just won the cup. After that you could be justified to pay him anything you want and it wouldn't be outlandish.

Matthews signed an unheard of 5 year 11.6 mil aav with a career high 63 points. Let's not talk about "what they HAVE done" because at the time of signing, none of our 3 had done anything to warrant being paid market setting contracts based off of what they HAD done.

Which as of right now, isn't much.

Here watch this. It's a discussion had by those not blinded by blue and white goggles.



And before you do the typical "I don't like what they are saying so I'm just going to attack the source..." They are chucking around comparable and performances based off of numbers and stats.

So let it sink in. This is where we are at now.

Which Leaf player was given his contract based on 32 games in the league. What a ridicules comparable.

 

[Drytoast]

Which Leaf player was given his contract based on 32 games in the league. What a ridicules comparable.

He WON THE CUP.

The battle is over. You could give him Price money at that point.

They already won.

 

[18leafsfan18]

He WON THE CUP.

The battle is over. You could give him Price money at that point.

They already won.

Matt Murry won the cup in 2015-2016. Then signed a 3 yr bridge. How do you explain that ?

Or does your bad take only apply to Binnington ?

 

[Drytoast]

Matt Murry won the cup in 2015-2016. Then signed a 3 yr bridge. How do you explain that ?

Or does your bad take only apply to Binnington ?

I explain that as two teams with reasonable players not looking to gouge their team and market.

The only reasonable explanation here for such outrageous greed that I could accept and give the players a pass for would be to suggest that this was a biprodcut of young players hating to play under Babcock who, at the time still had 4+ years on his contract and was appearing to not be going anywhere...

That could very well be true, even though every hockey analyst who's talked about that theory suggested Babcock played no part in the player's demands.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He WON THE CUP.

The battle is over. You could give him Price money at that point.

They already won.

The team won the Cup

 

[18leafsfan18]

I explain that as two teams with reasonable players not looking to gouge their team and market.

Or 2 teams with Goalies that had less then a full season in the league (as a starter), so they had no leverage to say they were worth "Price Money".

Just because a team wins the cup doesn't mean their GM just ignores the cap. Just a bad take all together.

 

[Drytoast]

The team won the Cup

If you can't recognize that the team won the cup primarlly due to the play of their goalie...I mean you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Binnington meant more and played a bigger role to his team winning than Matthews currently does for us.

He could have gotten paid max salary and nobody would f***ing care because he just lead his team to their first Stanley cup ever.

Battle is over. Grow fat and lazy and party hard now. Who cares.

If Matthews Tavares, Marner and Nylander ever win a cup...I'll shut up and party and be happy. And you could resign all 4 or just 1 to whatever the hell you want. The battle would be over, we won.

But with the way our cap is structured now, we are likely going to be regressing each year until the cap goes up enough to balance out these ridiculous over pays. Or until we trade one.

I see this as a slow leak in the Titanic. I'm down here watching the water pour in and I know where this all goes because we've seen this shit before. Meanwhile, Nylander might get a pretty assist or a goal and you are all upstairs on the deck partying hard unaware of the reality of the situation.

That's probably the perfect analogy of what's going on here, lol.

And when you think this is just me being miserable, go have a cap conversation, an HONEST one with anyone about the Leaf's cap structure with anyone who isn't a Leaf fan on these boards.

Go make a thread "opinion on how Dubas is doing" on the general board.

 

[Drytoast]

Or 2 teams with Goalies that had less then a full season in the league (as a starter), so they had no leverage to say they were worth "Price Money".

Just because a team wins the cup doesn't mean their GM just ignores the cap. Just a bad take all together.

They won the damn cup.

They had more of an argument to demand 5 years at 11.6 than 63 point Matthews...lol.

Unless you weigh the importance of a Calder trophy over a Stanley Cup?..

Good god, I wouldn't be surprised here if you did.

 

[robertmac43]

Nylander has completely morphed into the player we all thought he should be 'when we got him' under Keefe.. AssCock kept him in chains! I hope that schmuck never coaches another game in the NHL... I mean, he's stupid rich, I am sure he won't care either way, but still!

I hope he does coach...for one of our rivals so they can go through the boring. aged systems he uses!

 

[ACC1224]

IMO, Nylander isn't a goalie.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

New Year's resolution: become like Dry Toast and rock acid washed dreams and a retro Clark stash while I whine about money and goaltending

 

[Nithoniniel]

Binnington just won the cup. After that you could be justified to pay him anything you want and it wouldn't be outlandish.

And just winning a cup has no precedent in resulting a big contract if there's not also a solid sample of great play behind it too. You just don't get big contracts because you came in and won the cup. It doesn't happen.

You can repeat "He won the cup!" however many times you want. Cup wins as an isolated factor doesn't drive contracts nearly as much as you think. Cup winners with small sample sizes in the NHL take short contracts every single time. It's not because they are all reasonable guys. It's because it's the best option they have.

Find me one player who came in just before a cup win and got a big contract. Just one.

Matthews signed an unheard of 5 year 11.6 mil aav with a career high 63 points. Let's not talk about "what they HAVE done" because at the time of signing, none of our 3 had done anything to warrant being paid market setting contracts based off of what they HAD done.

Again, that's not how contracts work. Primary thing that costs you, PPG in your ELC. Biggest two factors afterwards, goalscoring and position.

If you go by that, Matthews is close to what he got. Matt Cane's model got him hired by an NHL team, and he predicted a huge contract for Matthews. Evolving-Wild's model has had crazy predictive value, and it had Matthews sky high as well. That's from people who actually study in depth what determines what kind of contracts players get.

You're arguing from a position of what you think should result in big contracts, not what actually does.

And before you do the typical "I don't like what they are saying so I'm just going to attack the source..." They are chucking around comparable and performances based off of numbers and stats.

I have never done that even once while on this site.

I have listened to that interview. They do the same thing you do. Instead of researching what actually drives contract value, they go by what they think should matter. And what they think should matter just happen to fit their exact narrative, nothing else is taken into account.

PS. I have no idea why we are even diving into the misery that is having slightly overpaid superstars on this team, a year after the fact. It's the past. Just be happy we no longer have a management team that gives out twice as big overpayments for depth players.

 

[Dreakmur]

Dubas just isn't allowed to get any credit from some fans.

I give him the credit I think he deserves. When he signed Nylander, I thought it should have been either less money or longer term. It was never a terrible contract, but it was mildly bad.

The biggest detriment it has was setting the table for the next guys to know they can bully Dubas.

 

[ACC1224]

And just winning a cup has no precedent in resulting a big contract if there's not also a solid sample of great play behind it too. You just don't get big contracts because you came in and won the cup. It doesn't happen.

You can repeat "He won the cup!" however many times you want. Cup wins as an isolated factor doesn't drive contracts nearly as much as you think. Cup winners with small sample sizes in the NHL take short contracts every single time. It's not because they are all reasonable guys. It's because it's the best option they have.

Find me one player who came in just before a cup win and got a big contract. Just one.


Again, that's not how contracts work. Primary thing that costs you, PPG in your ELC. Biggest two factors afterwards, goalscoring and position.

If you go by that, Matthews is close to what he got. Matt Cane's model got him hired by an NHL team, and he predicted a huge contract for Matthews. Evolving-Wild's model has had crazy predictive value, and it had Matthews sky high as well. That's from people who actually study in depth what determines what kind of contracts players get.

You're arguing from a position of what you think should result in big contracts, not what actually does.


I have never done that even once while on this site.

I have listened to that interview. They do the same thing you do. Instead of researching what actually drives contract value, they go by what they think should matter.

PS. I have no idea why we are even diving into the misery that is having slightly overpaid superstars on this team, a year after the fact. It's the past. Just be happy we no longer have a management team that gives out twice as big overpayments for depth players.

Although that remains to be seen, we hope that's the case.

 

[BlueForever75]

Nylander is a steal at his contract as I predicted when signed.

He will score 30+ goals this year and 70+ pts. 7 million for that is a steal in today's NHL. And he's still young and can improve in the next couple of years. This season will do wonders for his career.

 

[MyBudJT]

Nylander is a steal at his contract as I predicted when signed.

He will score 30+ goals this year and 70+ pts. 7 million for that is a steal in today's NHL. And he's still young and can improve in the next couple of years. This season will do wonders for his career.

See, its things like this that is a little over the top.

30G 70P is certainly good value for 7M, but not a steal by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

They won the damn cup.

They had more of an argument to demand 5 years at 11.6 than 63 point Matthews...lol.

Unless you weigh the importance of a Calder trophy over a Stanley Cup...

Good god, I wouldn't be surprised here if you did.

Paying players for what they've ALREADY done vs. what you EXPECT them to do going FORWARD is a poor strategy. It's those contracts - the ones paid for past performance - are the ones that look horrible in time.

I'd much rather the team I cheer for pay for future production, rather than past production.

That said, I had hoped Dubas would end up getting the players for less....but I'm happy to have them at this number than perhaps not at all.

 

[saltming]

He WON THE CUP.

The battle is over. You could give him Price money at that point.

They already won.

How many goals did he score?

 

[saltming]

IMO, Nylander isn't a goalie.

Do you have a link?