Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[Mess]

Yes.

It also says quite clearly to Stamkos that this is about as far away from a cup contender as you can get.

Provided of course, they don't take a short cut and start adding similar aged players.

All depends if he wants to be a one man wolf pack.

Toronto can now also dangle the prestigious Captaincy of the storied franchise in their centennial year to entice the signing.

"Come lead your favourite hometown team and join other great Leaf captains".

 

[Crysis]

How valuable is Hossa to CHI?

He went to the Blackhawks at 29 coming off of a 40 goal season and became a leader to the young elite forward corps. In 3/4 years Stammer will also be 29 and one would hope that he could be to Matthews/Nylander/Marner what Hossa was to Kane/Toews

And I support bringing him in at that point, as I stated.

 

[WillNytheSwedishGuy]

We have PLENTY of over paid veteran players as is to insulate the young guys, Lupul, Bozak, etc. Even though Bozie has been good this year obv.

Also, you can bring in guys as place holders that DON'T put you out of a top 10 draft spot. Stamkos likely does that. And I think Babcock being here makes tanking with a young lineup less of a big deal. He will be able to keep their heads up regardless until they get experience and start winning.

I'm fully on board this 3 year model:

2016/2017: MUCH more youth in the lineup(4/5 players) and bring in a few veteran plugs to fill the gaps and provide leadership. Top 10 pick.

2017/2018: Add any youth to the mix who appear ready, but also bring in veteran plugs as needed. Top 10 pick again.

2018/2019: Hit the UFA market for a big name player or two to add to the stable of young talent who have a year or two experience now. Sprinkle in youth or a veteran plug if needed. Compete for playoffs.

Its not good enough to have players that are simply veterans. They need to be good enough to reduce some of the pressure to produce, which in this market, will be immense. Bozak and Lupul do not accomplish this. Someone of Stamkos' quality might.

Just last week Shanahan did an interview with PTS explaining that he does not fixate on draft position because he trusts that the scouting department he has built will be able to unearth gems wherever the team drafts. That doesn't suggest to me that 'pushing the team out of a top 10 spot' is really on this management team's radar. They aren't trying to make the playoffs, nor are they proceeding with some defined draft position in mind.

 

[LeafsMonster]

I like joking around about getting stamkos, but even then thats only one part of a team. Tampa has some great forward and defense players in addition to stamkos and they haven't been crazy good. Thats a lot of money on one player. And stamkos is great, but the one thing I hate about him is he disappears so frequently. I would much rather a team spend money on a bunch of really good guys and have a stable team then spend lots on a superstar.

And a good point was made in this thread, we are just in the beginning of a real rebuild, bringinf him screws with our draft positions and wastes his prime years. Similar to the kessel situation. We had kessel and pretty much a bunch of pretty okay guys, and consistently finished 9th or 10th.

We got a lot of talent in our farm right now its going to be a while before we see what we really have. Until then, imo it doesnt make sense to add such a big piece right now.

 

[Albi34]

I see a lot of argument that signing stamkos is bad for the re-build.
How can signing a top 5 goal scorer in he world for literally no assets, be bad for a rebuild? He's in his mid 20's...we aren't talking about Iginla here.
And believe it or not the leafs probably WOULD be ready to compete in a few years if we had stamkos.
Doesn't stamkos nylander kadri down the middle sound so much better than nylander kadri holland?
So what if he pushes the leafs outside of a high draft spot? What kind of argument is that? You draft to get players you pray are as good as stamkos

 

[Stephen]

Even if Stamkos doesn't work out as a free agent signing, it looks like you can still flip him for other things, given the return of junk like Kessel, Phaneuf, Clarkson. And by no means do I think Stamkos will be like them.

 

[Crysis]

Its not good enough to have players that are simply veterans. They need to be good enough to reduce some of the pressure to produce, which in this market, will be immense. Bozak and Lupul do not accomplish this. Someone of Stamkos' quality might.

Just last week Shanahan did an interview with PTS explaining that he does not fixate on draft position because he trusts that the scouting department he has built will be able to unearth gems wherever the team drafts. That doesn't suggest to me that 'pushing the team out of a top 10 spot' is really on this management team's radar. They aren't trying to make the playoffs, nor are they proceeding with some defined draft position in mind.

No, they don't. Great coaching helps to mitigate the damage a lost season has on youth. And, again, no, the pressure isn't intense at all right now, 95% if the fan base is fully on board the rebuild, and the ratings are down big time, people are apathetic at this point. They will start caring again when they compete for the playoffs.

Of course he's gonna say that. But if you asked him if he would rather have a top 5 or a top 15 pick which is he picking? Shanny is going the OPPOSITE route of every other GM/President, whatever, has done in recent decades. He has learned from their mistakes, he knows you need top end talent and you increase your odds of getting it by drafting earlier in EACH round. If he said that they need to draft earlier to have success it's a slight to Mark Hunter.

 

[Menzinger]

The Leas team may be more competitive than some think (and J say this as a fan of a full rebuild via the draft).

Nylander, Brown and maybe Marner on the team to start the season, with Kapanen and Johnson making it by season's end will be a huge injection of much needed skill into Babcock's system.

 

[Crysis]

Even if Stamkos doesn't work out as a free agent signing, it looks like you can still flip him for other things, given the return of junk like Kessel, Phaneuf, Clarkson. And by no means do I think Stamkos will be like them.

No. He will have a NTC, he's a 60 goal scorer. They get NTC = fact.

He has one now and will continue to have one.

 

[Crysis]

I see a lot of argument that signing stamkos is bad for the re-build.
How can signing a top 5 goal scorer in he world for literally no assets, be bad for a rebuild? He's in his mid 20's...we aren't talking about Iginla here.
And believe it or not the leafs probably WOULD be ready to compete in a few years if we had stamkos.
Doesn't stamkos nylander kadri down the middle sound so much better than nylander kadri holland?
So what if he pushes the leafs outside of a high draft spot? What kind of argument is that? You draft to get players you pray are as good as stamkos

It's called putting the cart before the horse.
In three years if Stamkos was available it would be a DREAM to add him to our young, talented core, who already have experience in the league and are ready to compete.

 

[Menzinger]

No. He will have a NTC, he's a 60 goal scorer. They get NTC = fact.

He has one now and will continue to have one.

Yep, I expect his agent will be seeking a full NTC.

 

[WillNytheSwedishGuy]

No, they don't. Great coaching helps to mitigate the damage a lost season has on youth. And, again, no, the pressure isn't intense at all right now, 95% if the fan base is fully on board the rebuild, and the ratings are down big time, people are apathetic at this point. They will start caring again when they compete for the playoffs.

Of course he's gonna say that. But if you asked him if he would rather have a top 5 or a top 15 pick which is he picking? Shanny is going the OPPOSITE route of every other GM/President, whatever, has done in recent decades. He has learned from their mistakes, he knows you need top end talent and you increase your odds of getting it by drafting earlier in EACH round. If he said that they need to draft earlier to have success it's a slight to Mark Hunter.

If William Nylander makes the team next year, then goes on a 10 game pointless streak and radio show hosts and message board reactionaries are debating whether he should be sent down again or traded, you may want to revisit your point about apathy.

You don't seem to realize that being on a terrible team isn't good for development. Doesn't matter how much encouragement/quality coaching the young guys receive, playing for a team experiencing a prolonged stay in the league's basement will have an inevitable negative effect. Not to mention that if this team shows close to zero improvement in the standings over the next 3-4 years, Shanny won't likely be the one at the helm when the team gets good. Look at Edmonton. If you have to be awful for the better part of a decade just to build a winner, you aren't a very competent manager.

Shanny's public proclamations may just be positioning, but that doesn't render them disingenuous. Its not simply a choice of where he wants to pick. A less valuable pick likely means the group is a little further along development wise, which is a positive. So there are trade offs. He also mentioned that in the interview.

 

[Crysis]

If William Nylander makes the team next year, then goes on a 10 game pointless streak and radio show hosts and message board reactionaries are debating whether he should be sent down again or traded, you may want to revisit your point about apathy.

You don't seem to realize that being on a terrible team isn't good for development. Doesn't matter how much encouragement/quality coaching the young guys receive, playing for a team experiencing a prolonged stay in the league's basement will have an inevitable negative effect. Not to mention that if this team shows close to zero improvement in the standings over the next 3-4 years, Shanny won't likely be the one at the helm when the team gets good. Look at Edmonton. If you have to be awful for the better part of a decade just to build a winner, you aren't a very competent manager.

Shanny's public proclamations may just be positioning, but that doesn't render them disingenuous. Its not simply a choice of where he wants to pick. A less valuable pick likely means the group is a little further along development wise, which is a positive. So there are trade offs. He also mentioned that in the interview.

None of the young guys are going to be expected to produce a lot right away though. I think they will receive fairly limited ice time with some looks on the PP.

I'd be okay with our young guys putting in 12-15 minutes per night during their rookie seasons. I mean if they aren't playing a tonne how much can they be attacked by the media?

I'm confident in Babcock to use these guys properly and not ruin them.

 

[Stephen]

Steven Stamkos himself wasn't getting much done as a young player in his rookie year, but took a quantum leap in development because they stapled him to a veteran Marty St. Louis.

 

[Pinto]

No. He will have a NTC, he's a 60 goal scorer. They get NTC = fact.

He has one now and will continue to have one.

So did Kessel, Phaneuf and Clarkson.

 

[Peace Frog]

The trading of Phaneuf, is a clear indication to me that Stamkos is coming to Toronto. For those against bringing Stamkos home, well, I just don't know what to say. All I can do is.....

 

[namttebih]

And I support bringing him in at that point, as I stated.

He'll be unobtainable at that point though. If you can fit him in under the cap and he's completely willing to follow through a rebuild with the complete understanding of everything that it entails, why wait?

 

[Stephen]

Remember back in the summer of 2014 when Adam Proteau wrote up that piece about a LeBron style homecoming that Stamkos originally favorited?

It's kind of interesting how the Toronto Maple Leafs are actually poised to be in a position extremely similar to the one the Cleveland Cavaliers found themselves in, in contention for the first overall pick, with crap tons of cap room to land a big fish.

Moving Phaneuf out and before we see what they do with Polak, Bozak, Kadri, Bernier, Reimer, etc, the Leafs have enough money saved from Kessel, Phaneuf and Clarkson to go out and get Stamkos, promote a handful of their kids, and still sprinkle in a few roster upgrades.

 

[saltming]

I'm all for bringing stammer home. 10 mil per scares me. My hope is that this year is residuals from his broken leg and by next year he is 100%. Anything under 10. GM'S are thinking that the street values of players are going to reset since it looks like the cap is leveling off. If we over pay stammer it will hurt us in the long run.

 

[gabeliscious]

lou certainly set himself up to be able to offer whatever it will take to get stamkos to toronto in addition to possibly floating the "c"

 

[TMLegend]

Yes, let's give the "C" to Stammer despite the fact he has no prior affilliation to the Leafs whatsoever and no connections in the dressing room.

Brilliant idea Leafs nation. You've really outdone yourselves this time. It will be a joke if they just give the captaincy to a UFA they just signed.

The sheer stupidity is unbelievable, truly.

 

[Confucius]

Yes, let's give the "C" to Stammer despite the fact he has no prior affilliation to the Leafs whatsoever and no connections in the dressing room.

Brilliant idea Leafs nation. You've really outdone yourselves this time. It will be a joke if they just give the captaincy to a UFA they just signed.

We learned from that other hero, Brian Burke. All Stamkos has to do is bring a radio.

 

[Gallagbi]

Last UFA I remember becoming captain was Chara. Seemed to work out well for the B's.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm all for bringing stammer home. 10 mil per scares me. My hope is that this year is residuals from his broken leg and by next year he is 100%. Anything under 10. GM'S are thinking that the street values of players are going to reset since it looks like the cap is leveling off. If we over pay stammer it will hurt us in the long run.

I agree, don't want to overpay. I wouldn't be surprised if they are seriously thinking about going after him though and that thinking was a factor in this trade.

Yes, let's give the "C" to Stammer despite the fact he has no prior affilliation to the Leafs whatsoever and no connections in the dressing room.

Brilliant idea Leafs nation. You've really outdone yourselves this time. It will be a joke if they just give the captaincy to a UFA they just signed.

Connections in the dressing room. WTF?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Last UFA I remember becoming captain was Chara. Seemed to work out well for the B's.

yeah well, i guess he doesn't count