Tribute William Nylander Discussion Thread: Ya Gotta Be Blessed Edition

[Nithoniniel]

Perhaps I misunderstood your post.
I don't think anyone dislikes him because he had to move the contract. I don't think it's unreasonable to dislike how he moved the contract.

Anyway, off topic for this thread.
I didn't see much of the last few games but I have no issue with the way Nylander is currently playing.

Yeah, I can see why you can argue the cost. I have a couple counter-arguments there, but that's something that is worth discussing and is on Dubas. I was mainly addressing actually blaming Dubas for having to move Marleau to begin with.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[18leafsfan18]

They won the damn cup.

They had more of an argument to demand 5 years at 11.6 than 63 point Matthews...lol.

Unless you weigh the importance of a Calder trophy over a Stanley Cup?..

Good god, I wouldn't be surprised here if you did.

You make absolutely no sense.

Players go into a contract discussion using their career achievements.

Yes he won a stanley cup, but he had 32 games under his belt.

He just didn't have any leverage to demand Price Money. If he did, then he would have got price money.

I also gave you another example of a goalie that did the same exact thing in Murry.

Again, when a team wins the cup it's not like they are exempt from the cap.

Binnington decided to bet on himself and sign a bridge deal, why do you think he would do that ? (It was to raise his value, so he could eventually get "Price Money").

 

[Mitch nylander]

Some people here deserve John Ferguson JR. and the 06 Leafs...
So much pessimism and outrageous thoughts.

What Dubas has done with the team has been fantastic. Though it may not be perfect, he has been very good. We've drafted very well under him. He's picked up two legit top 4 defencemen without trading Sandin, Liljegren or even young guys like Kapanen, Johnsson, Nylander.
He has successfully brought in people like Mikheyev from overseas.

And those who really believe that Nylander's contract is overpaid are out to lunch. Look at his comparables. Clayton Keller, making slightly more than Nylander. And he only has 32 points in 50 games. How about Timo Meier, only 31 points, and he's only making 900k less. Kevin Hayes making more than Nylander and has been abysmal. We can make tons of comparisons on why Nylander is rightfully paid.

To keep the thread on track. I believe Nylander has been fantastic this season. Creating numerous chances and has been an absolute puck hound. Not only has he been an excellent playmaker, but he is also scoring too.

 

[stickty111]

This is something very small, but thats a player who was clearly frustrated how that game went. It really shows he cares. Now he always cared, but it's nice to see clip like that where he is not happy.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I give him the credit I think he deserves. When he signed Nylander, I thought it should have been either less money or longer term. It was never a terrible contract, but it was mildly bad.

The biggest detriment it has was setting the table for the next guys to know they can bully Dubas.

How does Nylander making 6.9 correlate to Mattehews making 11.6 and Marner making 10.9 ?

Again, they all came very close to comparables.

Nylander taking 6.9 was just close to his comparables. Simple as that.

Top 10 Entry Level players G/GM & P/GM:

Top 10 entry-level players of the salary cap era

Player	G/GM	P/GM
Ovi	0.67	1.27
Crosby	0.46	1.38
Malkin	0.48	1.26
McDavid	0.42	1.22
Stamkos	0.49	0.95
Backstrom	0.28	1.05
Matthews	0.52	0.97
Kane	0.31	0.94
Marner	0.28	0.93
Rantanen	0.33	0.87

[COLGROUP][COL][/COL] [COL][/COL] [/COLGROUP]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Pretty Elite Territory IMO. That's why those 2 got paid.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Some people here deserve John Ferguson JR. and the 06 leafs...
So much pessimism and outrageous thoughts.

What Dubas has done with the team all though may not be perfect has been very good. We've drafted very well under him. He picked up two legit top 4 defenceman without trading Sandin, Liljegren or even young guys like Kapanen, Johnsson, Nylander.
He has successfully brought in people like Mikheyev from overseas.

And those who really believe that Nylander contract is overpaid are out to lunch. Look at his comparable. Clayton Keller, making slightly more then Nylander. And he only has 32 points in 50 games. How about Timo Meier, only 31 points, and he's only making 900k less. Kevin Hayes making more then Nylander and has been abysmal. We can make tons of comparisons on why Nylander is rightfully paid.

To keep the thread on track. I believe Nylander has been fantastic this season. Creating numerous chances and has been an absolute puck hound. Not only has he been an excellent playmaker, he is scoring too.

At the rate Nylander is scoring goal it's not out of the question that he can get at least 30 this season.

Also since you mentioned Kevin Hayes his career high for points in a season is 49. Nyander has had 61 points in a season 2x before and Hayes is contract is at $7.14 million, where as Nylander is $6.9 million.

 

[Menzinger]

Here's the thing with Nylander. Does the increased point pace really indicate a significant change in his play? To some degree, it certainly does. He's doing even better with Tavares than he did with Matthews, and that was a top duo for years. But a large part of that increase comes from the PP, where he's scoring at a three times higher pace for second best on the team, top 10 in the league. Is that a huge step forward for him? Well, we are talking about a player who led the league in primary points relative to ice time in his rookie season. He was simply not used that way since then.

People talk about improved hustle, and I agree that it's been there. He looks more confident, and when he's confident he has that puck hound mentality that almost all the great players have. However, that doesn't really impact the PP where he's seen a large part of the increase. There's also the net front presence, where he's been terrific this season. However, he went to the net a lot even in last years wasted season. There's just a huge difference between arriving there as an option for Tavares instead of Marleau.

So while I do think that he's better now than ever, I don't think it's a significant change in him personally. We've just paid him what teams usually pay one of their top offense drivers, and then put him in a secondary role.

The thing about opportunity is that if you give it to one player, you take it away from another. Here's where that is still a good thing. Getting bang for buck matters. So putting Nylander in that spot not only helps our on-ice results, but we also get more out of him for our cap dollars. PP production costs. Let's say that Mikheyev had gotten a full season (let's ignore the injury for this example) at that spot. He might add 20 more points, and become millions more expensive against the cap. By using Nylander there, we get the most out of his $7M while making our depth and support pieces cheaper.

This is how we should have used him even last season. Who cares about who deserves what? The only thing that matters is what's best for the team, and we let having him earn it overshadow that.

Spot on.

I think there definitely some more noticeable technical changes in hos game - his shooting accuracy and shot selection seem mich better. Thre has not however been any radical shifts in his playing style.

Having a coach who 1) trusts him 2) ia actually willing to use him like him like a star point producer (ie 1st pp uaage) certainly has helped things along too

 

[MyBudJT]

Spot on.

I think there definitely some more noticeable technical changes in hos game - his shooting accuracy and shot selection seem mich better. Thre has not however been any radical shifts in his playing style.

Having a coach who 1) trusts him 2) ia actually willing to use him like him like a star point producer (ie 1st pp uaage) certainly has helped things along too

Nobody suggested a radical shift in his game was needed.

The biggest difference with Nylander is that he's more consistently putting in a good effort. He's always had the skill, it was the will that people questioned...

 

[Menzinger]

Paying players for what they've ALREADY done vs. what you EXPECT them to do going FORWARD is a poor strategy. It's those contracts - the ones paid for past performance - are the ones that look horrible in time.

I'd much rather the team I cheer for pay for future production, rather than past production.

That said, I had hoped Dubas would end up getting the players for less....but I'm happy to have them at this number than perhaps not at all.

Uaing contracts as rewards is how you end up giving guys like Seabrook one of the worst contracts in the league.

No thanks.

Not to mention theres literally nothing historically unique about Nylanders contract. Its well in the line of a road range of comparables. The fact people are still trying to debate this is bannans imo

 

[Menzinger]

Nobody suggested a radical shift in his game was needed.

The biggest difference with Nylander is that he's more consistently putting in a good effort. He's always had the skill, it was the will that people questioned...

Our eyes must be showing us different things

 

[MyBudJT]

Our eyes must be showing us different things

Feel free to show me the posts that suggested Nylander needed a radical change.

 

[Menzinger]

Feel free to show me the posts that suggested Nylander needed a radical change.

My post was referring to the suggestion that Nylander lacked considerable consistency in his game in the past

 

[ACC1224]

Nobody suggested a radical shift in his game was needed.

The biggest difference with Nylander is that he's more consistently putting in a good effort. He's always had the skill, it was the will that people questioned...

That's all it's ever been about.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Imagine thinking his contract was a massive overpay?

Not sure many were calling it a massive overpay. I think some thought maybe it was $300 - 500 k too much and would have preferred a longer term (i.e., 8 years).

 

[MyBudJT]

My post was referring to the suggestion that Nylander lacked considerable consistency in his game in the past

Oh, well thats not what I said. Last season, Nylander's effort was consistent... consistently poor.... Its a thing of the past though, he's been playing better this season. Like most other hockey players, there are still ups and downs, but he's having ups much more consistently this season.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Uaing contracts as rewards is how you end up giving guys like Seabrook one of the worst contracts in the league.

No thanks.

Not to mention theres literally nothing historically unique about Nylanders contract. Its well in the line of a road range of comparables. The fa t people are still trying to debate this is bannans imo

Quite rude of you to think Nylander detractors are overweight

 

[MyBudJT]

Not sure many were calling it a massive overpay. I think some thought maybe it was $300 - 500 k too much and would have preferred a longer term (i.e., 8 years).

I'll still call it an overpayment - based on what his peers got. His best comparable was Ehlers who signed for 1M less for 1 year less.

That said, I'm not calling it a BAD contract.

These are two different things.

 

[ruaware41]

I have noticed that McDavid has worked considerably on his finish in close. We all said the one area of his game that isn't generational is his finish, which isn't an insult but just a compliment to how good the rest of his game is. Since entering the league his finishing touch on break aways or partial breakways has only increased which obviously helps him.

I think Nylander if he worked some magic and specific focus on his finishing in tight and in high danger shooting areas would be an even more dynamic player than he already is. I bet this season he's near the top for high danger area shots for but probably has a high danger shots goal scoring % lower than other elite players. A lot of times it seems like he comes very close to beating goalies with some great looks. Especially on the powerplay it always seems like he's on the verge of going on a huge goal scoring streak. He's very very darn good at being able to get in positions and play so that he has the puck on his stick and a relatively clear shot to the net which is something he deserves credit for. His shot is already pretty good and he has the tools but a few tweaks here and there and I think he can score 40 consistently in this league.

 

[weems]

Oh, well thats not what I said. Last season, Nylander's effort was consistent... consistently poor.... Its a thing of the past though, he's been playing better this season. Like most other hockey players, there are still ups and downs, but he's having ups much more consistently this season.

He's also being put in a much better position to succeed.

 

[saltming]

Oh, well thats not what I said. Last season, Nylander's effort was consistent... consistently poor.... Its a thing of the past though, he's been playing better this season. Like most other hockey players, there are still ups and downs, but he's having ups much more consistently this season.

Are you equating point production to consistency?

 

[MyBudJT]

Are you equating point production to consistency?

Nope, but there is a good correlation.

 

[weems]

Nope, but there is a good correlation.

Would you say playing on the #1 PP unit with all the other best players on the team is good for his overall production?

 

[MyBudJT]

He's also being put in a much better position to succeed.

fair point, I guess. Buts Hyman was put in a lesser position to succeed and was much better. Its mostly a poor excuse IMO. He wasn't put into a position to succeed because he play wasn't deserving of it...

 

[MyBudJT]

Would you say playing on the #1 PP unit with all the other best players on the team is good for his overall production?

Sure. But its an excuse. Hyman doesn't need #1PP units to produce.