Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[Crysis]

Like McCown just said...if you bring in Stamkos during his prime you are wasting 3/4 years(MINIMUM) with him during a rebuild....

The fact is it doesn't really make sense to bring in a superstar in their prime going into what, year three of a rebuild? lol...

If we were going into year six and Nylander/Marner/Kapanen/Brown and our 2016 1st(s) were already in the league a few seasons and were gaining steam, then it would make sense to bring in a Stamkos.

That's just a fact. Not my opinion, but a fact. If he wants to win a cup in the next 3/4 years, ie. while he's in his prime, he won't be doing it here.

Timing is everything, and the timing just doesn't work. What would be IDEAL is if he signs somewhere else for 3 years/30 million and we sign him after that. Him being here the next 3 seasons does nothing but push us from a top 8 pick to a top 15 pick. He does nothing else for us.

I'd rather keep collecting top 8 picks and sign him later on. Of course, realistically he will sign long term but one can always hope.

 

[Wils65]

Don't get me wrong, Stammer is unreal.

Just not sure if I'd feel comfortable giving a max contract to the guy. Not sure if that fits into our rebuild.

 

[Daisy Jane]

now that we have zero uuuggglly contracts on the books - I'm okay with giving Stamkos a blank cheque. (especially if they make the AAV manageable)

 

[Stephen]

Like McCown just said...if you bring in Stamkos during his prime you are wasting 3/4 years(MINIMUM) with him during a rebuild....

The fact is it doesn't really make sense to bring in a superstar in their prime going into what, year three of a rebuild? lol...

If we were going into year six and Nylander/Marner/Kapanen/Brown and our 2016 1st(s) were already in the league a few seasons and were gaining steam, then it would make sense to bring in a Stamkos.

That's just a fact. Not my opinion, but a fact. If he wants to win a cup in the next 3/4 years, ie. while he's in his prime, he won't be doing it here.

Timing is everything, and the timing just doesn't work. What would be IDEAL is if he signs somewhere else for 3 years/30 million and we sign him after that. Him being here the next 3 seasons does nothing but push us from a top 8 pick to a top 15 pick. He does nothing else for us.

I'd rather keep collecting top 8 picks and sign him later on. Of course, realistically he will sign long term but one can always hope.

How is it a fact that te rebuild takes 3-4 more years? Between having some serious prospects coming up and basically a blank slate for cap this rebuild could get very interesting with the right decisions made. The rebuild didn't start when they declared it in the media. They've been rebuilding since the Rielly pick.

 

[Crysis]

now that we have zero uuuggglly contracts on the books - I'm okay with giving Stamkos a blank cheque. (especially if they make the AAV manageable)

So his affect on pushing us out of a top 8-10 draft spot means nothing?? He's not going to lead us to a cup during year 3-6 of a rebuild....all he will do is ruin our draft slot.

 

[Crysis]

How is it a fact that te rebuild takes 3-4 more years? Between having some serious prospects coming up and basically a blank slate for cap this rebuild could get very interesting with the right decisions made. The rebuild didn't start when they declared it in the media. They've been rebuilding since the Rielly pick.

LOL.
This team has no:

Defense
Proven goaltending(ie a full season)
Offense

All we have is coaching. Coaching and $1.80 will get you a medium coffee at Timmies.

 

[Apotheosis]

How is it a fact that te rebuild takes 3-4 more years? Between having some serious prospects coming up and basically a blank slate for cap this rebuild could get very interesting with the right decisions made. The rebuild didn't start when they declared it in the media. They've been rebuilding since the Rielly pick.

Because it will.

1. Not every prospect will hit their respective ceilings/develop into an NHL player. That's why you continue drafting (GIVE HUNTER THE MOST AMOUNT OF PICKS POSSIBLE) and stock the prospect pool with as many players as possible to minimize the bust - Stud ratio.

2. Clearing out the cap space that was from a failed era. It's started, and won't be done until Bozak and Lupul are gone as well.

3. Developmental years in the actual NHL for said prospects.

As for our team in general; we have a potential number 1 D, but need a partner for him. No bonafide franchise goaltender, no defensive depth, and the jury is out on who is going to be playing where in the top 6.

 

[Stephen]

Where did Tampa Bay finish in 2013?

 

[Pookie]

So his affect on pushing us out of a top 8-10 draft spot means nothing?? He's not going to lead us to a cup during year 3-6 of a rebuild....all he will do is ruin our draft slot.

Apparently not

Reminds me of someone who just got out of debt who decides that the next best thing to do is run up a massive credit card charge on products they don't need at this point in their life.

Fun.

Bad contract out so its ok to have one now.

Sheesh

 

[Daisy Jane]

So his affect on pushing us out of a top 8-10 draft spot means nothing?? He's not going to lead us to a cup during year 3-6 of a rebuild....all he will do is ruin our draft slot.

my main concern were the following

1: we already had an ugly contract, adding Stamkos (and if he didn't work out) was a eww. gross.

2: Whom he'd play with. (still a concern) - extremely lessened due to today's actions.


honestly, as i've always said - where we draft isn't a concern for me, unless you don't trust your scouting staff. Find Larkins and Karlssons (who are studs) - it doesn't have to be 1-2-3-, 1-2-3- all the time. (especially with how the lottery is).

higher cap dollars for when we suck - manageable/tradeable dollars when we don't (and he does - worst case scenario).

and with that being said. our team literally consists of the following. (not counting RFAs who need to be qualified)

Lupul
Bozak
Bernier
JVR
Leo
Jake


that's it. that's the team.

i would bet the farm that the organization isn't going to shove all the rookies and be all "here you go." we need to make the cap-floor, as well as - we've already (no pun intended) Hunter/Gathered a TONNE of picks (last/this and already starting next year). eventually some of those assets will have to be moved, and we have to trend upwards.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Apparently not

Reminds me of someone who just got out of debt who decides that the next best thing to do is run up a massive credit card charge on products they don't need at this point in their life.

Fun.

Bad contract out so its ok to have one now.

Sheesh

so. who exactly do you think is going to play next year?

 

[Pookie]

so. who exactly do you think is going to play next year?

How can anyone know that?

But what we can judge is the merit of the contract relative to the needs of the team.

And unless we start moving players out for win now players, this would be a waste that would bite us.

Maybe they will accelerate. But I don't think that's wise. Hasn't worked. Ever. Here.

 

[Advanced stats]

LOL.
This team has no:

Defense
Proven goaltending(ie a full season)
Offense

All we have is coaching. Coaching and $1.80 will get you a medium coffee at Timmies.

Do you actually follow the leafs?

JVR-Stamkos-Marner
Laine-Kadri-Nylander

Deadly top 6 in 2 years
Bottom 6 is even easier to make a competitive lineup

Reilly-Juolevi(Pitts pick traded up)
Gardiner-Zaitsev
(take your pick of anyone to put in the bottom pairing)

Potentially Reimer...goalies are the least valueable asset to trade for.


To say that this team will still be rebuilding for 3-6 years is crazy..

this year bottom feeder, next year 20-25th, 2017-18 bubble playoff team.

 

[Crysis]

Do you actually follow the leafs?

JVR-Stamkos-Marner
Laine-Kadri-Nylander

Deadly top 6 in 2 years
Bottom 6 is even easier to make a competitive lineup

Reilly-Juolevi(Pitts pick traded up)
Gardiner-Zaitsev
(take your pick of anyone to put in the bottom pairing)

Potentially Reimer...goalies are the least valueable asset to trade for.


To say that this team will still be rebuilding for 3-6 years is crazy..

this year bottom feeder, next year 20-25th, 2017-18 bubble playoff team.

Okay so half of that lineup hasn't played a single game in the league....you are assuming they will all be studs right off the bat....lol.

I never said we wouldn't be gaining steam over that time( I said they wouldn't be winning any cups), but yes, we VERY LIKELY have 3+ more reasons of no playoffs on the way. 99% of our picks will need time not only in junior/AHL but also to get used to the NHL level. It takes time, and management has already stated they won't rush guys.

 

[Pookie]

Okay so half of that lineup hasn't played a single game in the league....you are assuming they will all be studs right off the bat....lol.

I never said we wouldn't be gaining steam over that time, but yes, we VERY LIKELY have 3+ more reasons of no playoffs on the way. 99% of our picks will need time not only in junior/AHL but also to get used to the NHL level. It takes time, and management has already stated they won't rush guys.

Just shake your head and move on.

I found having a wine cellar helps. Donating money to the Guinness brewery is another coping strategy.

 

[WillNytheSwedishGuy]

How can anyone know that?

But what we can judge is the merit of the contract relative to the needs of the team.

And unless we start moving players out for win now players, this would be a waste that would bite us.

Maybe they will accelerate. But I don't think that's wise. Hasn't worked. Ever. Here.

Think everyone agrees that long term Phaneuf needed to go, but having him (or Stamkos) on the team in the short term is not a waste. There is a need for a veteran group of players that can insulate the young players and allow them to develop properly.

Its not accelerating anything. Building an NHL team that is at least semi-competitive is a requirement for effective development. Trading nearly every proven NHL talent we have and then throwing our prospects into the deep end is not an ideal situation.

Now, that could be avoided using strategies that do not include offering Stamkos big money, but the general idea makes sense.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How can anyone know that?

But what we can judge is the merit of the contract relative to the needs of the team.

And unless we start moving players out for win now players, this would be a waste that would bite us.

Maybe they will accelerate. But I don't think that's wise. Hasn't worked. Ever. Here.

How can you still be going on with that narrative after the trade today? We have hardly any decent players on this team, how are we supposed to accelerate?

Stick a fork in it, you're narrative is done dude.

 

[Crysis]

How can you still be going on with that narrative after the trade today? We have hardly any decent players on this team, how are we supposed to accelerate?

Stick a fork in it, you're narrative is done dude.

I don't think you understood the point he was making. He was saying not to...I give up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Do you actually follow the leafs?

JVR-Stamkos-Marner
Laine-Kadri-Nylander

Deadly top 6 in 2 years
Bottom 6 is even easier to make a competitive lineup

Reilly-Juolevi(Pitts pick traded up)
Gardiner-Zaitsev
(take your pick of anyone to put in the bottom pairing)

Potentially Reimer...goalies are the least valueable asset to trade for.


To say that this team will still be rebuilding for 3-6 years is crazy..

this year bottom feeder, next year 20-25th, 2017-18 bubble playoff team.

That might be a bit optimistic (actually it's very optimistic) but even if it isn't, the rebuild is hardly over when wer're a bubble team. The rebuild is over when we're a contender with well stocked cupboards because we didn't sacrifice the future for the past - probably at least another 5 years.

 

[Mess]

Last week I was trying to make a case of trying to deal Phaneuf to TB for Stamkos to free up the cap space for the Leafs and TB getting something for Stammer instead of losing him for nothing.

Today's trade has opened the opportunity even more to make Stamkos signing make sense cap wise by the offsetting contracts.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think you understood the point he was making. He was saying not to...I give up.

Oh don't worry, I know what he's saying. I'm making the point that worrying about the impossible is just dumb. And trading Phaneuf is the opposite of what we'd be doing if accelerating the rebuild was even a remote possibility.

 

[namttebih]

Like McCown just said...if you bring in Stamkos during his prime you are wasting 3/4 years(MINIMUM) with him during a rebuild....

The fact is it doesn't really make sense to bring in a superstar in their prime going into what, year three of a rebuild? lol...

If we were going into year six and Nylander/Marner/Kapanen/Brown and our 2016 1st(s) were already in the league a few seasons and were gaining steam, then it would make sense to bring in a Stamkos.

That's just a fact. Not my opinion, but a fact. If he wants to win a cup in the next 3/4 years, ie. while he's in his prime, he won't be doing it here.

Timing is everything, and the timing just doesn't work. What would be IDEAL is if he signs somewhere else for 3 years/30 million and we sign him after that. Him being here the next 3 seasons does nothing but push us from a top 8 pick to a top 15 pick. He does nothing else for us.

I'd rather keep collecting top 8 picks and sign him later on. Of course, realistically he will sign long term but one can always hope.

How valuable is Hossa to CHI?

He went to the Blackhawks at 29 coming off of a 40 goal season and became a leader to the young elite forward corps. In 3/4 years Stammer will also be 29 and one would hope that he could be to Matthews/Nylander/Marner what Hossa was to Kane/Toews

 

[Pookie]

Last week I was trying to make a case of trying to deal Phaneuf to TB for Stamkos to free up the cap space for the Leafs and TB getting something for Stammer instead of losing him for nothing.

Today's trade has opened the opportunity even more to make Stamkos signing make sense cap wise by the offsetting contracts.

Yes.

It also says quite clearly to Stamkos that this is about as far away from a cup contender as you can get.

Provided of course, they don't take a short cut and start adding similar aged players.

All depends if he wants to be a one man wolf pack.

 

[Crysis]

Think everyone agrees that long term Phaneuf needed to go, but having him (or Stamkos) on the team in the short term is not a waste. There is a need for a veteran group of players that can insulate the young players and allow them to develop properly.

Its not accelerating anything. Building an NHL team that is at least semi-competitive is a requirement for effective development. Trading nearly every proven NHL talent we have and then throwing our prospects into the deep end is not an ideal situation.

Now, that could be avoided using strategies that do not include offering Stamkos big money, but the general idea makes sense.

We have PLENTY of over paid veteran players as is to insulate the young guys, Lupul, Bozak, etc. Even though Bozie has been good this year obv.

Also, you can bring in guys as place holders that DON'T put you out of a top 10 draft spot. Stamkos likely does that. And I think Babcock being here makes tanking with a young lineup less of a big deal. He will be able to keep their heads up regardless until they get experience and start winning.

I'm fully on board this 3 year model:

2016/2017: MUCH more youth in the lineup(4/5 players) and bring in a few veteran plugs to fill the gaps and provide leadership. Top 10 pick.

2017/2018: Add any youth to the mix who appear ready, but also bring in veteran plugs as needed. Top 10 pick again.

2018/2019: Hit the UFA market for a big name player or two to add to the stable of young talent who have a year or two experience now. Sprinkle in youth or a veteran plug if needed. Compete for playoffs.

 

[Pookie]

How can you still be going on with that narrative after the trade today? We have hardly any decent players on this team, how are we supposed to accelerate?

Stick a fork in it, you're narrative is done dude.

Sigh

Yes the roster is barren. Not the point is it though? The point is what do the they do now?

You think they will add Stamkos and do nothing else but wait for 5 years? You think Stamkos would be cool with toiling at the bottom of the league through his prime cup winning years?

The fork is just getting ready Gary. The meal is far from being done.