Why is it inconceivable for Matthews to be McDavid's equal?

[missionAvs]

Why do Oilers fans always make this so silly? Drai is not better then Matthews. You all tell us mcd is so much better than Matthews that they aren't even in the same tier! But then drai, who played with mcd, only outscored Matthews by what, 8 points? Get real, Drai is an awesome player, but he's no Matthews.

Just out of curiosity. A lot of Leafs fans claim that Matthews game is more built for the playoffs citing the fact that he scored 5 points in 6 games against the Presidents Trophy winning Caps to McDavids 9 in 13 against the former WC champs Sharks and Anaheim.

Would you say that Drai's game is even more so playoff geared with his top 10 points finish 16 points in 13 games performance or is he still sort of a byproduct of McDavid, even though they played separated in the playoffs?

BTW, I actually like all of these young studs. I'm just of the opinion that none of them are even close to McDavid. Matthews and Drai are both phenomenal young stars that IMO are almost interchangeable as far as talent is concerned. I honestly think that a case could be made for either as to which you really prefer.

 

[BlueBaron]

Dra is very hard to pin down because he flourished when split from McDavid in the playoffs but McDavid was getting the tougher assignments (rightfully so). Conversely regular season he flourished when put on McDavid's wing. So which is the real Dra? Maybe his playoffs were just the result of what he learned during the season all coming together.

Certainly big, strong guys who play in the playoffs are going to be less affected in an environment which is more physical and with more clutching and grabbing.

That said, I would not be too worried about McDavid's future playoff production but he does have something to prove.

Not going to say Dra is better suited to the playoffs than Matthews because he is so far ahead in development but he certainly was this year.

Dra does not compare well with Matthews because he has been around so much longer and only beat Matthews by 8 points playing with one of the best in the league. I doubt many people actually believe Dra will have the better career between the two just as few believe Matthews will have a better career than McDavid. But anything is possible.

 

[Rick74*]

Marner was also recovering from Mono and was playing injured.

I am aware of that.

 

[Bank Shot]

Extremely underwhelming? That's a rookie playing in his first playoffs against the presidents trophy Winners. How you could watch that video and not come away impressed or see OP's point is beyond me. It demonstrates either a lack of knowledge of the game or such blinding insecure homerism that I'm not sure why you'd even bother to engage in conversation in the first place.

Well the poster was raving about Matthews defensive game, and then posted a video with 30 seconds of defensive highlights.

That's basically nothing if you have 6 games to pull from.

I don't want to get into who is better defensively. I don't think it matters, because its pretty subjective, and the argument is usually only made because one player is completely outclassed offensively.

 

[ACC1224]

Well the poster was raving about Matthews defensive game, and then posted a video with 30 seconds of defensive highlights.

That's basically nothing if you have 6 games to pull from.

I don't want to get into who is better defensively. I don't think it matters, because its pretty subjective, and the argument is usually only made because one player is completely outclassed offensively.

Which isn't the case when discussing these two.

 

[Bank Shot]

Which isn't the case when discussing these two.

A 30 point difference suggests otherwise.

 

[daver]

Wouldn't be surprised if Matthews end with a playoff resume that's a lot closer than what their regular season resumes could look like.

 

[Bank Shot]

Wouldn't be surprised if Matthews end with a playoff resume that's a lot closer than what their regular season resumes could look like.

He's clutch like Jordan Eberle.

 

[captain cubicle]

Gotta love that after one series by Mathews hes already a playoff legend and after two series by McDavid hes apparently a playoff bum. This is then used to justify a 30 point scoring differential along with the tried and true method of citing defense by forwards to equalize points. I feel for Edmonton fans. This reminds me of the Datsyuk/Toews=Crosby nonsense back in the day.

Laine has a higher GPG and PPG than Mathews but since he plays in WPG instead of TOR no one has proposed something like this for him.

I thought as Crosby declines I would be rooting against McDavid as he took his place but at this point I hope he just goes on a tear so we can stop seeing these ridiculous narratives.

 

[BlueBaron]

I love how the minority opinion is always painted as the majority opinion to insult and discredit the entire fan base.

Luckily people with brains can see through this.

 

[MonarchFlames]

How is this thread still going on? Like Matthews is a great player and will be for years to come, but comparing him to the soon to be or already best player in the world is absurd.

 

[lawrence]

How is this thread still going on? Like Matthews is a great player and will be for years to come, but comparing him to the soon to be or already best player in the world is absurd.

Leafs fans are keeping it alive.


Funny how the last 2 mcdavid Matthews thread actually got locked up,due to lopsided ness. Now they want to keep this one alive. To have them in the Same conversation, they feel they are at the same level, despite very much the entire hockey world, even fans that don't follow the NHL are telling the, they are not the same level.

 

[Paralyzer]

How is this thread still going on? Like Matthews is a great player and will be for years to come, but comparing him to the soon to be or already best player in the world is absurd.

It's still going because one leaf fan had a little voice in his head that still calls out to him now and then that Matthews is vastly superior than McDavid so he has to embarrass the whole Leaf Nation with his notion of Matthews >> McDavid. In return the Leaf Nation has to come on here and say "no, no, no! We never said THAT. But....it's possible he could be better at goal scoring and being defensively...?" And that's where we are today.

Did I nail it?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Drai and McDavid had bad flu in first round, if you watched you would have known that. Drai was to leave a game because of it.

Drai is currently a better player overall then Matthews. Of course it will change, Drai just finished his 3rd year, Matthews his first, but last year Drai was better including playoffs.

They are both MUCH better passers and playmakers then Matthews, again try watching some games, you are embarrassing yourself.

Do not care how many times Hyman missed a scoring chance. If his teammates cashed in on McDavids absolutely prime scoring chances he gives them nightly, McDavid would have had over 500 points.

Wow, that's incredible. 500 points. I can't even begin to imagine that. I predicted before McDavid began his NHL career that he would go down in history as one of the greatest players of all time, behind 99 and 66 but possibly ahead of every other forward that has ever played the game. But 500 points! Holy crap, Gretzky and Lemieux aren't fit to carry this guys skates.

500 points! The HOF isn't enough for this guy, they're going to have to come up with something else. Hall of McDavid perhaps?

500 points! I just can't explain how impressed I am by this. Just wow!

Do I need to add that Matthews isn't on this level? 500 points, holy moley! I doubt Matthews even gets close to 300 points at his peak. 500!!!!!

 

[Paralyzer]

Wow, that's incredible. 500 points. I can't even begin to imagine that. I predicted before McDavid began his NHL career that he would go down in history as one of the greatest players of all time, behind 99 and 66 but possibly ahead of every other forward that has ever played the game. But 500 points! Holy crap, Gretzky and Lemieux aren't fit to carry this guys skates.

500 points! The HOF isn't enough for this guy, they're going to have to come up with something else. Hall of McDavid perhaps?

500 points! I just can't explain how impressed I am by this. Just wow!

Do I need to add that Matthews isn't on this level? 500 points, holy moley! I doubt Matthews even gets close to 300 points at his peak. 500!!!!!

Yeah, ok, 500 points is an over-exaggeration, That'd mean he'd have to get 5-6 points a night to get that high. Realistically I think he could have got 150 points if his teammates cashed in a bit more or McDavid shot it more. But anyways...

 

[Kamiccolo]

Quite the little rant LeafsforBabcock. You have anything to ask me specifically as it pertains to my post? You may disagree, but yes, Drasaitl is a better playmaker than Matthews at this point, has scored more points than Matthews at this point in the regular season and the playoffs and if you were watching post season hockey would know he was the Oilers best and one of the most physical players in the playoffs. There is nothing outrageous in saying they are on atleast the same tier. Give Matthews another season or 2, he may be as good as Draisaitl. But he isn't right now IMO.

Ah, deflection, your most common answer when you have no stats to back up your claim. Alright, I won't make you admit it, we can move on.

As for the bold, here is a good start.

For someone who is constantly preaching sample sizes, I would think you would know better here. Let's break this down...

He had 3 points in 6 games against the Sharks.

Then against the Ducks, he had a 4 point game and 5 point game. Do you not think that this series, a small sample size of 7 games, in which he had two unsustainable games, should be taken with a grain of salt?

Or, using your same logic, is Rielly now a #1 D after putting up 5 points in 6 games while playing nearly 30 minutes a night in a #1 D role?

Draisatl put up all his production in the regular season as a winger to McDavid. In fact, I believe it was you who argued that McDavid was a better playmaker than Matthews before citing Maroon going from a 20 point pace into almost PPG when he got to play with McDavid, and then him scoring over 40 points this year (Career high), yet Matthews couldn't do the same for Hyman (Even though you ignored he was also a rookie).

So I ask you then, if he can elevate a career 3rd liner to produce at a 2nd line pace, could he also not have a career 2nd liner produce at a first liner pace?

I am hopeful you will address my post and not deflect my points without addressing them like you normally do.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Ah, deflection, your most common answer when you have no stats to back up your claim. Alright, I won't make you admit it, we can move on.

As for the bold, here is a good start.

Look at their points totals. It's really not hard to do. The only advantage Matthews has, as was noted is in goal scoring. All other stats that matter favour Draisaitl. Draisaitl has more points and more assists. In the playoffs, and in the regular season. Tell me as a new neutral fan who was more impressive in the playoffs?

 

[Kamiccolo]

Look at their points totals. It's really not hard to do. The only advantage Matthews has, as was noted is in goal scoring. All other stats that matter favour Draisaitl. Draisaitl has more points and more assists. In the playoffs, and in the regular season. Tell me as a new neutral fan who was more impressive in the playoffs?

You managed to both not provide any stats to back up your claim, AND avoid answering what you specifically asked me to point out. Impressive.

 

[Voight]

McDavid is in another tier than Matthews

but

Draisatl who played wing for this player, is also in the same tier?

If Matthews played with McDavid he would score 60 goals last year. They are not close, and I am now done with this thread as it's only Oiler fans trolling now.

Nope. Matthews is a tier above Draisaitl.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You managed to both not provide any stats to back up your claim, AND avoid answering what you specifically asked me to point out. Impressive.

Okay if you really want me to post them since you are too lazy to look them up, but I suspect you knew them already. Here are 3 stats that matter where Draisaitl is better. He is a proven 77 points point Center, Matthews a 69 point Center. Playmaking he is better also 48 assists to 29. Playoff scoring. Draisaitl is better also. 16 playoff points to 5. Now are you going to answer who was better in the playoffs Leafsforbabcock?

Also, since this is a thread for McDavid and Matthews, please feel free to form an argument that Matthews is McDavid's equal. If you truly believe this.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Yeah the best answer I got was, "40 goals."

Don't get me wrong, that's impressive. McDavid did only get 30... while also adding more assists than Matthews had total points. What is so offensive about Matthews having to prove something before being heralded as "as good if not better" than McDavid? Isn't all we hear re: Crosby v McDavid is that McDavid has to prove that he's better beyond more than one season? Yet Matthews doesn't need to come close to McDavid's totals to be held in the same light?

Exactly. Matthews is an exceptional young player and had an excellent rookie season but the incessant comparisons and hypotheticals with McDavid are premature and farfetched while bordering on desperate to push a narrative that simply doesn't exist and will likely never exist outside of the Toronto bubble. There is no need to compare him to anybody else at this point in his career while he's still establishing himself in the league and forging his own identity. If he can put up 100 points next season, win an Art Ross, Hart and Lindsay, I doubt even Oiler fans would object to a thread comparing the two being made. But in terms of production and results, McDavid has outperformed him at every comparable level throughout their careers and until that changes this comparison is always going to be misguided.

There's also definitely a double standard when it comes to hypothetically projecting Matthews' progression and expecting it to be linear while assuming that McDavid will all of a sudden stagnate. In my opinion, McDavid widening the gap between them is just as likely as Matthews closing it. I wish more of the people making a concerted effort to portray McDavid as something that he's not (bad defensive player, a guy who will have trouble in the playoffs, horrible shot) would drop the silly inaccurate claims that couldn't be further from the truth in what I assume to be an attempt to make this comparison more palatable and actually watch him play live before trying to agitate Oilers fans in this thread as well.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

You're rapidly becoming one of my favourite posters. Really entertaining stuff. It is satire..... Right?


.............right?

Draisaitl is a better playmaker and passer than Matthews as of this moment.

Arguing otherwise is ridiculous.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Draisaitl is a better playmaker and passer than Matthews as of this moment.

Arguing otherwise is ridiculous.

No. It's not. And he's not. His most common linemate on the year was Zach Hyman, who had more high danger scoring chances than almost every player in the league. He simply couldn't bury. Draisaitl spent the majority of the year playing with McDavid. Totally comparable, man.

Matthews finally started to put up some assists nearing the end of the year when Babcock relented and gave him Nylander to work with. I could hardly believe my eyes when he started getting the odd secondary assist too. I suggest you watch some in depth videos of Matthews rather than drawing sweeping conclusions from a statline.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Just out of curiosity. A lot of Leafs fans claim that Matthews game is more built for the playoffs citing the fact that he scored 5 points in 6 games against the Presidents Trophy winning Caps to McDavids 9 in 13 against the former WC champs Sharks and Anaheim.

Would you say that Drai's game is even more so playoff geared with his top 10 points finish 16 points in 13 games performance or is he still sort of a byproduct of McDavid, even though they played separated in the playoffs?

BTW, I actually like all of these young studs. I'm just of the opinion that none of them are even close to McDavid. Matthews and Drai are both phenomenal young stars that IMO are almost interchangeable as far as talent is concerned. I honestly think that a case could be made for either as to which you really prefer.

You're very much in the minority on that. I'd put down everything I own that every single GM and coach In the league would take matthews over Draisaitl without a moment's hesitation. Every single time.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

No. It's not. And he's not. His most common linemate on the year was Zach Hyman, who had more high danger scoring chances than almost every player in the league. He simply couldn't bury. Draisaitl spent the majority of the year playing with McDavid. Totally comparable, man.

Matthews finally started to put up some assists nearing the end of the year when Babcock relented and gave him Nylander to work with. I could hardly believe my eyes when he started getting the odd secondary assist too. I suggest you watch some in depth videos of Matthews rather than drawing sweeping conclusions from a statline.

Take your own advice. If you'd watched an Oilers game (or even two perhaps) you would've noticed there were large stretches of the season where Draisaitl was the offensive catalyst on the team. Particularly at the end of November through the third week of December where he carried the McDavid line. Your comments in this thread referencing both McDavid and Draisaitl tells me you've seen barely more than highlight packages of both. Unfortunately those of us on the West Coast are awake when the Eastern teams play and are bombarded with their games, so we do actually catch them live.

Let's operate in reality instead of assumptions and hypotheticals, alright? The Hyman argument is stale and old and the same one could be made for a large number of players in the league including Draisaitl and McDavid who had linemates in Lucic and Eberle who curtailed their point totals as well.