WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
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Ok fine maybe John Tavares is a better comparable. Either way, people shouldn't dismiss reinhart so easily. He's got crazy good hockey IQ and plays a complete game to boot. Total package.
Why the Sabres won't end up like the Oilers
- Thread starter Johnnydrama21
- Start date
Ok fine maybe John Tavares is a better comparable. Either way, people shouldn't dismiss reinhart so easily. He's got crazy good hockey IQ and plays a complete game to boot. Total package.
BigBen
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2014
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What an awful article. Buffalo is playing worse than they did last year, so it seems as though their rebuild is going just as well as the oilers'. Nothing suggests their rebuild will be great, the oilers played them tonight and I don't think I've seen an NHL team ever look that bad.
McDNicks17
Moderator
I've seen Baptiste live quite a few times. I know who he is.
The Oilers have had plenty of prospects like them, but you've probably forgot about them because they didn't amount to anything.
Paajarvi looked better than Hall/Eberle. Pitlick and Martindale had great years in the WHL/OHL prior to jumping to the AHL. Hartikainen was looking like a lock to be a power forward in the NHL. Omark even looked like a decent NHLer. You can go back to Gagner/Cogliano/Nilsson looking like the future.
Things change fast. Lots of those guys you listed could fizzle out pretty quickly.
Prospects who aren't lighting up the AHL rarely hold much value too. I highly doubt there's going to be enough of them at that level to bring in quality NHLers from trades and have some left over to provide cheap depth to the Sabres.
The prospect depth should definitely be a source for optimism, but don't think it's something the Oilers didn't do. You just have to hope your team is luckier than the Oilers when it comes to those prospects.
Not to get too far into this but he doesn't have the hands or shot Tavares has. Hockey IQ without any tools to execute it, is neutralized.
McArthur
Registered User
tell that to wayne gretzky. terrible shot, didn't have to deke out anyone, averaged 2 points/game over his entire career. Hockey IQ is looking lost and then tapping in a wide open net. but from what I've seen, McDavid has the IQ too.
SettlementRichie10
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Both the Kings and Hawks had their moments of good fortune, as well. Kopitar falling to 11th overall in 2005, Hawks winning the lottery in 2008 to move up and get Kane.
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
12 1st or 2nd round picks since the '12 draft with 5 more this year gives them quite a few chances at quality players. Just hitting on 50% means harvesting 9 players for the team or assets used to acquire other pieces. Devine did a very good job the last few years in acquiring talent, and Murray has quite the rep for being integral I building other franchises so that's a pretty damn good base to start from. Having a deep pocketed owner that is willing to spend helps also. Buffalo will have plentyof cap space and roster spots to fill with UFAs or prospects.
Comparing Baptiste to Hamilton is really not fair at all. And it's what makes me think you really don't know much about Baptiste. Baptiste was absolutely dominant in his draft +1 season and has continued his progress this year when he got dealt to Erie. But Baptiste isn't the only one. The Oilers never had Armia and Grigorenko types. They had Gagner and MPS. Which, really was meh.
I really feel for Oilers fans because you lot have been through a lot, but that's not exactly saying much. I lived in Ottawa and watched Martindale. He was a complete product of Toffoli and eventually Prince. Pitlick was a dumb pick. Cogliano was before the rebuild, same with Nilsson. Gagner was rushed and a product of Kane/Kostytsin in junior. Having said that my original point is that the Oilers never had the depth the Sabres currently have.
The Sabres prospect depth is almost unheard of. The amount of top 60 picks they've accumulated, plus the non top 60 picks that have progressed fantastically is also, unheard of. The Sabres developmental strategy is also, miles ahead of the Oilers. Paajarvi was rushed and so was Gagner. (just an aside, I know they produced exceptionally well in the NHL as rookies but that doesn't mean they weren't rushed. Both would have likely panned out differently had they not been thrown to the wolves) The only player who was rushed is Grigorenko and the person who rushed him now has a new employer.
You have no clue who Reinhart is if this is a serious analysis.
I think this article is a little premature to say the least. Buffalo is going to get a great player in this draft and has a great prospect pool. This paints the Oilers as completely dysfunctional and the Sabres as this genius mastermind plan to fix everything.
Sure, have the oilers made mistakes along the way? Yup. But, it doesn't change the fact at RNH and Taylor Hall are both better than any player or prospect in the Sabres org at this point. They have alot of potential in their forward group and alot of good trade chips.
Add to that one of McDavid/Eichel/Hanafin/Strome and Draisatl down the line, the Oilers could easily make a Islanders like jump next year. Sure, they have big needs, especially on D or in goal. But, there are a few big fish out there in UFA d-men.
It's too early to right off the oilers rebuild as a failure and way too early to praise the Sabres rebuild as a slam dunk. It takes YEARS to properly rebuild a team. The Oilers have made mistakes, and so have the Sabres. The difference is, the Oilers are further along in their rebuild so their mistakes are obvious now. The Sabres don't know about draft picks they whiffed on because it takes years for players to develop.
Sure, have the oilers made mistakes along the way? Yup. But, it doesn't change the fact at RNH and Taylor Hall are both better than any player or prospect in the Sabres org at this point. They have alot of potential in their forward group and alot of good trade chips.
Add to that one of McDavid/Eichel/Hanafin/Strome and Draisatl down the line, the Oilers could easily make a Islanders like jump next year. Sure, they have big needs, especially on D or in goal. But, there are a few big fish out there in UFA d-men.
It's too early to right off the oilers rebuild as a failure and way too early to praise the Sabres rebuild as a slam dunk. It takes YEARS to properly rebuild a team. The Oilers have made mistakes, and so have the Sabres. The difference is, the Oilers are further along in their rebuild so their mistakes are obvious now. The Sabres don't know about draft picks they whiffed on because it takes years for players to develop.
stokes84
Registered User
You Have to understand, ZeroPT takes the absolute rose colored, homer outlook on all sabres players and prospects. There are no certainties, especially when you are dealing with prospects of this calibre. I have a real hard time envisioning where our goal scoring is going to come from outside of McEichel. We don't have any true snipers in the organization. Pretending we are set if we just add McDavid is crazy if you ask me.
You're going to have to point out where I said there were any certainties to anything in that post because I didn't.
Instead of just blabbering about why don't you make a structured post with an actual analysis? Or can you not do that?
MayDay
Registered User
Not all the Sabres prospects will pan out. Obviously. 
The point is, the Sabres have accumulated so many quality prospects from a massive number of high round picks that they don't all have to pan out.
Girgensons, Ristolainen, and Zadorov are already NHLers - that's already 3 for 3.
Sam Reinhart and whoever the Sabres pick first in this draft (almost certain at this point to be McDavid, Eichel, or Hanifin) are both slam-dunk 100% to be NHLers. That's 5.
Armia, Grigorenko, Pysyk, and McCabe are each more likely than not to make the NHL. But let's be conservative and say that two of those four bust and only two of them make it. That's 7.
After that you have a large group of decent prospects who all have a decent chance of breaking through for an NHL career. Lemieux, Baptiste, Fasching, Carrier, Compher, Larsson, Bailey, Karabacek, Ruhwedel, Ullmark, Makarov, Johansson - and that's just listing some of the better prospects. Let's say that 75% of that group of players busts out and never makes the NHL. That leaves three players from that group who make it. That's 10.
So even being fairly conservative and assuming that lots of guys will bust out, that's still a likely scenario of maybe 10 NHLers acquired from the draft in just a few years' drafts. That's a pretty rapid rebuild.
The point is, the Sabres have accumulated so many quality prospects from a massive number of high round picks that they don't all have to pan out.
Girgensons, Ristolainen, and Zadorov are already NHLers - that's already 3 for 3.
Sam Reinhart and whoever the Sabres pick first in this draft (almost certain at this point to be McDavid, Eichel, or Hanifin) are both slam-dunk 100% to be NHLers. That's 5.
Armia, Grigorenko, Pysyk, and McCabe are each more likely than not to make the NHL. But let's be conservative and say that two of those four bust and only two of them make it. That's 7.
After that you have a large group of decent prospects who all have a decent chance of breaking through for an NHL career. Lemieux, Baptiste, Fasching, Carrier, Compher, Larsson, Bailey, Karabacek, Ruhwedel, Ullmark, Makarov, Johansson - and that's just listing some of the better prospects. Let's say that 75% of that group of players busts out and never makes the NHL. That leaves three players from that group who make it. That's 10.
So even being fairly conservative and assuming that lots of guys will bust out, that's still a likely scenario of maybe 10 NHLers acquired from the draft in just a few years' drafts. That's a pretty rapid rebuild.
FamilyGuy716
Registered User
The team you saw last night will not be the team you see in 2-3 years. The only players on the roster 2-3 years from now (who played last night) will be...
Girgensons
Ennis
Moulson (maybe)
DesLauriers (maybe)
Myers
Ristolainen
One other thing, Myers and Risto scored last night.
Foligno and Zadorov didn't play last night but will be on future roster
Next year we add...
McEichel (hopefully)
Reinhart
Grigorenko
Armia
Pysyk
That's 5 1st rounders we add to the lineup!!!!
And we have about 10,000 other prospects coming on in 2-3 years that will fill in the holes or can be used for trades. Add in a high profile F/A and we should be all set in about 3 years.
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The real difference is that the Sabres had actually started to acquire draft picks and assets before they hit bottom whereas the Oilers flaw is they recognized their impending doom too late and were still shipping out assets when they should have been trying to get more. This results in them having to start adding everything at once. Guess what, their D are right on track. Marincin could probably play if it were entirely based on merit, he was drafted the same year as Hall, Klefbom drafted in the 2nd year looks pretty solid out there, Nurse is likely there next season... It just takes those guys longer to develop and unfortunately for Edmonton they didn't realize things were in a dire situation until it was too late and they had squandered too many assets prior to finishing last. Then the assets they did have were managed poorly by Tambellini who quite frankly sucked at making trades.
stokes84
Registered User
Why don't you?Not all the Sabres prospects will pan out. Obviously.
The point is, the Sabres have accumulated so many quality prospects from a massive number of high round picks that they don't all have to pan out.
Girgensons, Ristolainen, and Zadorov are already NHLers - that's already 3 for 3.
Sam Reinhart and whoever the Sabres pick first in this draft (almost certain at this point to be McDavid, Eichel, or Hanifin) are both slam-dunk 100% to be NHLers. That's 5.
Armia, Grigorenko, Pysyk, and McCabe are each more likely than not to make the NHL. But let's be conservative and say that two of those four bust and only two of them make it. That's 7.
After that you have a large group of decent prospects who all have a decent chance of breaking through for an NHL career. Lemieux, Baptiste, Fasching, Carrier, Compher, Larsson, Bailey, Karabacek, Ruhwedel, Ullmark, Makarov, Johansson - and that's just listing some of the better prospects. Let's say that 75% of that group of players busts out and never makes the NHL. That leaves three players from that group who make it. That's 10.
So even being fairly conservative and assuming that lots of guys will bust out, that's still a likely scenario of maybe 10 NHLers acquired from the draft in just a few years' drafts. That's a pretty rapid rebuild.
NHL players are nice, but we need difference makers. I think we can pencil in McEichel as a difference maker. Probably Reinhart too. Girgensons is a good third line center, but a difference maker? Maybe. Risto and Zadorov are maybe's also. After that, it gets dicey. Pysyk will be a good player, but probably not a difference maker. Armia and Grigorenko? Same thing probably. So much depends on development. It's just impossible to predict.
Beerz
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I am the Liquor
ABK
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29 other teams would love to have him on their team including yours. Quite frankly you know very little about the player.
stokes84
Registered User
Because things remain static, right? He was injured before Traverse City and has taken a pretty big step back this year. If none of that happened, maybe he would have had a shot, like Duclair. But that's not how things worked out and now there is some legitimate concern about how he's coming along.
NHL players are nice, but we need difference makers. I think we can pencil in McEichel as a difference maker. Probably Reinhart too. Girgensons is a good third line center, but a difference maker? Maybe. Risto and Zadorov are maybe's also. After that, it gets dicey. Pysyk will be a good player, but probably not a difference maker. Armia and Grigorenko? Same thing probably. So much depends on development. It's just impossible to predict.
I have. But you can't recognize a proper analysis. If I really have to show you why the Sabres pool is richer than the Oilers had during their rebuild...
Yes I do have a clue who Reinhart is. I've seen him play plenty, in juniors and the NHL. He might prove me wrong. That's just my analysis right now.
I'd happy for you guys if he turns out to be what you think he will be. But I would temper my expectations a little.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
The Flames spent 1 year in the bottom 5, first time in franchise history. We were 'bad' for two years and missed the playoffs by a few points in the years leading up to it. Nothing at all like Buffalo.
MayDay
Registered User
We've been bad for two years now, and missed the playoffs by a few points in the two years prior to that. Last year was the first bottom 3 finish in over a quarter-century.
How is that "nothing at all alike"?
MayDay
Registered User
That's a lie. He's played only 9 games in the NHL, and had limited ice time in those games.
No one has "seen him play plenty" in the NHL, because he's hardly had a cup of coffee so far in the NHL.
Well maybe I should have worded it better. I've seen play plenty between juniors and the NHL. Happy?
