Why is it inconceivable for Matthews to be McDavid's equal?

[TIGERCOOL]

Take your own advice. If you'd watched an Oilers game (or even two perhaps) you would've noticed there were large stretches of the season where Draisaitl was the offensive catalyst on the team. Particularly at the end of November through the third week of December where he carried the McDavid line. Your comments in this thread referencing both McDavid and Draisaitl tells me you've seen barely more than highlight packages of both. Unfortunately those of us on the West Coast are awake when the Eastern teams play and are bombarded with their games, so we do actually catch them live.

Let's operate in reality instead of assumptions and hypotheticals, alright? The Hyman argument is stale and old and the same one could be made for a large number of players in the league including Draisaitl and McDavid who had linemates in Lucic and Eberle who curtailed their point totals as well.

Really? Lucic and Eberle? Compared to Hyman? Talk about operating outside of reality. You also totally fail to acknowledge the effect that having McDavid on the ice has on the defence. Whether he's contributing points or not, he's drawing most of their attention. Matthews outproduced and stood out more than McDavid for stretches at the WHC, but I'd never have suggested it was because he was the better player. Playing with that kind of talent creates time and space for players who flourish with it like Draisaitl. Nylander benefits similarly when he plays with Matthews.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

The answer to the OP is simple: its only "inconceivable" to people who have convinced themselves it is so. Saying its "inconceivable" seems extremely naïve.

As for the Draisaitl talk; does it not seem odd to people who are arguing he is better than Matthews when they consider (a) whom their respective linemates were for the prevailing part of the season (b) one player was in his third year while the other was in his rookie season.

Moreover, Draisaitl's first TWO seasons combined are not even remotely close to Matthews'. It took him moving to the current 2nd best player in the world's wing to produce 11 less goals and eight more points than the rookie whom he is profoundly superior than......my lawd, your bias is showing, cover up.

 

[TBC]

Because nothing he's ever done at comparable points in their careers has measured up to McDavid and he's displayed nothing at the NHL level so far that would make any reasonable person think the decent sized gap between them will ever be closed.

McDavid does more things better. Simple as that. Better playmaker, better stickhandler, better skater, better two way player, better hockey IQ... Matthews has goal scoring on him, that's about it.

McDavid is not better defensively and is not better along the boards.

McDavid is better in most aspects offensively but it's his speed that really separates him.

Crosby and McDavid are on their own level for forwards and no one else really comes close other than Kane and that's really pushing it.

 

[Quiet Jack]

No. It's not. And he's not. His most common linemate on the year was Zach Hyman, who had more high danger scoring chances than almost every player in the league. He simply couldn't bury. Draisaitl spent the majority of the year playing with McDavid. Totally comparable, man.

Matthews finally started to put up some assists nearing the end of the year when Babcock relented and gave him Nylander to work with. I could hardly believe my eyes when he started getting the odd secondary assist too. I suggest you watch some in depth videos of Matthews rather than drawing sweeping conclusions from a statline.

I agree with you. If we add Matthews' almost assists to actual assists it would look a lot better.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

I agree with you. If we add Matthews' almost assists to actual assists it would look a lot better.

Man would I love to stick Hyman and a platoon of rookies on Draisaitl's wings for a year and see the results. Somehow I don't think you'd be so smug...

 

[missionAvs]

You're very much in the minority on that. I'd put down everything I own that every single GM and coach In the league would take matthews over Draisaitl without a moment's hesitation. Every single time.

That's pretty cool, I never actually argued for or against that haha. I merely stated that talent wise, they are pretty on par at the moment which according to regular season stats and playoff stats, I would say they are which makes them much more comparable to each other than to McDavid.

As to which forward I would choose to build around, I would probably take Matthews as well when taking into consideration age and first-year performance. Again though, I never argued against this notion so I'm not sure why you found it necessary to state that GM's around the league would as well.

 

[BakedYams]

McDavid is not better defensively and is not better along the boards.

McDavid is better in most aspects offensively but it's his speed that really separates him.

Crosby and McDavid are on their own level for forwards and no one else really comes close other than Kane and that's really pushing it.

McDavid is better defensively. Otherwise he wouldn't be on the PK. He's great at stripping pucks and sending the play north. His presence alone keeps defenders wary from chipping in on offense. Great speed, stickhandling, and hockey sense. And just for fun I'll even point out that he got more Selke votes than Kadri who is better defensively than Matthews.

 

[TBC]

McDavid is better defensively. Otherwise he wouldn't be on the PK. He's great at stripping pucks and sending the play north. His presence alone keeps defenders wary from chipping in on offense. Great speed, stickhandling, and hockey sense. And just for fun I'll even point out that he got more Selke votes than Kadri who is better defensively than Matthews.

oh boi.

 

[83to48]

oh boi.

Jeff O'Neill is that you?

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Man would I love to stick Hyman and a platoon of rookies on Draisaitl's wings for a year and see the results. Somehow I don't think you'd be so smug...

Generational players ala Crosby + McDavid make all the other players around themselves better. Whats with all the constant excuses and whining about Matthews teammates?

 

[Ninety7]

oh boi.

Everything he said was factual

 

[underdog]

Ya ok, he's as good as McDavid time for him to ask for 13 million a year.

 

[underdog]

Ya ok, he's as good as McDavid time for him to ask for 13 million a year.

I guess this argument dried up pretty fast once cap ramifications were brought up, lol

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Generational players ala Crosby + McDavid make all the other players around themselves better. Whats with all the constant excuses and whining about Matthews teammates?

When Maroon was playing on a line with Matthews at the Worlds, this same excuse was cited. Really, if you are a great player, you make other players better around you. Happens all the time in this league. Crosby for Kunitz, Tavares for Moulson, Getzlaf for Penner, and most recently McDavid for Maroon last year. If you are a true great player, one does not need
a linemates excuse. Great players prop up lesser players, not the other way around.

 

[Rick74*]

I guess this argument dried up pretty fast once cap ramifications were brought up, lol

You can have 14 mil McDavid, I'll just stick 4.5 mil Kadri on him to shut him down nightly.

 

[Bloomberg]

Hopefully the difference is more than 3 million in cap space

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Generational players ala Crosby + McDavid make all the other players around themselves better. Whats with all the constant excuses and whining about Matthews teammates?

You mean like how Matthews gave Hyman top 5 high danger scoring chances league wide? You know Matthews can't shoot the puck for the guy too, right? Only so much you can do when he shoots 5% on the year

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

You mean like how Matthews gave Hyman top 5 high danger scoring chances league wide? You know Matthews can't shoot the puck for the guy too, right? Only so much you can do when he shoots 5% on the year

Maybe lots of those chances just weren't as good as you think. Or maybe your coaching and management aren't either. Regardless my point still stands. Look at what McDavid did for Yakupov and what Yakupov did without McDavid.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Maybe lots of those chances just weren't as good as you think. Or maybe your coaching and management aren't either. Regardless my point still stands. Look at what McDavid did for Yakupov and what Yakupov did without McDavid.

Do you know what the term "high danger scoring chance" means? It means they were evaluated to be very good chances through analytics. By definition the chances were as good as I thought. And trust me, the eye test confirmed it. I'm not going to get into comparing Zach Hyman to a first overall talent, bust or not, because it's ridiculous.

 

[Seanaconda]

Man would I love to stick Hyman and a platoon of rookies on Draisaitl's wings for a year and see the results. Somehow I don't think you'd be so smug...

Sure give him a Nylander and a plug im sure he would be fine

 

[Seanaconda]

When Maroon was playing on a line with Matthews at the Worlds, this same excuse was cited. Really, if you are a great player, you make other players better around you. Happens all the time in this league. Crosby for Kunitz, Tavares for Moulson, Getzlaf for Penner, and most recently McDavid for Maroon last year. If you are a true great player, one does not need
a linemates excuse. Great players prop up lesser players, not the other way around.

Penner was good on the oilers tho. His best season was his 30 and 30 in edmonton . Idk who his center was tbh horcoff maybe? but I guess you could maybe credit hemsky?

Idk but he played one full season with Getzlaf and put up 45 points next year with edmonton he put up 47 next year he dropped to 30 something then went to 60 something the year after that so I wouldn't credit getz

 

[TT1]

Matthews' HERO chart is a joke compared to McDavid's.. and as everyone knows we evaluate players based on their HERO charts here.

I mean theres a post talking about Gardiner's HERO chart just below this thread, so i guess we can use the same metric to compare Matthews and McDavid?

Here we go:

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Sure give him a Nylander and a plug im sure he would be fine

Sure, you get Nylander about half time. But the first half of the year is the Nylander who was in Babcock's doghouse bouncing around checking lines and getting only spot starts with Matthews. Good luck building any momentum there. The other 50% of the time.you get Connor Brown, a third line rookie winger. Hyman you get 100% of the time, with offensive tools that would be considered middling in the AHL.

 

[La Masse]

How dare anybody compare a plug like a 40 goal rookie scorer to the best player of all-time.Mcdavid does everything better. Once his career is over he will be way up in front of guys like Gretzky. Mcdavid even cooks breakfast better then Matthews

 

[Sorry]

Crosby vs Ovechkin 2.0.

And even more annoying to attempt to read. You both have amazing young players. Why don't you worry about how to construct teams capable of winning the cup around these players? Arguing over their early careers is worthless.

McDavid is clearly the superior talent right now. But long term I'd say Matthews has just as bright of a future as McDavid. Matthews isn't based on speed as much as C-Mac. C-Mac is one injury away from losing the edge that puts his game on the level it is right now.