Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[Daisy Jane]

Hmm so much for that one. I dunno, it feels to me like he wants to come to Toronto. Has felt like that for some time actually. I just hope we don't overpay for him.

Gary - question for you -

if we overpaid him in real dollars - but his AAV was lower would you be okay with that?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Many Canadians become American citizens, just to avoid that tax.

Agreed. I know a few. Some Canadians even have more than two citizenships, own more than one company in more than one country, and have multiple residences in different countries. I know a few of those guys too.

 

[mccabe2424]

I feel like we wont be giving our prospects a chance to become our own franchise players this is basically eliminating one of willie or marner playing C if we keep Kadri and what if we get 1st overall? Lets just develop our own Stamkos it would be 11 million cheaper

 

[egd27]

I feel like we wont be giving our prospects a chance to become our own franchise players this is basically eliminating one of willie or marner playing C if we keep Kadri and what if we get 1st overall? Lets just develop our own Stamkos it would be 11 million cheaper

Why stop there? Might as well develop our own Gretzky or Lemieux if it's that simple.

 

[ACC1224]

Why stop there? Might as well develop our own Gretzky or Lemieux if it's that simple.

Then they'll have cap issues.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Absolutely.
I think all this tax, exchange, etc is way down his list of how he'll choose his Team to play for.

Agreed. There are creative loopholes to mitigate the tax implications, and the endorsement potential in this market compared to others would balance the monetary scales and then some.

 

[Stephen]

Kind of all reads the same way.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...ey_devils_wont_play_for_new_york_rangers.html

 

[Leafsbeast*]

I keep telling myself that as well, but you have to admit it's strange it's gone this long. Maybe Yzerman thinks he can do better with getting two $5M players, or maybe he's thinking about the contracts he'll have to offer Kucherov, Palat, Johnson not to mention Hedman. You never know.

this post makes sense.

If Stamkos stays in Tampa, they will certainly be in cap hell next year or letting someone with talent get away via trade or FA.

But fact is, SY is willing to deal with that, hence the 8.5 offer. Whether they can afford the 9.5 that he will be signed for is a different story.

 

[Leafsbeast*]

Of course he'll say that he wants to stay. Till he leaves. Fans will bash him. It'll cause friction in the dressing room etc.

The report that his parents just bought a house or moved to Tampa or near Tampa are false. He said so multiple times.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2015/12/19/steven-stamkos-tampa-bay-lightning-future/77645298/

True, I remember him saying that. But that could be just semantics because there are lots of communities just outside Tampa.

If in fact, they did move just outside Tampa, is say Clearwater (an area some snowbirds prefer to the east coast), then he wouldn't be lying.

Most snowbirds choose WPB, Daytona and Miami beach.

I am for Stamkos in Toronto by the way, I just don't see it happening.

 

[Leafsbeast*]

Maybe it will get done but I wouldn't be so sure.

He said he wants to stay - even if that's not true, he'd still say that so that's meaningless.

Why has he liked tweets that have him coming to Toronto? Why has he done this more than once?

Perhaps because he is a prankster and likes to get people going?

I dunno, but I will say this, we are closer to getting him than we were 2 months ago.

I thought he would be signed over the Christmas holidays to tell you the truth.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Gary - question for you -

if we overpaid him in real dollars - but his AAV was lower would you be okay with that?

You mean if we somehow circumvented the cap rules and somehow slipped him some money via endorsements or whatever? Mixed feeling. On one hand, I like to play fair and win fair and square. On the other hand, Leaf fans have had such bad luck for so long, maybe cutting a few corners just this once would be OK. I dunno though, is that like being a little bit pregnant?

I guess I wanna play fair. When we win the cup, I want to know we did it fairly, not because we have deep pockets as an organization.

this post makes sense.

If Stamkos stays in Tampa, they will certainly be in cap hell next year or letting someone with talent get away via trade or FA.

But fact is, SY is willing to deal with that, hence the 8.5 offer. Whether they can afford the 9.5 that he will be signed for is a different story.

Maybe. But maybe he knows that an offer that low won't be accepted and this way, he can't be accused of letting Stamkos walk without even making an offer.

Perhaps because he is a prankster and likes to get people going?

I dunno, but I will say this, we are closer to getting him than we were 2 months ago.

I thought he would be signed over the Christmas holidays to tell you the truth.

Prankster, yeah maybe. I agree the longer this goes on, the more likely he is headed this way. And I thought the deal would be done before the season started but you never know, Kopitar's deal only got done now so ... it is interesting, I really don't know what the hell is going on with this situation. It is entertaining though

 

[Daisy Jane]

You mean if we somehow circumvented the cap rules and somehow slipped him some money via endorsements or whatever? Mixed feeling. On one hand, I like to play fair and win fair and square. On the other hand, Leaf fans have had such bad luck for so long, maybe cutting a few corners just this once would be OK. I dunno though, is that like being a little bit pregnant?

I guess I wanna play fair. When we win the cup, I want to know we did it fairly, not because we have deep pockets as an organization.

no. just what i mean.
that the AAV is is like 9.5
but years 1-4 is like 14, 13, 12 million.
but the end is like 7-6-5 or something. like the math works out. not like the old-backsliding (which you can't do anyway - but backsliding legally which a lot of contracts have in place anyway. Lupul's is like that, so was Kessels).



I never understand what what. "fairly" means. like are we supposed to run at a deficit because Ottawa or Florida or Columbus are budget teams? People always state that - they want to be "fair." What's that saying? All's Fair in Love & War and Sports-teams?

Prankster, yeah maybe. I agree the longer this goes on, the more likely he is headed this way. And I thought the deal would be done before the season started but you never know, Kopitar's deal only got done now so ... it is interesting, I really don't know what the hell is going on with this situation. It is entertaining though

I'd assume to though that Kopi wasn' offered only a 1.5 million dollar raise to start negotiations either.

 

[Stephen]

Yzerman doesn't seem to be acting like Stamkos is his number one priority though. There's been this tendency to tinker with his game, shift him out of position, reduced ice time, and otherwise knock him down a peg which doesn't seem like . I understand Hedman, Kucherov, Johnson and Palat and Bishop too are all RFAs and UFAs this season and next. If Stamkos was the first priority, you sign him and then worry about keeping the rest of those pieces as they come.

It's weird. Stamkos is already making $7.5 million, so a $9.5 million-10 million contract is only a bump of $2.5 million. Yet they seem to be penny pinching on this. Maybe they want to re-distribute the entire $7.5 million to be able to comfortably pay everybody else? Kind of like their version of letting Jason Giami walk sort of thing.

 

[Gary Nylund]

no. just what i mean.
that the AAV is is like 9.5
but years 1-4 is like 14, 13, 12 million.
but the end is like 7-6-5 or something. like the math works out. not like the old-backsliding (which you can't do anyway - but backsliding legally which a lot of contracts have in place anyway. Lupul's is like that, so was Kessels).

OK sorry, I wasn't 100% sure what you meant so I took I guess. Sure, legal backsliding makes sense to me for several reasons. One, frees up cap space for when we'll really need it and two, will make Stamkos more easily tradeable (assuming he doesn't have a full NTC).

I never understand what what. "fairly" means. like are we supposed to run at a deficit because Ottawa or Florida or Columbus are budget teams? People always state that - they want to be "fair." What's that saying? All's Fair in Love & War and Sports-teams?

I'd assume to though that Kopi wasn' offered only a 1.5 million dollar raise to start negotiations either.

OK sorry, I wasn't 100% sure what you meant so I took I guess. Sure, legal backsliding makes sense to me for several reasons. One, frees up cap space for when we'll really need it and two, will make Stamkos more easily tradeable (assuming he doesn't have a full NTC).

By fair I just mean that we don't do like some are suggesting, pay him a lower cap hit and do some sort of nudge nudge wink wink deal where we slip him dollars in somr other ways.

Yzerman doesn't seem to be acting like Stamkos is his number one priority though. There's been this tendency to tinker with his game, shift him out of position, reduced ice time, and otherwise knock him down a peg which doesn't seem like . I understand Hedman, Kucherov, Johnson and Palat and Bishop too are all RFAs and UFAs this season and next. If Stamkos was the first priority, you sign him and then worry about keeping the rest of those pieces as they come.

It's weird. Stamkos is already making $7.5 million, so a $9.5 million-10 million contract is only a bump of $2.5 million. Yet they seem to be penny pinching on this. Maybe they want to re-distribute the entire $7.5 million to be able to comfortably pay everybody else? Kind of like their version of letting Jason Giami walk sort of thing.

It does feel like Stevie thinks there are better ways to spend the money than to pay Stamkos 10m or whatever and you know what, I think he's right. At 10m, the chance of Stamkos performing above that level is zero. The chance of him performing below that level is substantial and it's possible he under-performs it by a lot. There's so much talent on that team that needs to be paid so it's not like he doesn't have anyone to spend the money on.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

You mean if we somehow circumvented the cap rules and somehow slipped him some money via endorsements or whatever? Mixed feeling. On one hand, I like to play fair and win fair and square. On the other hand, Leaf fans have had such bad luck for so long, maybe cutting a few corners just this once would be OK. I dunno though, is that like being a little bit pregnant?

I guess I wanna play fair. When we win the cup, I want to know we did it fairly, not because we have deep pockets as an organization.

Do you think those Cup winning teams with the cap circumventing contracts care that they bent the rules? No doubt Chicago cries themselves to sleep. Do you think the players don't bend the rules all the time?

Everyone hates Toronto anyway. Give them a reason to hate. Imagine the hate if you develop a perpetual winner?

Screw 'em.

In fact, we should probably be offended by propping up half the league and having them be able to use our own money plus regional advantages against us.

 

[Snow Dog]

Yzerman doesn't seem to be acting like Stamkos is his number one priority though. There's been this tendency to tinker with his game, shift him out of position, reduced ice time, and otherwise knock him down a peg which doesn't seem like . I understand Hedman, Kucherov, Johnson and Palat and Bishop too are all RFAs and UFAs this season and next. If Stamkos was the first priority, you sign him and then worry about keeping the rest of those pieces as they come.

It's weird. Stamkos is already making $7.5 million, so a $9.5 million-10 million contract is only a bump of $2.5 million. Yet they seem to be penny pinching on this. Maybe they want to re-distribute the entire $7.5 million to be able to comfortably pay everybody else? Kind of like their version of letting Jason Giami walk sort of thing.

Tinker with his play is an understatement.He was playing the PK the other night.What idiot puts a player famous for his scoring prowess out to block shots.Too easy to get injured.As well Stamkos should be waiting to jump on the ice the second the PK is over to take advantage of the fact the opponents best players are on the bench after having a PP.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Do you think those Cup winning teams with the cap circumventing contracts care that they bent the rules? No doubt Chicago cries themselves to sleep. Do you think the players don't bend the rules all the time?

Everyone hates Toronto anyway. Give them a reason to hate. Imagine the hate if you develop a perpetual winner?

Screw 'em.

In fact, we should probably be offended by propping up half the league and having them be able to use our own money plus regional advantages against us.

Not sure what you mean. Those contracts were within the rule of the law (f not the spirit).

 

[Daisy Jane]

Not sure what you mean. Those contracts were within the rule of the law (f not the spirit).

but not 'fair'

so if we can get endorsements to pay for Stamkos's contract somewhat, and if that's within the rule ifnot the spirit who cares if it's fair or not.

we benefit

 

[garce]

Do you think those Cup winning teams with the cap circumventing contracts care that they bent the rules? No doubt Chicago cries themselves to sleep. Do you think the players don't bend the rules all the time?

Everyone hates Toronto anyway. Give them a reason to hate. Imagine the hate if you develop a perpetual winner?

Screw 'em.

In fact, we should probably be offended by propping up half the league and having them be able to use our own money plus regional advantages against us.

For sure, despite the tax disadvantage, there's a huge upside for a native son to come in and dominate first the GTA in endorsements and quickly to follow a lot of Canada. All it takes is confidence and drive Stamkos appears to have both.

 

[Gary Nylund]

but not 'fair'

so if we can get endorsements to pay for Stamkos's contract somewhat, and if that's within the rule ifnot the spirit who cares if it's fair or not.

we benefit

If it's allowed then sure.

 

[KLM-Line]

Right now Yzerman seems to find himself between a rock and a hard place. He cannot discount the potential of Stamkos returning to form and going to put Tampa in a prime spot in the east for the next years. All that while Stevie still has to work a cap & a budget which has to include the younger talent (whoich seems to be more managable in every aspect - but potential compared to Stamkos). I can see Yzerman being stubborn enough to refuse Stammer the numbers he'd like to see on his pay check.

But then - how do get the most in a trade for your "former" franchise player while he is in his down year and only a rental (=interesting to contenders) and waives his (limited?) NTC in front of your eyes ... after a failed extension contract talk? Tough times for Stevie Y.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Not sure what you mean. Those contracts were within the rule of the law (f not the spirit).

Every one of them intentionally bent the spirit of it, which is exactly what some of us propose the Leafs do.

 

[Bomber0104]

Absolutely.
I think all this tax, exchange, etc is way down his list of how he'll choose his Team to play for.

Yeah, because obviously everyone just wants to surrender money (to the government) because of some childish, sentimental reason...

Pro hockey players, agents, lawyers, etc...

They all feel this way together?

 

[Stephen]

Right now Yzerman seems to find himself between a rock and a hard place. He cannot discount the potential of Stamkos returning to form and going to put Tampa in a prime spot in the east for the next years. All that while Stevie still has to work a cap & a budget which has to include the younger talent (whoich seems to be more managable in every aspect - but potential compared to Stamkos). I can see Yzerman being stubborn enough to refuse Stammer the numbers he'd like to see on his pay check.

But then - how do get the most in a trade for your "former" franchise player while he is in his down year and only a rental (=interesting to contenders) and waives his (limited?) NTC in front of your eyes ... after a failed extension contract talk? Tough times for Stevie Y.

Steve Yzerman seems to have developed a bit of a hardliner personality as a GM, which earns him SFY cred with the Lightning crowd but maybe puts him into tough positions where he has to be a bad cop on top of doing the right thing, which in this case could mean locking up Stamkos.

 

[Bomber0104]

Do you think those Cup winning teams with the cap circumventing contracts care that they bent the rules? No doubt Chicago cries themselves to sleep. Do you think the players don't bend the rules all the time?

Everyone hates Toronto anyway. Give them a reason to hate. Imagine the hate if you develop a perpetual winner?

Screw 'em.

In fact, we should probably be offended by propping up half the league and having them be able to use our own money plus regional advantages against us.

To be honest, I think people are vastly over-rating the potential of player endorsements.

Phil Kessel was the face of the Leafs for how long...

And he got a private endorsement from which company beyond the Bauer/CCM/RBK/Easton domain? (which every NHLPA member becomes a part of upon entry to the league)

Gold Tuna and Asus...right?

Phaneuf.... Red Bull
Lupul .... Shop.ca
Bozak and JVR ... Asus (along with Kessel)

Even beyond the Leafs, arguably the biggest athlete Toronto has had in a decade (Jose Bautista) only has a couple endorsements with Booster Juice and Pizza Pizza.