Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[Stephen]

I agree with you re: Marner and McDavid, but I'd say that it comes with a caveat that some Ontario-born players are Leafs fans at the time of the draft but no longer feel the same way by the time they are 25 or 30. On one hand, Lindros wanted to play *only* for the Leafs when he was 27. On the other hand, I'd wonder how much Spezza still wanted to play for us after years of success in Ottawa, even though he grew up a Leaf fan. Ditto with Shanahan. I don't think Shanny would ever have considered leaving Detroit in his prime, although admittedly he's now returned to the team of his youth. And Cujo was already a hero in Toronto, and LEFT to pursue a cup with Detroit.

I think it'll all depend on the circumstances. Has X player won a cup? Would he be leaving a cup contender? Are the Leafs a contender, or at least a playoff team? Has he married a local girl? Does he want to live on the beaches of California instead, and just come to Toronto in the summers, and then cheer for the Leafs again after retirement?

I get the sense that players like Cammalleri, Stamkos, Seguin and McDavid would be open to coming back here, not just because they're GTA guys but because they have extra ties to the city and organization, still train here, speak fondly about the team, etc.

Other guys come across as much less likely to be willing to do so, Nash, Spezza, Tavares.

 

[Menzinger]

What are you on about now? They used to put him on the point and on the side boards in the past which allowed him to one time off the left face off circle and high slot, but when you stand in front of the net, you're the garbage goal guy. It's hard to take a slap shot when you're standing beside the goalie.

Coopers usage of him has been peculiar to say the least.

I think I'd agree that Stamkos was used poorly last season - then again the Bolt did go to the finals.

 

[Stephen]

Coopers usage of him has been peculiar to say the least.

I think I'd agree that Stamkos was used poorly last season - then again the Bolt did go to the finals.

Everything Cooper touched turned to gold last year so you can't really argue against the overall results, but as things have kind of stalled on them this year, you can point to the Stamkos situation as an area of weakness.

Maybe Yzerman and Cooper are taking a page out of the Scotty Bowman playbook and trying to give Stamkos the Yzerman treatment, but not prioritizing your franchise player (assuming they want to keep him) in contract talks, tinkering and taking this standoff posture doesn't necessarily look like the best choice. We'll see what happens.

 

[Crosscrease14]

Toronto would have to offer about 11 mil/year av to match the after tax take home of Tampa's reported 8.5/yr offer. If Stamkos comes to TO it won't be about the money.

 

[Stephen]

Toronto would have to offer about 11 mil/year av to match the after tax take home of Tampa's reported 8.5/yr offer. If Stamkos comes to TO it won't be about the money.

I doubt the tax situation is as simple as this. If it were the case, Texas, Tennessee and Florida would be UFA havens, but we don't see a lot of evidence of a disproportionate number of high profile free agents going to Nashville, Dallas, Florida and Tampa.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

And if you read the CBA, starting on page 157, you will find this is not permitted and expressly discussed under the topic of circumvention.

Stamkos could have a North American deal. Like the ones he already has but it cannot be arranged by the Leafs or "agents" or "club actors."

It's moot.

I'll give it a read but I'll be surprised if it can't be loop holed.

 

[Ciccio1980]

Does anyone really know the difference in taxes between Florida and Toronto maybe the difference is only 5 %

 

[Bluelines]

LOL...love Lou

Strombone ‏@strombone1 6m6 minutes ago
For the final we are pairing Leo Komarov with futur teammate @RealStamkos91....... I kid I kid #NHLAllStar

 

[BayStreetBully]

I get the sense that players like Cammalleri, Stamkos, Seguin and McDavid would be open to coming back here, not just because they're GTA guys but because they have extra ties to the city and organization, still train here, speak fondly about the team, etc.

Other guys come across as much less likely to be willing to do so, Nash, Spezza, Tavares.

If the Leafs were a perennial playoff team, I think we would have the easiest time attracting most of those players.

All things being equal, I have the feeling Seguin in particular would love to be a Leaf, just because of how fate almost brought him to us. We're also both St. Mike's alumni (though I'm much older than him), and I've heard from mutual teachers how big a Leaf fan he was in high school, as was the entire school. I can't tell with Stamkos and Tavares, although this year made me believe Stamkos wants to keep that option open. I think McDavid would love to be a Leaf as of now, but who knows what happens in the next 7-8 years. I will say though, that it's probably easier to pry him out of Edmonton than it would've been to pry him out of LA.

 

[BayStreetBully]

LOL...love Lou

Strombone ‏@strombone1 6m6 minutes ago
For the final we are pairing Leo Komarov with futur teammate @RealStamkos91....... I kid I kid #NHLAllStar

$50 he "likes" it.

 

[Pookie]

I have no idea whether a guy is willing to give up his only chance in life to make a few extra Million dollars to don the Blue and White.

Who knows.

That said, I wonder how much longer the "lure" of Toronto will be for local players?

Many kids in the GTA aren't Leaf fans. Leafs have been horrible for years and the ticket prices are such that many probably haven't seen a game live. Supporting the Leafs for me wasn't an option, it was a given.

I wonder whether that will be the same when today's kids are NHL ready. Many probably grew up cheering for Crosby and the Pens vs Kessel and the Leafs.

 

[8816 others]

^Even if they aren't fans of the Leafs, the draw would still be to play where you grew up and to have friends/family attend home games.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I have no idea whether a guy is willing to give up his only chance in life to make a few extra Million dollars to don the Blue and White.

Who knows.

That said, I wonder how much longer the "lure" of Toronto will be for local players?

Many kids in the GTA aren't Leaf fans. Leafs have been horrible for years and the ticket prices are such that many probably haven't seen a game live. Supporting the Leafs for me wasn't an option, it was a given.

I wonder whether that will be the same when today's kids are NHL ready. Many probably grew up cheering for Crosby and the Pens vs Kessel and the Leafs.

While it's true the Leafs don't dominate the city like they used to even 15 years ago, and while they've lost some of the youth to the Raptors and Blue Jays... is that true of actual hockey players too? I would've thought that the youth that played hockey would overwhelmingly be Leafs fans? Or are we losing out to other NHL teams? The under-18 crowd can chime in here.

 

[Purity*]

What are you on about now? They used to put him on the point and on the side boards in the past which allowed him to one time off the left face off circle and high slot, but when you stand in front of the net, you're the garbage goal guy. It's hard to take a slap shot when you're standing beside the goalie.

Yeah it's also hard to take a slapshot when you're in a tight-checking playoff game where defenders are closing off your prime scoring areas. LOL you seriously think Cooper would willingly play Stamkos in a way that's not conducive to winning? Give your ****ing head a shake He's a coach in the NHL and you're an internet-"expert"

Everything Cooper touched turned to gold last year so you can't really argue against the overall results, but as things have kind of stalled on them this year, you can point to the Stamkos situation as an area of weakness.

Maybe Yzerman and Cooper are taking a page out of the Scotty Bowman playbook and trying to give Stamkos the Yzerman treatment, but not prioritizing your franchise player (assuming they want to keep him) in contract talks, tinkering and taking this standoff posture doesn't necessarily look like the best choice. We'll see what happens.

Yeah things stalled and they seem to be going perfectly OK in Tampa now. 4th in the East and 9-2 in January and picking up steam. Guess Cooper ain't so bad after all.

At one point are you actually going to start blaming the player himself instead of the coach. You go the earth's end to make up excuses for Stamkos.

 

[Pookie]

^Even if they aren't fans of the Leafs, the draw would still be to play where you grew up and to have friends/family attend home games.

Possibly. Assuming family is still here and you haven't bought them homes in other locations.

For me, the Leaf would be my dream.

But if you told me I could make millions more, play in a warm climate… live by the beach… and golf when I'm not playing? I might take a run at it.

Keep in mind too that while the money is huge, most of these guys have just a high school education. They will most likely never have a chance to make this kind of money again and their window to make it is limited.

So squeezing a 5-7 figures away from the taxman over the course of a career does mean something.

 

[Pookie]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, in addition to declaring he won't waive his no trade clause:

"His agents, Newport Sports, have determined the open market value for Stamkos is somewhere between $11 and $12 million per season."

- Steve Simmons, Jan 30th, 2016

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/30/steven-stamkos-controls-his-own-destiny

$77M over 7 years minimum.

Which means the Lightning would have to come up to $9.6M per season to match that minimum expectation to provide that same amount over 8 seasons.

I see this settling at $10M. Just a hunch.

 

[Stephen]

I have no idea whether a guy is willing to give up his only chance in life to make a few extra Million dollars to don the Blue and White.

Who knows.

That said, I wonder how much longer the "lure" of Toronto will be for local players?

Many kids in the GTA aren't Leaf fans. Leafs have been horrible for years and the ticket prices are such that many probably haven't seen a game live. Supporting the Leafs for me wasn't an option, it was a given.

I wonder whether that will be the same when today's kids are NHL ready. Many probably grew up cheering for Crosby and the Pens vs Kessel and the Leafs.

The thing that makes the Leafs special is their fans aren't bandwagonners. It's a cultural thing and Shanahan covered it well when he talks about families sitting together on Saturdays.

 

[Pookie]

The thing that makes the Leafs special is their fans aren't bandwagonners. It's a cultural thing and Shanahan covered it well when he talks about families sitting together on Saturdays.

Sure. I was in a family like that. I remember how awesome it was when preseason games were actually televised.

Now, with my own kids… they don't have the patience to sit for a full game. In fact, we are likely out skiing on a Saturday night. My son gave up hockey to play soccer 10 months of the year. And is now squeezing in high school football and golf into his calendar. I've got pictures of him with the Zamboni at the ACC and a puck we got in warm up… shaking hands with Marlies' players… now, he doesn't ask about going to a game anymore.

There is just so much more to do now.

Do families really sit in front of the TV and watch the Leafs every Saturday like we used to? I don't know but if someone posted numbers that suggested "no", I wouldn't fall off my chair in shock.

 

[Bluelines]

$50 he "likes" it.

PLEEEEEASE !!! I want to see this.

 

[Stephen]

Sure. I was in a family like that. I remember how awesome it was when preseason games were actually televised.

Now, with my own kids… they don't have the patience to sit for a full game. In fact, we are likely out skiing on a Saturday night. My son gave up hockey to play soccer 10 months of the year. And is now squeezing in high school football and golf into his calendar. I've got pictures of him with the Zamboni at the ACC and a puck we got in warm up… shaking hands with Marlies' players… now, he doesn't ask about going to a game anymore.

There is just so much more to do now.

Do families really sit in front of the TV and watch the Leafs every Saturday like we used to? I don't know but if someone posted numbers that suggested "no", I wouldn't fall off my chair in shock.

Yeah I'm sure that's changing also, but at the end of the day there's some cultural habit that's deeper than mere wins and losses. I suspect when the Leafs are good again we'll see them spike in popularity like the Jays did this past summer.

 

[Apotheosis]

We are talking about Hockey players who is Canadian and been living in Canada since birth. I think taxation is the last of his concern when it comes to choosing where to play. Endorsement deals might play a factor bc playing in a major market usually means sponsors playing more. Say Stamkos gets 2mil from Nike while being in TB, he might get another mil from them bc he plays in TO. But not enough to the point where some are suggesting.
Key is where do Stamkos wants to play? If he wants to play for the Leafs, he will be a Leafs regardless of how much Stevie Y throw at him bc he knows he can get the same deal from the Leafs.
I was watching some old videos the other day and although I seen the 2015 draft/behind the scene a few times already, something new hits me. It was Connor congratulating Marner on being draft by the Leafs, although it was only a sec, you could see that Connor was happy Marner got to play for the Leafs, but u didn't see Marner congratulated Connor on being draft by the Oilers. I think that said a lot about guys growing up living, breathing, tasting hockey and the impact of wanting to play for their favor and home team.
Esp., since the Leafs have one of/if not the best MGT in the league.

Did you see McDavid and Strome's reactions? When McDavid found out that the Oilers were going to draft him, the kid looked like death took over him for a little while. Marner was like a kid in a candy store.

 

[gabeliscious]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, in addition to declaring he won't waive his no trade clause:



$77M over 7 years minimum.

Which means the Lightning would have to come up to $9.6M per season to match that minimum expectation to provide that same amount over 8 seasons.

I see this settling at $10M. Just a hunch.

i dont see how stamkos takes less then toews and kane. especially if it is with a new team and only 7 years. i think leafs wills sign hin for 7 x 10.75 million. he looses the 8th year but at 32 he will be able to sign another ufa contract.

 

[Menzinger]

i dont see how stamkos takes less then toews and kane. especially if it is with a new team and only 7 years. i think leafs wills sign hin for 7 x 10.75 million. he looses the 8th year but at 32 he will be able to sign another ufa contract.

I think it's near certain that Stamkos will be the highest paid NHLer come shyly 1st.

His agent holds all the leverage in the world when it comes to negotiations. What's left to be seen is if it will be the Leafs, Bolts or some other team that gets to give such a contract.

 

[Stephen]

Two thing worth considering here:

1) 7 vs 8 years may matter less than you think. A lot of people keeps saying "Stamkos is one big hit from a career ender, so of course he'll want the 8th year," but to put things into perspective, guys like Eric Staal, Rick Nash, Jason Spezza are around that age now, so this is far from a retirement contract.

2) If Stamkos tests free agency July 1, the Lightning will not be able to offer an 8 year deal anymore, so that levels the playing field at that point.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Yeah I'm sure that's changing also, but at the end of the day there's some cultural habit that's deeper than mere wins and losses. I suspect when the Leafs are good again we'll see them spike in popularity like the Jays did this past summer.

Oh, it will definitely be bigger for the Leafs. Whatever the changes in demographics, this is still a hockey town at its core. When the Jays sucked, they were forgotten. The Leafs are not forgotten right now, they are just put aside. The youth of Toronto will eat up the Leafs if they ever become good again. And if they win a cup? That will be mayhem. Anyone who ever witnessed a Leafs' cup will be a fan for life.