Will dubas ever try a major trade?

[hamzarocks]

Gardiner busted his back that year and I don't think that he was healthy during deadline that year. It was mostly bad luck, because we could have used him in the playoffs or traded him, but we got 50% version of Gardiner for playoffs and there was no value for trading his rights in that condition after season.

We traded for Muzzin on Jan 28th, 2019 while Gards got hurt Feb 27th, 2019

We could/should have dealt him in that time as we already had 2 great LHDs. I don't think the plan was to trade Gardiner at all. We were hoping he'd be healthy and play good for us. Sadly didn't work out that way

 

[Stephen]

I'd argue not trading JVR/Bozak/Komarov/Gardiner and trading 2nds for Boyle and Plekanec set the tone before Tavares was even on the radar. Hell Lou went so hard after Stamkos that he scared him off. I agree with you that we should have stuck to a slower and more intensive draft and development process early on, but by the time Dubas stepped in we already had our entire prospect pool on the Marlies or Leafs with Korshkov and Grundstrom as the next man up. Going back and slowing things down to make up for Hunter's draft gap might have been a better long term move in hindsight, but that would be a hard sell at the time with the 3 RFAs needing big contracts and us not having playoff doubts about them yet. We'd have the same protests on the board about Dubas wasting the core's time with an extended rebuild when we could have had Tavares/Panarin.

Dubas has been at the helm for 3x years now, signed the biggest cheques and after Hyman and Andersen leave Rielly will be the only Lou contract left over. So we’re well past the whole angle of Dubas having to stick handle Lou’s moves. This is all Dubas good or bad.

 

[ULF_55]

Dubas has been at the helm for 3x years now, signed the biggest cheques and after Hyman and Andersen leave Rielly will be the only Lou contract left over. So we’re well past the whole angle of Dubas having to stick handle Lou’s moves. This is all Dubas good or bad.

None of the past 4 GM's have had any luck landing a goaltender, the 5th. last one was rushed into moving the best one the team has drafted in like 30 years.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Dubas has been at the helm for 3x years now, signed the biggest cheques and after Hyman and Andersen leave Rielly will be the only Lou contract left over. So we’re well past the whole angle of Dubas having to stick handle Lou’s moves. This is all Dubas good or bad.

He still has to stick handle Lou's prospect pool. Amirov/Robertson/Sandin and then the next cohort of Abramov/Abruzesse/Niemela/Hirvonen not being ready D+1-3 is not a reasonable criticism.

Surely you'd agree that our ability to move own rentals for assets would be greater if we had any of Lou/Hunter's prospects actually turn into something beyond 4th line tweeners. If you have no ELC replacements coming up through the system, what choice do you have other than to tear it down and start over or keep your rentals and go for it as best you can? Treading water moving middle-6 pieces for picks while your core is in their prime doesn't seem like an option any GM would go for.

The choice to not lean fully into the rebuild happened before Tavares, Tavares was a consequence of pulling out of the rebuild early.

 

[NMacrules]

Muzzin
Campbell
Barrie
Kerfoot
Foligno
Ceci
Clifford
Nash
Rittich
Petan
Malgin
Anderson
Vehviläinen

Kadri
Kapanen
Brown
Johnsson
Zaitsev
Marleau
Leivo
Lehtonen
Moore
Timashov


In 3yrs so far.

This is a hodgepodge list that if assembled correctly, could beat our current team.

 

[Stephen]

He still has to stick handle Lou's prospect pool. Amirov/Robertson/Sandin and then the next cohort of Abramov/Abruzesse/Niemela/Hirvonen not being ready D+1-3 is not a reasonable criticism.

Surely you'd agree that our ability to move own rentals for assets would be greater if we had any of Lou/Hunter's prospects actually turn into something beyond 4th line tweeners. If you have no ELC replacements coming up through the system, what choice do you have other than to tear it down and start over or keep your rentals and go for it as best you can? Treading water moving middle-6 pieces for picks while your core is in their prime doesn't seem like an option any GM would go for.

The choice to not lean fully into the rebuild happened before Tavares, Tavares was a consequence of pulling out of the rebuild early.

What I’m saying is the Tavares deal with the devil was a potential fatal blow to the Leaf build as a draft and develop franchise. But the reality didn’t sink in until we saw the full butterfly effect of locking up the Big 3 and the myriad cap gymnastics required since then.

The only real way out of this is to offload a Big 4 contract, regroup and hope there is a group among the drafted prospect pool, but it doesn’t seem like this regime will move to rectify those issues. So continue the churning of short term patch work and pray that the Big 4 aren’t who we think they are.

 

[zeke]

See by draft day??? the picks are gone. Other than the 7th he just traded these were all gone when you made the comments on Saturday. Sure he could acquire a bunch of picks between now and each of those drafts but he has to trade something away to do it. Trade one of the big 4 and you could even gain a couple 1sts but that is not the point.

You praised him for acquiring a ton picks (which turn out to be 6th or 7th rounders for the most part) in the 2018 through 2020 drafts while ignoring the 1st, 2 3rds, 2 4ths. 5th, 6th and 2 7ths he has traded away from the next 3. Dubas is many things but a net accumulator of picks he isn't.

We'll see what happens by draft day.

 

[zeke]

Like every year, he'll trade down and the Dubas minions will write and post how he dominated the draft.

Then we play the waiting game for those picks to materialize into NHL players.

He's definitely the best at winning the day among Twitter analytics guys. No debate there.

Draft 1:

Sandin pick #29 has played the 18th most games in his draft class.

Robertson pick #53 has played 16th most games in his.

Also has the most impressive crop of prospect performance in the last WJC.

He good.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

It's not Dubas' fault, he's the best GM, but he's just been unlucky

 

[Stephen]

None of the past 4 GM's have had any luck landing a goaltender, the 5th. last one was rushed into moving the best one the team has drafted in like 30 years.

I've been listening to a goalie podcast and I think they mentioned some teams are hiring specific goalie scout specialists. Maybe the Leafs need that moving forward.

 

[The CyNick]

Draft 1:

Sandin pick #29 has played the 18th most games in his draft class.

Robertson pick #53 has played 16th most games in his.

Also has the most impressive crop of prospect performance in the last WJC.

He good.

Lol. Keep hoping Pal. Keep hoping.

 

[LeafsAvs]

Dubas has collected so many picks that the Leafs have made 27 picks in his 3 drafts, which is over 2 extra picks per draft.

Dubas,is that you?

 

[Guided by Veseys]

He seems like an extremely active GM to me so I wouldn’t be surprised if he pulls off a few shockers this summer. It’s do or die time so any prospect could be on the move. Maybe we see Lily go for a veteran with one year remaining and retained. Even Robbie or Sandin could be moved. Dubas isn’t boring at the very least.

 

[Martin Skoula]

What I’m saying is the Tavares deal with the devil was a potential fatal blow to the Leaf build as a draft and develop franchise. But the reality didn’t sink in until we saw the full butterfly effect of locking up the Big 3 and the myriad cap gymnastics required since then.

The only real way out of this is to offload a Big 4 contract, regroup and hope there is a group among the drafted prospect pool, but it doesn’t seem like this regime will move to rectify those issues. So continue the churning of short term patch work and pray that the Big 4 aren’t who we think they are.

Bozak = late 1st
JVR = late 1st
Komarov = 2nd
Plekanec + Boyle = 2x 2nd

The "all in" "rebuild over" movement started before Tavares was signed. He locked it in permanently, sure, but we already sacrificed an entire wave of ELC talent to keeping own rentals and renting 4th liners (and failing in back to back drafts). If not Tavares, we would have had to use that money on someone else to maximize the core's remaining ELC years and Kadri/Rielly/Andersen's primes. I don't know that we're better off with 2x 5-6 mil gritty UFAs instead of Tavares, the end result is likely the same other than having an extra 2-3 mil to spend from whatever savings we would have gotten on the big RFAs. I don't know how any GM would take over for Lou and decide to slow play an extended rebuild after Lou just sat on 2 Muzzins worth of assets for nothing.

If Dubas spends the equivalent of Sandin, Amirov, Robertson, Niemela and Hirvonen on rentals while not hitting any of his other draft picks in a 3 year window, I'm not going to blame the next GM for not having productive ELC talent to drive costs down.

 

[Nylanderthal]

So we pretty much traded Kapanen for McCann and Amirov.

Not bad, nerdo, not bad.

Dweeb

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas,is that you?

It’s his photo and tag line. A GM, too funny.

 

[Antropovsky]

I feel like Dubas likes to make deals more than most Toronto GMs I'm the past.. he may even turnover things too quickly. He seems to be always be on the look out for a diamond in the rough too... ex Malgin, Petan.

Campbell trade while in SOO show he's not afraid of crazy trades.

 

[ACC1224]

I feel like Dubas likes to make deals more than most Toronto GMs I'm the past.. he may even turnover things too quickly. He seems to be always be on the look out for a diamond in the rough too... ex Malgin, Petan.

Campbell trade while in SOO show he's not afraid of crazy trades.

A crazy trade would be perfect. What could go wrong?

 

[sittler rules!!!]

He's traded Kadri and Kapanen. He's acquired Muzzin.

I don't think he is afraid to make a large trade.

In terms of trading the core, you don't see many teams anywhere doing the same.

But if the core don't work, and one ,maybe two appear to be tumors in the room, would it not be worth it to remove one and address depth with that money,

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Muzzin
Campbell
Barrie
Kerfoot
Foligno
Ceci
Clifford
Nash
Rittich
Petan
Malgin
Anderson
Vehviläinen

Kadri
Kapanen
Brown
Johnsson
Zaitsev
Marleau
Leivo
Lehtonen
Moore
Timashov


In 3yrs so far.

Out of the ones he moved out, the top 3 I would take back in a heartbeat to get rid of Marner. Funny thing is, they could afford all 3 if they got rid of Marner. And all 3 are top 6 forwards. Is that good asset management??

 

[613Leafer]

It's not Dubas' fault, he's the best GM, but he's just been unlucky

Yea, his Expected Good Contracts/60 is really really good.

 

[The90]

Dubas has collected so many picks that the Leafs have made 27 picks in his 3 drafts, which is over 2 extra picks per draft.

Hey now none of that. We’re burning Dubas at the stake.

Also, don’t forget to mention the necessity of some of those trades for cap purposes. ‘We can and we will’ ‘we could and we did’. Maybe it hasn’t worked out, but dubas has done a pretty decent job acquiring depth around the core 3 that were already in place before him. As a gm he can only provide the best team with what he has, and the players need to perform. As far as I’m concerned the last 2 years have been on the players, not gm for why they lost. This year especially.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Yep.

Nope

 

[All Mod Cons]

I care about results and Dubas hasn't gotten any in 3 years as GM. If we fall to advance past the first round again, next season should be his last.

I'd give him yet another year if he fails in spectacular fashion.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hey now none of that. We’re burning Dubas at the stake.

Also, don’t forget to mention the necessity of some of those trades for cap purposes. ‘We can and we will’ ‘we could and we did’. Maybe it hasn’t worked out, but dubas has done a pretty decent job acquiring depth around the core 3 that were already in place before him. As a gm he can only provide the best team with what he has, and the players need to perform. As far as I’m concerned the last 2 years have been on the players, not gm for why they lost. This year especially.

The GM was the one who acquired the players. Pretty bizarre POV that he's not accountable here. If you don't judge the GM by how the team performs then what do you judge him on? Expected wins? Expected cups? Expected corsi/fenwick?