Buffalo has the assets to trade for help to solidify their young players. Edmonton never had that. Edmonton basically had the guys they drafted 1st overall, Eberle and one or two other guys they hit on... in a TEN YEAR period. Even outside of Buffalo's well known assets they could deal a guy like Baptiste, McCabe, Compher + picks for immediate help. Edmonton NEVER had that luxury.
Why the Sabres won't end up like the Oilers
- Thread starter Johnnydrama21
- Start date
"Touted as" and "is" are completely different if my English serves me right. Just a heads up.
Calgary has been pretty decent since the first lockout (avg draft position ~15) so I their fans can smack talk all they like. The hypocrisy from fans of teams with multiple top 3 and top 5 picks over the past ten years, when ranting about the rebuild, is rather droll.
A poster referenced me that wasn't true. So I had to correct him. Was that against board policy?
Snippit
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2012
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Eichel
Reinhart
Girgensons
That could be the center depth in a few years.
Myers-Ristolainen
Zadorov-Pysyk
That could be the defensive core.
Some nice building blocks for sure. The real challenge is making sure all of these guys develop properly. After this year, the rebuild is over and it'll be time to start trying to become competitive again.
Reinhart
Girgensons
That could be the center depth in a few years.
Myers-Ristolainen
Zadorov-Pysyk
That could be the defensive core.
Some nice building blocks for sure. The real challenge is making sure all of these guys develop properly. After this year, the rebuild is over and it'll be time to start trying to become competitive again.
McDNicks17
Moderator
I wouldn't count those eggs before they hatch.
The Oilers had a handful of Baptistes and Comphers during that time that amounted to nothing.
Read the first quote from you I posted. Read the second.
Look up My Fair Lady. Get the joke.
They do not have to amount to anything as long as they are valued by other teams as prospects. The premise is to trade futures for proven players.
The thing is, I could see the Oilers having a very quick rise to the top if they make the right moves. Kind of like the Islanders. Their youngsters will mature and add in a couple deft free agent signings and this thread may be laughed at in a year or two.
I hope so for Oilers fans.
I hope so for Oilers fans.
They did not. The Canadian media machine was able to make guys like Omark seem legit but Edmonton never had organizational depth until last year's draft.
Still you're missing the point. It's not that Buffalo's prospects will all turn out great. It's that Tim Murray is willing to trade some of them for established players because he's said many times that's what he plans on doing.
The only player they had of that ilk was Rieder and he got dealt for scraps
The Oilers also had Tambellini. The only thing he did was go to the draft lottery and take 20 minutes to announce a selection.
DetBigWangs
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2009
- 2,215
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Wrong. "Winning culture" and "losing culture" exists. It's the same in hockey as in any other human endeavor. Does your boss go around yelling at people then sitting down for 8 hours of candy crush? That's losing culture. Is he dialed into ever facet of the company and can field any question? That's winning culture. Are the employees held accountable to the same standard as good boss? That's winning culture. Do they try to shift blame for everything that goes wrong? Losing culture.
BinCookin
Registered User
I wouldn't take that kind of talk too seriously.
I mean realistically GM's can only do 2 different things.
0) trade player x for player y of equal value (that rarely happens)
1) trade "young" players/prospects for more established players when the team is in a win now mode. Technically they are sacrificing the future.
2) trade established players for young players and prospects, sacrifice strength now, for increased future strength.
I mean I remember Buffalo as having a wicked team a while back (Vanek, Briere, Drury, Roy, Pominville) that was the year they did really well. Then they got poached in FA. It gutted the team. Then they slowly slipped into being bad. Then they got an owner who tried to buy players to make them good again. Finally once that failed too, they realized they needed to get draft picks and actually create good players themselves. Its just sorta how things go.
In Toronto they have enough money they have been believing they could buy their way out of problems for alot longer than teams like EDM, and BUF. So they are delaying the inevitable.
EDM never really "planned" to tank at first. They were shunned by FA's and even their offer sheets were matched. Their prospects did poorly, and they slipped. Their rebuild is going poorly because they drafted no D-men. Its a huge mistake.
None of these teams are tanking per say. But when you double down on a good idea: Sell assets now (going to UFA) to get some picks etc. Then that could be taken as "being bad on purpose" mostly its being smart. The only few teams that are "good" and didnt totally become crappy first are: Det, Bos.... Anyone else??
Cawz
Registered User
I actually like it. Its a time saver, since you now know which people here arent worth the effort of having a hockey discussion with. Anyone who uses that term isnt worth discussing hockey with.
BinCookin
Registered User
You can use any word you want. It means the same thing. Focusing on prospects means ideally weakening your team to place as poorly as possible.
MayDay
Registered User
But no one here knows what the culture is inside of NHL locker rooms, and anyone who pretends to know is full of it.
People just look at a team that's bad and diagnose it as having a "losing culture." It's just a way some people like to get an extra dig in an organization they don't like, by making a sort of baseless claim that can't be proven or disproven in any way.
I hear a lot of this sort of thing on HFBoards:
"My team was bad for years and collected a lot of high picks because they lacked talent/had cap issues/other excuses but they had a good attitude, but your team is bad because it has a losing culture and is too accepting of losses."
It's nonsense.
Very true.
In a sense, yeah. But I would still disagree with you. "Tanking" just has such a negative connotation that goes with it.
Cawz
Registered User
No it doesnt. Focusing on prospects means hoping the prospects step up. If they do, you are re-building the right way. If they dont, you are tanking. At least in the eyes of the clueless.
The Sabres leading goal-scorers are older than the Flames leading goal-scores. So are the Flames not focusing on prospects then, since one is a rookie and one is a sophomore? Someone should tell them they are not tanking very well...
The Nuge
Some say…
He was talking about years ago. And Rieder was dealt because he was going to go back into the draft if he wasn't dealt to the Coyotes
McDNicks17
Moderator
Curtis Hamilton was a better prospect than Baptiste.
He hit the AHL and disappeared.
Happens to countless prospects.
For a prospect to have any real value they at least need to show well in the AHL.
Mc5RingsAndABeer
5-14-6-1
- May 25, 2011
- 20,184
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No, you don't. You build a winning team by drafting BPA regardless of what position they're in. The best players TEND to be centres because they tend to play centre growing up. Good centres are much more common than good wingers so if your team doesn't have good centres it is probably a terrible team...that doesn't make centres more valuable than wingers. That's a very important distinction that people seem to forget on HF. You can draft centre after centre and not have a good team.
Players like Hossa, Kane, Brown, Lucic, etc.. were just as pivotal to championships as other players. Would the Avs have been better off taking Larsson or Huberdeau over Landeskog??
Jacob582
Registered User
- Oct 16, 2012
- 10,155
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I agree with this. Give them Rinne at the start of this season and they would be a playoff team.
Edit: They needed a center too!!
Really? Why? That sucks.
Curtis Hamilton never was better than Baptiste. I don't think you know who Baptiste is. But it's not only Baptiste.
Armia,Fasching,Compher,Lemieux,Bailey,Pysyk,Grigorenko,Armia,Larsson,McCabe and Carrier just to name those off top of my head are the non top end guys (Zads,Risto,Reinhart) that can be dealt. The Oilers NEVER had that depth of assets.
