Will dubas ever try a major trade?

[Advanced stats]

That’s a lot of cap dumps due to poor cap management, and picks for rentals.

There's only 3 average player on the traded out list... and a whole pile of meh. No huge losses as far as I'm concerned

 

[Stephen]

And, as noted, dubas has also traded for 1sts and 2nds and more.

Since taking over in 2018 as GM, he's traded for 1x 1st rounder (Amirov) at the cost of a 23 year old recent first rounder.

The other first and second rounders, I'm assuming you're going back to the Daniel Winnik, Phil Kessel days. Trading down for multiple inferior draft positions could count too, but that's quality out, quantity in and not converting surplus players into solid futures.

 

[Gallagbi]

P.s. here is the 1st round we missed out on. Our pick would have been 28th iirc:

View attachment 453578

22nd was ours

 

[zeke]

Since taking over in 2018 as GM, he's traded for 1x 1st rounder (Amirov) at the cost of a 23 year old recent first rounder.

The other first and second rounders, I'm assuming you're going back to the Daniel Winnik, Phil Kessel days. Trading down for multiple inferior draft positions could count too, but that's quality out, quantity in and not converting surplus players into solid futures.

Again, the draft picks dubas has been able to use are clearly outlined above.

 

[zeke]

22nd was ours

Cool.

So these are the picks we missed out on:

 

[zeke]

Ah I forgot to include Hallander in the list above.

 

[Stephen]

Again, the draft picks dubas has been able to use are clearly outlined above.

It's immaterial. We're still down a number of high picks which were spent on poorly thought out deadline acquisitions and salary shedding maneuvers over the years.

 

[Apex Predator]

Ah I forgot to include Hallander in the list above.

Will he be with the Marlies this year?

 

[zeke]

It's immaterial. We're still down a number of high picks which were spent on poorly thought out deadline acquisitions and salary shedding maneuvers over the years.

27 picks in his first 3 drafts.

By round:

1: -1
2: ---
3: +1
4: +2
5: ---
6: +1
7: +3

 

[zeke]

Will he be with the Marlies this year?

Yep.

 

[deprw]

And, as noted, dubas has also traded for 1sts and 2nds and more.

But hey, that doesn't fit the narrative.

When looking that list of @Stephen, I'd say that in hindsight it's easy to say why did we pick up Plekanec, but those others. We lost lot of assets on Muzzin trade, but it was major piece we really needed. Three assets there. Getting rid of Marleua gave us one season to contend with this core, without that move we would have ditched value youngsters for that 1st rounder. We were behind eight ball and wouldn't got that much value out of Kapanen and Johnson, because we'd be forced to trade those assets.

Do I think Foligno trade was good? Nope, but I think this draft is pretty hard to gather value because of covid and if we lost without Foligno we would be second guessing why we didn't get any rentals when we had this huge opportunity. It's easy narrative say in hindsight that we should have just drafted, drafted and drafted since our core is terrible. Though why we didn't that core for picks if we knew they were terrible? Well maybe because you had to trust them to get over the hump like all organizations do.

Way I see our last season is as I see 2016-2017 season for Capitals. It was no brainer to push and because it didn't work out we take step back and gather some assets. Though rumours say that there are lot of players on the move, so I wouldn't count out any major trades before start of the season. I think it's possible that we trade Marner and I anticipate that we resign Rielly, but if we don't there might be one big decision for us to make.

 

[Stephen]

27 picks in his first 3 drafts.

By round:

1: -1
2: ---
3: +1
4: +2
5: ---
6: +1
7: +3

Yeah, having a deficit at the top of the draft and a surplus at the bottom without any net improvement in the team going deeper in the playoffs isn't a positive.

 

[Stephen]

But hey, that doesn't fit the narrative.

When looking that list of @Stephen, I'd say that in hindsight it's easy to say why did we pick up Plekanec, but those others. We lost lot of assets on Muzzin trade, but it was major piece we really needed. Three assets there. Getting rid of Marleua gave us one season to contend with this core, without that move we would have ditched value youngsters for that 1st rounder. We were behind eight ball and wouldn't got that much value out of Kapanen and Johnson, because we'd be forced to trade those assets.

Do I think Foligno trade was good? Nope, but I think this draft is pretty hard to gather value because of covid and if we lost without Foligno we would be second guessing why we didn't get any rentals when we had this huge opportunity. It's easy narrative say in hindsight that we should have just drafted, drafted and drafted since our core is terrible. Though why we didn't that core for picks if we knew they were terrible? Well maybe because you had to trust them to get over the hump like all organizations do.

Way I see our last season is as I see 2016-2017 season for Capitals. It was no brainer to push and because it didn't work out we take step back and gather some assets. Though rumours say that there are lot of players on the move, so I wouldn't count out any major trades before start of the season. I think it's possible that we trade Marner and I anticipate that we resign Rielly, but if we don't there might be one big decision for us to make.

If you subtract the Muzzin deal, you'd still be looking at;

2x first round picks and 2x second round picks out and a combined result of 24 games of Tomas Plekanec, 11 games of Nick Foligno and 27 game of Brian Boyle and for Marleau to go away.

And in those 62 combined games we got out of those 4x picks, we got a total of 2x goals scored.

Those are some bad returns.

 

[AndyWozniewski]

I care about results and Dubas hasn't gotten any in 3 years as GM. If we fall to advance past the first round again, next season should be his last.

 

[egd27]

Muzzin
Campbell
Barrie
Kerfoot
Foligno
Ceci
Clifford
Nash
Rittich
Petan
Malgin
Anderson
Vehviläinen

13 acquisitions in 3 years and 2 (maybe 3) roster players still around to show for it.

That can't be considered a good trade record, can it?

 

[ToneDog]

Other than the 2 best players on either list you mean.

Right for Muzz but I take the list of Leafs which tells a better story.

 

[Apex Predator]

Yep.

Guess not anymore lol

 

[zeke]

Will he be with the Marlies this year?

Er.....nope!

 

[zeke]

Update:

Muzzin
Campbell
Barrie
McCann
Kerfoot
Foligno
Ceci
Clifford
Nash
Rittich
Petan
Malgin
Anderson
Vehviläinen

Kadri
Kapanen
Brown
Johnsson
Zaitsev
Marleau
Leivo
Lehtonen
Moore
Timashov

 

[Dreakmur]

There's only 3 average player on the traded out list... and a whole pile of meh. No huge losses as far as I'm concerned

3 average players would have helped our depth quite a bit, don't you think?

 

[Stonehands1990]

Ah I forgot to include Hallander in the list above.

This was a premonition. Zeke psychic abilities

 

[Raym11]

3 average players would have helped our depth quite a bit, don't you think?

thats assuming we still have Muzzin, Campbell, Barrie, and Kerfoot.

 

[zeke]

So we pretty much traded Kapanen for McCann and Amirov.

Not bad, nerdo, not bad.

 

[francis246]

P.s. here is the 1st round we missed out on. Our pick would have been 28th iirc:

View attachment 453578

our pick was #22. we traded our first to LA

 

[francis246]

Dubas and Lamoriello have combined to trade away:

A 2nd for Boyle - Lamoriello
A 2nd for Plekanec -Lamoriello
A 1st (and a 7th to dispose of Marleau) -Lamoriello/Dubas collaboration
A 1st (and a 4th) for Foligno - Dubas
A 1st for Muzzin -Dubas
Grundstrom for Muzzin (a 2nd) -Dubas
Durzi fforMuzzin (a 2nd) -Dubas

That's 7x 1st round or 2nd round assets moved out the door in deadline acquisitions and upgrades over the past 5 years and all we have to show for it is one Jake Muzzin. That's an entire youth movement right there.

i commented on your post earlier, we recouped a first for the Marleau deal (so we didn't really feel a negative effect there)

When we traded for Boyle and Plekanec in both years we had multiple 2nd's, in fact the 2nd's that were chosen by those teams didn't really amount to anything special.