Why the Sabres won't end up like the Oilers

[MessierII]

Really? Why? That sucks.


Curtis Hamilton never was better than Baptiste. I don't think you know who Baptiste is. But it's not only Baptiste.

Armia,Fasching,Compher,Lemieux,Bailey,Pysyk,Grigorenko,Armia,Larsson,McCabe and Carrier just to name those off top of my head are the non top end guys (Zads,Risto,Reinhart) that can be dealt. The Oilers NEVER had that depth of assets.

Hamilton actually made the world junior team.

 

[Church of Toews*]

Some people need to get off their high horse. This Sabres team is literally one of the worst anyone here has ever seen. Before saying they won't end up like the oilers you better be damn sure they don't actually end up like the oilers. two consecutive years as the worst team in the league is how it started in edmonton too. Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

The Difference is Edmonton has drafted in the top 10 and have been horrible for 8 or so years thats hilariously awful. Id honestly take the current Sabres over the current Oilers in a 7 game series. Buffalo has done sensible drafting outside of the top 10 edmonton hasn't outside of eberle how many oilers prospects drafted out of the top 10 even played a game yet.

The Flames are a also miles ahead of the oilers and they only started in 2013 Edmonton is just bad on so many levels

 

[ZeroPT*]

Hamilton actually made the world junior team.

okay..
The WJC isn't really a great way to judge anything. If that's what we want to go..

Larsson captained sweden
McCabe captained USA and was a first team all star
Ristolainen scored the GWG and was a first team all star
Zads was a first team all Star

It's just a 7 game tournament.

 

[Voight]

Sabres are helping "build" the rebuild blueprint, much like LA and Chicago did. Draft good defensemen as much as you draft good forwards and go BPA because it usually works. Even draft or develop a goalie here and there, or even pick one up for beans (Neuvrith). Take chances and add veterans (Moulson, Gorges, Gionta) to mix in with the youth.

Sabres will make the playoffs before Edmonton does and I am completely serious and sober.

 

[ZeroPT*]

The reason why I think Buffalo's rebuild will be shorter than most anticipate is because of the way they picked their guys. They're going to draft that big name franchise superstar LAST.

Hall was the Oilers first top pick.
Tavares was the Isles first top pick

Kane was the Hawks LAST pick. Doughty was the 2nd last pick they had.

Buffalo drafted the surrounding core and now they're going to add a legit superstar prospect. Wether it's Eichel,McDavid or even Marner/Strome. They made sure the 2015 pick is gravy. That and they have stockpiled 1st and 2nds like no other club in history and have added a GM that handled franchise changing drafts for his club (Getz/Perry in Anaheim, Karlsson in Ottawa).

 

[DayTripper]

The ones who really need to get off their high horses are the fans of teams that have been bad for YEARS, and have finally turned it around in the last couple years due to their plethora of high draft picks maturing, suddenly looking down their noses and lecturing EDM and BUF fans about their "losing culture" and their "shameful tanking."

(I'm looking at you, Isles, Bolts, and Flames fans.)

Which high picks are playing for the Flames this year? Monahan at 6th overall is the only one...

 

[CanadienShark]

Yep. I'll quote an old post of mine from a different thread:

I've said this before but I'll say it again since nobody has mentioned it in this thread: Edmonton's biggest problem is that their drafting after the first round has been really sucky. Everybody is so focused on the top first round picks, but you can't be successful if you don't draft quality players in later rounds. For example:

LA: Toffoli (2); Vey (4); Nolan (7); Voynov (2); Simmonds (2); Martinez (4); King (4); Quick (3)
Blackhawks: Saad (2); Shaw (5); Pirri (2); Kruger (5); Hjalmarsson (4)
Boston: Lucic (2); Marchand (3); Sobotka (4); Versteeg (5); Bergeron (2)
Montreal: Gallagher (5); Subban (2); Latendresse (2); D'Agostini (6); Kostitsyn (7); Emelin (3); Grabovski (5); Streit (9); Lapierre (2); Plekanec (3); Ribeiro (2); Beauchemin (3); Markov (6); Ryder (8)

Who has Edmonton drafted after the 1st round?
​

SJ isn't bad either.

Vlasic, Stalock, J. McGinn, Bonino, Braun, Wingels, Demers, Nieto, (soon to be Tierney)

 

[ZeroPT*]

Which high picks are playing for the Flames this year? Monahan at 6th overall is the only one...

If we're limiting it to high picks on the roster the Sabres only have Ristolainen. The rest on the roster were mid teen picks.

 

[Blue And Orange]

An article isn't necessary to explain why the Sabers won't end up like the Oilers.

This video sums it up pretty well

 

[DayTripper]

If we're limiting it to high picks on the roster the Sabres only have Ristolainen. The rest on the roster were mid teen picks.

But the Sabres haven't "turned things around" yet.

 

[McArthur]

okay..
The WJC isn't really a great way to judge anything. If that's what we want to go..

Larsson captained sweden
McCabe captained USA and was a first team all star
Ristolainen scored the GWG and was a first team all star
Zads was a first team all Star

It's just a 7 game tournament.

I'd like to point out that none of those players are Canadian. Curtis Hamilton played "meat and potatoes/sutter" hockey on team Canada. I'm not high on Curtis Hamilton, with added speed/strength, might impact the NHL someday on a big stage. all in all, figured i'd homer a post in. lol

I like the argument, and frankly the only fail I see in Buffalo was watching Lindy Ruff walk out the door. Moulson still plays in Buffalo, Vanek (no surprise) plays in Minnesota this year. Not sure what happened with Klesla, and Chris Stewart appears to be a skating cancer. But I like that they have drafted from the blue line forward.

In Edmonton, we had the chance with Ryan Murray, and Yakupov was a Darryl Katz decision.
2011 was RNH/Landeskog/Huberdeau/Larsson, Larsson being the only defenseman, was passed over by 2 other teams for good reason.
2010, Erik Gudbranson taken 3rd overall in the Taylor/Tyler sweepstakes by Florida... personally I wanted Seguin.
2009, MPS was taken before de Haan/Ellis/Kulikov, Kulikov taken last of the 3 defensemen. we still have a first round pick after trading a second pick too...
2008, We got Eberle
2007, Gagner... Shattenkirk and McDonagh went 12/14 overall
2006, traded for Roloson, almost won a Stanley cup.
2005, Cogliano in the lottery draft, McQuaid goes late 2nd round, Letang goes early 3rd round.

Management in Edmonton looked like hero's in 2006. Truth be told, Stoll and Torres had a great lockout season in the AHL, 2005-06 had a really low cap. Edmonton was in a great place to capitalize. Since, agents have used people like Kevin Lowe to set the price on overpayed hockey players. Toronto saved our franchise with signing Clarkson. Buffalo saved our franchise with signing Vanek. Even Michael Nylander refused to sign in Edmonton. Dany Heatley would rather play in the AHL and ride a bus than play for Edmonton... lol. that management has stemmed into coaching, not that coaching was a huge problem to begin with.

MacTavish was thrown under the bus by "superstars" that either play in the AHL now or not at all.
Renney who now helps in Detroit for fun, was fired for refusing to over play young draft picks.
Kruger just spoke a different language that MacTavish. Kruger likes a 1-3-1.
Eakins... swarm needed bigger bodies, honeymoon should have been over after a season. Destroyed a good powerplay. Oiler fans were pissed they didn't call up Todd Nelson sooner.
Todd Nelson... Oilers now have a winning record, With MacTavish finding players that fit. in a year and a half, 60% of the roster is a MacTavish roster. but still... thank you Toronto for signing Clarkson.

Here is Edmonton, we have ad campaigns to fire Kevin Lowe. Rumor is he tried to quit and Katz talked him out of it. Ryan Murray was overlooked by Katz. If it takes a few bad decisions to keep his opinions to himself... he's the owner - please learn quickly. However, we have always had the team that good players leave. Kevin Lowe traded Ryan Smyth because both parties were $100,000/year apart. That is how classy Kevin Lowe is... trade the guy that was copper and blue and wanted to stay. the guy that would get a no trade clause so that he could say "if you want to trade me, it better be to Edmonton". We don't have a drafting problem. We no longer have a coaching/development problem.

We have a drug dealer who (god bless his heart) is spending a lot of money to make Edmonton a better place, and saved our team, who now has his favorite players on speed dial. and good on him. tbh, yakupov is very young, and appears to be improving. Time will tell. If we had a problem, I would say we have a stigma problem throughout the NHLPA. I don't know how you get rid of that, but I hope eventually winning will help. But it was a stigma that come at the end of '06 when Pronger left, and all rentals didn't re-sign. I don't know what happened, but that stuff doesn't "just happen"

 

[Bank Shot]

Sabres are helping "build" the rebuild blueprint, much like LA and Chicago did. Draft good defensemen as much as you draft good forwards and go BPA because it usually works. Even draft or develop a goalie here and there, or even pick one up for beans (Neuvrith). Take chances and add veterans (Moulson, Gorges, Gionta) to mix in with the youth.

Sabres will make the playoffs before Edmonton does and I am completely serious and sober.

If the Sabres are doing so well at their rebuild, then why is this year's team way worse then any team the Oilers ever put on the ice?

LA and Chicago were never close to being as bad as Buffalo is this year.

Buffalo is getting outshot by 12 shots per game! That's historically putrid.

Even if they add McEichel, the Sabres will be terrible next season barring a miracle.

Buffalo definitely has more in common with the Oilers rebuild than Chicago or LA.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

If the Sabres are doing so well at their rebuild, then why is this year's team way worse then any team the Oilers ever put on the ice?

LA and Chicago were never close to being as bad as Buffalo is this year.

Buffalo is getting outshot by 12 shots per game! That's historically putrid.

Even if they add McEichel, the Sabres will be terrible next season barring a miracle.

Buffalo definitely has more in common with the Oilers rebuild than Chicago or LA.

Basically the reason why they're still so putrid is its really only 1.5 years in the rebuild. 2013 they sold Pommers, last year they moved Vanek, Miller, Moulson, McCormick, Ehrhoff etc. This year they'll move Stafford, Stewart, Mitchell etc as the tear down. Murray also conveniently neglected to acquire any players to drive possession
as right now there's really only Risto, Myers and Girgs with that ability. Shedding the rest of the vets, promoting players like Grigs and Reinhart while adding a few quality vets will do wonders for the team.

You have to remember Risto in 2013 was their highest pick at 8 before Reinhart last season. Murray was on the radio the last couple days saying they'll be competitive next year as the tear down will be over and it'll be time to rebuild.

As for the LA/Chi similarities people are harping on, is that Buffalo has focused on defense and centers with their last few top picks so they have 2 young d in Zads / Risto that look very promising with 1st pairing potential. They also have 3 young defensively responsible centers in Girgs, Grigs and Reinhart.

This off-season is when they'll add the shiny piece in McEichel to hopefully be that game changing #1 center. This isn't to say that Reinhart doesn't have #1 potential, but would you rather have a RNH or a Crosby/Getzlaf as the capstone of your top line?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Shocker. If the Oilers had a competent management, they'd probably have a similar record to the Flames. It all starts up top, and that's why the Oilers will continue to fail until that is changed.

Exactly. You don't need an elaborate article to figure out why no team will end up like the Oilers. I mean the ineptitude of their hiring in management is comical. It's like, pick the biggest idiot, hire them on the Oilers and give them power to do whatever.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If the Sabres are doing so well at their rebuild, then why is this year's team way worse then any team the Oilers ever put on the ice?

LA and Chicago were never close to being as bad as Buffalo is this year.

Buffalo is getting outshot by 12 shots per game! That's historically putrid.

Even if they add McEichel, the Sabres will be terrible next season barring a miracle.

Buffalo definitely has more in common with the Oilers rebuild than Chicago or LA.

It's one horrible year for the Sabres vs what, a decade of it for the Oilers? For the Sabres to get that bad, they need a decade of that kind of crap. They have a great owner in place in Buffalo, he's fixing the previous problems by hiring the right people and giving them the support they need financially.

What more can you ask for? If the Oilers had an owner that truly cared, they'd be out of the bottom of the well.

 

[Bank Shot]

It's one horrible year for the Sabres vs what, a decade of it for the Oilers? For the Sabres to get that bad, they need a decade of that kind of crap. They have a great owner in place in Buffalo, he's fixing the previous problems by hiring the right people and giving them the support they need financially.

What more can you ask for? If the Oilers had an owner that truly cared, they'd be out of the bottom of the well.

One horrible year?

This will be the second straight last place finish and the 4th consecutive year out of the playoffs.

Buffalo isn't going to go from historically bad to playoffs next year. Count on them to be terrible for at least a couple of more seasons.

I'd be surprised if Buffalo breaks the non playoff streak before 6 seasons out. If things don't go as expected it could be longer.

 

[Bank Shot]

You have to remember Risto in 2013 was their highest pick at 8 before Reinhart last season. Murray was on the radio the last couple days saying they'll be competitive next year as the tear down will be over and it'll be time to rebuild.

I don't believe it's possible to go from being the worst team most of us have ever seen play hockey to competitive in one off season.

Even Pittsburgh and Washington finished 29th and 27th overall after adding Crosby and Ovechkin, and its yet to be seen if McEichel will have anywhere near that type of impact.

Sounds like something to sell the fans to me.

 

[MattMartin]

The article fails to address the single biggest (eventual) parallel: Culture, in particular the losing culture that develops after years in the basement.

As a Islander fan, I agree with this. It still doesn't happen overnight. Pittsburgh was forunate it did for them. Anyone thinking they will be a juggernaut in the next few seasons because of the last two drafts might want to temper expectations. Now I'm not saying that they can't turn it around very quickly, I guess we shall see.

I think we've heard this about every team that's came close to a rebuild since the Oilers started sucking.

Ottawa's "0 year rebuild" and Colorado's run last year had everyone talking about how they did it the right way. Sure, they didn't end up like the Oilers, but I don't think there's many teams out there clamoring to switch spots with them.

It's definitely too early to say how Buffalo will end up.

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Tim Murray and their draft team alone will be a huge reason why Buff are much better off than EDM ainec..

Exactly. It starts at the top for me. Have waaaaaay more confidence in Murray and company than Lowe and company.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Sabres loaded up on draft picks. Oilers didn't.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Considering Buffalo already has the pieces on D (at least on paper) next year could be like 07-08 was for the Hawks when they add Jack Eichel (let's say) and Sam Reinhart as rookies. People forget that they won't just be adding one stud rookie to the roster. Reinhart is a guy with sky high potential. He's gonna be the next Toews imo.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Curtis Hamilton was a better prospect than Baptiste.

He hit the AHL and disappeared.

Happens to countless prospects.

For a prospect to have any real value they at least need to show well in the AHL.

And buffalo's made a crap ton of 1st and 2nd round draft picks lately so even though some of them will bust it would take an incredible amount of bad luck for them all to bust.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Remains to be seen how the players pan out.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

No, you don't. You build a winning team by drafting BPA regardless of what position they're in. The best players TEND to be centres because they tend to play centre growing up. Good centres are much more common than good wingers so if your team doesn't have good centres it is probably a terrible team...that doesn't make centres more valuable than wingers. That's a very important distinction that people seem to forget on HF. You can draft centre after centre and not have a good team.

Players like Hossa, Kane, Brown, Lucic, etc.. were just as pivotal to championships as other players. Would the Avs have been better off taking Larsson or Huberdeau over Landeskog??

Huberdeau was a winger when he was drafted. They had him listed wrong.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Considering Buffalo already has the pieces on D (at least on paper) next year could be like 07-08 was for the Hawks when they add Jack Eichel (let's say) and Sam Reinhart as rookies. People forget that they won't just be adding one stud rookie to the roster. Reinhart is a guy with sky high potential. He's gonna be the next Toews imo.

1. He can't skate like Toews.

2. He's not as strong as Toews.

3. He doesn't have the hands Toews has.