Why the Sabres won't end up like the Oilers

[Afinogretzky]

lol this thread is absolutely horrible.

Panther fan taking snipes at Reinhart.

Flames fan offering almighty wisdom regarding premature optimism.

Random fan with the "UHH HEY DUFUSES THE SABRES ARE THE WORST RIGHT NOW!!"

but yea, let's talk more about how the Sabres and Oilers had similar depth after only one of these teams had 17 1st/2nd rounders in 4 years.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

lol this thread is absolutely horrible.

Panther fan taking snipes at Reinhart.

Flames fan offering almighty wisdom regarding premature optimism.

Random fan with the "UHH HEY DUFUSES THE SABRES ARE THE WORST RIGHT NOW!!"

but yea, let's talk more about how the Sabres and Oilers had similar depth after only one of these teams had 17 1st/2nd rounders in 4 years.

What snipe? An honest opinion.
Everyone gets critiqued. Everyone has differing opinions. Even Crosby gets critiqued, it happens to everyone.

 

[stokes84]

I have. But you can't recognize a proper analysis. If I really have to show you why the Sabres pool is richer than the Oilers had during their rebuild...

If listing off a bunch of prospects that you are high on is proper analysis, then congratulations.

Meanwhile, it appears you don't have a clue about the edmonton build. Between 2004 and 2007, Edmonton had 6 first round picks. None of them became impact players. Despite the high number of high picks, Jeff Petry, a 2nd rounder, is the only player still around from those drafts. They also had later round picks, like Omark, who had everyone excited just like some of our late round picks, that washed out.

In 2008, they hit a home run with a late 1st in Eberle.

In 2009, they had a top 10 pick. MPS. Swing and a miss. So now, that is 7 out of the last 8 first round picks, some of them very high, being misses. 2nd rounder, Anton Lander is an NHL player. But 4th rounder Toni Rajala is really interesting. He had 19 points in 6 WJC u-18 games, so people thought they had this stud, diamond in the rough. Can you imagine the hype if we had him with a late pick? What happened to him? Bust.

2010 was essentially the draft we just had. 1st overall followed by three 2nds. Well, Taylor Hall is pretty good. What happened to the three 2nds. Well, Martin Marincin will play in the NHL. Probably not be that good though. Other than that? Busts.

2011 yeilded RNH and Klefbom, after that it's probably too soon to make any statements.

But, as you can see, the Oilers had plenty to be excited about. But draft picks are lottery balls. And just like them, we could very easily miss on a lot more than you are willing to admit.

 

[BigBen]

The team you saw last night will not be the team you see in 2-3 years. The only players on the roster 2-3 years from now (who played last night) will be...

Girgensons
Ennis
Moulson (maybe)
DesLauriers (maybe)
Myers
Ristolainen

One other thing, Myers and Risto scored last night.

Foligno and Zadorov didn't play last night but will be on future roster

Next year we add...
McEichel (hopefully)
Reinhart
Grigorenko
Armia
Pysyk

That's 5 1st rounders we add to the lineup!!!!

And we have about 10,000 other prospects coming on in 2-3 years that will fill in the holes or can be used for trades. Add in a high profile F/A and we should be all set in about 3 years.

Sounds like what oiler fans say every year. A great team on paper doesn't always translate to success.

 

[obey86]

The team you saw last night will not be the team you see in 2-3 years. The only players on the roster 2-3 years from now (who played last night) will be...

Girgensons
Ennis
Moulson (maybe)
DesLauriers (maybe)
Myers
Ristolainen

One other thing, Myers and Risto scored last night.

Foligno and Zadorov didn't play last night but will be on future roster

Next year we add...
McEichel (hopefully)
Reinhart
Grigorenko
Armia
Pysyk

That's 5 1st rounders we add to the lineup!!!!

And we have about 10,000 other prospects coming on in 2-3 years that will fill in the holes or can be used for trades. Add in a high profile F/A and we should be all set in about 3 years.

Sounds similar to the the Minnesota Wild a few years ago.

Sign the 2 best free agents available (Parise, Suter) and with the best prospect pool in the NHL we will be a force in 2-3 years!!!!

 

[Moskau]

Sounds similar to the the Minnesota Wild a few years ago.

Sign the 2 best free agents available (Parise, Suter) and with the best prospect pool in the NHL we will be a force in 2-3 years!!!!

The Wild have a McDavid/Eichel level talent on their team? I know Granlund is close but...

 

[obey86]

The Wild have a McDavid/Eichel level talent on their team? I know Granlund is close but...

I'm more of less just speaking about the flawed though process of automatically assuming the team is going to be awesome in a few years. There are more teams with great prospects/prospect pools that end up doing nothing than end up being perennial contenders.

 

[Canovin]

Sounds similar to the the Minnesota Wild a few years ago.

Sign the 2 best free agents available (Parise, Suter) and with the best prospect pool in the NHL we will be a force in 2-3 years!!!!

And got Vanek, Pominville and Niederrieter for pretty much nothing. Still in the McEichel sweepstakes.

 

[MayDay]

I'm more of less just speaking about the flawed though process of automatically assuming the team is going to be awesome in a few years. There are more teams with great prospects/prospect pools that end up doing nothing than end up being perennial contenders.

There are no guarantees of course.

But the Sabres are far more likely to become a contender by going this route than by following their previous strategy of fighting to be on the playoff bubble each year and maybe getting bumped out in the first round. And then getting a draft pick in the 12-20 range every year. The only thing that is going to lead to is perpetual mediocrity.

 

[InfinityIggy]

We've been bad for two years now, and missed the playoffs by a few points in the two years prior to that. Last year was the first bottom 3 finish in over a quarter-century.

How is that "nothing at all alike"?

Read my post again, I am sure it will become evident to you.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

Sounds like what oiler fans say every year. A great team on paper doesn't always translate to success.

But the Oiler's haven't had the centers, defense or goaltending in place. You're just working on that now with your D and centers coming online. I give the Oiler's the same time frame as the Sabres. In 2-3 years when your young D and Draisaitl have some experience, you'll be ready as long as you get a decent goalie.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

Sounds similar to the the Minnesota Wild a few years ago.

Sign the 2 best free agents available (Parise, Suter) and with the best prospect pool in the NHL we will be a force in 2-3 years!!!!

I really can't figure out why you're not better. Do you have an explanation?

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I'd happy for you guys if he turns out to be what you think he will be. But I would temper my expectations a little.

Yes how dare Sabre fans be excited for Sam Reinhart who has tore up the WHL and WJCs (twice). Who has an amazing family nhl pedigree. Reinhart is a lock to be a 70+ point center.

And the Sabres being bad for years is just straight up false. The Sabres have the 4th best point % in NHL history . We have had 4 top 4 picks (counting this upcoming draft too btw) in our 45 year history. The haters can worry about their own team not taking advantage of 2 future hall of fame players in the same draft while the Sabres took advantage and ensured they are guaranteed one of them. I have no problem whatsoever saying that yes we are doing this on purpose and too bad. You can't win cups without top 5 picks on your team it's a fact.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Yes how dare Sabre fans be excited for Sam Reinhart who has tore up the WHL and WJCs (twice). Who has an amazing family nhl pedigree. Reinhart is a lock to be a 70+ point center.

And the Sabres being bad for years is just straight up false. The Sabres have the 4th best point % in NHL history . We have had 4 top 4 picks (counting this upcoming draft too btw) in our 45 year history. The haters can worry about their own team not taking advantage of 2 future hall of fame players in the same draft while the Sabres took advantage and ensured they are guaranteed one of them. I have no problem whatsoever saying that yes we are doing this on purpose and too bad. You can't win cups without top 5 picks on your team it's a fact.

That's fine. Is he a 70+ point center? Who knows. But I don't think he is a lock.

 

[Josepho]

Management is the only reason Edmonton is still bad.
Management (especially scouting) is the only reason Detroit is still good (Datsyuk kinda helps too).

Management is very important, and Edmonton will continue to be a miserable team if they don't get better management.

I'm not going to say that Edmonton would be a cup contender with better management (especially with that awful defensive core), but I guarantee you they wouldn't be one of the worst teams in the league.

 

[ZeroPT*]

If listing off a bunch of prospects that you are high on is proper analysis, then congratulations.

Meanwhile, it appears you don't have a clue about the edmonton build. Between 2004 and 2007, Edmonton had 6 first round picks. None of them became impact players. Despite the high number of high picks, Jeff Petry, a 2nd rounder, is the only player still around from those drafts. They also had later round picks, like Omark, who had everyone excited just like some of our late round picks, that washed out.

In 2008, they hit a home run with a late 1st in Eberle.

In 2009, they had a top 10 pick. MPS. Swing and a miss. So now, that is 7 out of the last 8 first round picks, some of them very high, being misses. 2nd rounder, Anton Lander is an NHL player. But 4th rounder Toni Rajala is really interesting. He had 19 points in 6 WJC u-18 games, so people thought they had this stud, diamond in the rough. Can you imagine the hype if we had him with a late pick? What happened to him? Bust.

2010 was essentially the draft we just had. 1st overall followed by three 2nds. Well, Taylor Hall is pretty good. What happened to the three 2nds. Well, Martin Marincin will play in the NHL. Probably not be that good though. Other than that? Busts.

2011 yeilded RNH and Klefbom, after that it's probably too soon to make any statements.

But, as you can see, the Oilers had plenty to be excited about. But draft picks are lottery balls. And just like them, we could very easily miss on a lot more than you are willing to admit.

Hey you finally actually made an analysis!

 

[wunderpanda]

This article is way too optimistic for me, writer lost me early when they said *middle of 12 game losing streak* after they lost 12 games. Middle of 24 makes sense, the rest of the article has the same attention to detail. Ignored the 3 coaches in 3 years and the 90s faces in Lafontaine (briefly and messy) and Nolan, the new GM who would have a different view of prospects than the guy who drafted them. Worst was assuming so many junior & ncaa players pan out. Nothing wrong with being hopeful but not much in this article I'd take seriously.

 

[Mr Positive]

It is pure arrogance to say that the Sabres' rebuild "won't" end up like the Oilers, rather than "probably won't"

Sorry to nitpick, but there's a world of difference there. It is easy for the Sabres to stand on a high horse when it comes to comparing the two, but only because the Sabres' rebuild is so young and expectations are rock bottom. The Oilers had this honeymoon phase too, were many losses but greater patience from the fans.

You can point to management, prospects, whatever, and they look great now but the only way to properly judge all of these structures is to see how they do once the honeymoon phase is over. It's just like that recent thread that actually praised Tambellini's cap manageement... on a rebuilding squad. Those were the easier years.

The narrative changes all the time. At one time the Oilers were roughly where the Sabres are now. We had a highly rated prospect pool around then too. It wasn't just the 1st overall either.

Nothing trumps a losing environment. It is a hole that you have to dig out of, and no structures you put in place can provide a simple laid out schedule for escaping out of it. Maybe Buffalo is better set up to deal with it than Edmonton was. We'll see. However, nothing you have built will change the fact that you are the worst team this league has seen in decades. You are quite easily worse than any of those Oiler squads. If you think that doesn't matter then you are setting yourselves up for disappointment. The loses will impede the development of your awesome prospect pool as well as the players you have today. It will paint everything in the worst possible light.

Anyway, like I said, "probably wont." I like a lot of things about the Buffalo rebuild and I think they learned a couple of things from ours, but it's still just another narrative based on hindsight.

 

[Jared Dunn]

They have solid veterans throughout the lineup and good young defencemen, and once they get Eichel or McDavid are going to have unbelievable scoring depth. That's 3/4 of Edmonton's major problems imo

 

[EichHart]

Oilers have not had nearly the amount of 1st and 2nd round picks like the Sabres have. They also have competent proven management with Murray as GM. Not to mention an owner willing to do absolutely anything to win a cup. (Will spend to max cap each year) The comparison is not even comparable.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

They have solid veterans throughout the lineup and good young defencemen, and once they get Eichel or McDavid are going to have unbelievable scoring depth. That's 3/4 of Edmonton's major problems imo

no they don't

 

[Aceonfire*]

I don't want to trash the Sabres but I do want to provide a realistic opinion.

If the Sabres are getting heavily out shot now. How will adding a bunch of kids in the coming years help that?

McEichel can't be expected to carry the entire team.

As an Oil fan, I know this to be true.

 

[Beerz]

I don't want to trash the Sabres but I do want to provide a realistic opinion.

If the Sabres are getting heavily out shot now. How will adding a bunch of kids in the coming years help that?

McEichel can't be expected to carry the entire team.

As an Oil fan, I know this to be true.

I believe Murray is going to be more than willing to deal prospects for more established talent as soon as next year... as well as our two later 1sts this year.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I don't want to trash the Sabres but I do want to provide a realistic opinion.

If the Sabres are getting heavily out shot now. How will adding a bunch of kids in the coming years help that?

McEichel can't be expected to carry the entire team.

As an Oil fan, I know this to be true.

Who says adding a bunch of kids will be the only thing we do?

A new coach, new system. Probable at this point
We're going to make trades for legitimate center. Probably a center and a D-man at least.
We might get two new goalies.
Our prospects will come in with a few years into development (Pysyk, Grigorenko, Reinhart, maybe Armia)

This team is going to be very very very different next season.

 

[Afinogretzky]

I don't want to trash the Sabres but I do want to provide a realistic opinion.

If the Sabres are getting heavily out shot now. How will adding a bunch of kids in the coming years help that?

McEichel can't be expected to carry the entire team.

As an Oil fan, I know this to be true.

Because the kids coming into the lineup, McEichel, Reinhart, Armia, Grigorenko, Pysyk, are all better than the trash we're currently rostering.

That was an easy one.