Toggle sidebar

Why is Holl still in the lineup??

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
notbias said:
Absolutely nothing? I'm more worried about him showing effort if no one else is. I wouldn't take him out of the game if he showed up and others didn't.



See you next game
Click to expand...
The only reason he showed that effort is because he knows that his job is on the line. He wasn’t hitting like that all season or even the last 5 years
 
He's our most steady and quickest D, best at outlet passes, most physical player, smartest player, an excellent fighter, has a great shot from the point, and is second only to JT at winning faceoffs.

(Keefe told me so himself.)
 
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."

1677846743850.png


1677846778767.png
 
kb said:
Probably to give Liljegren on off day after getting banged up last night.

No need to get worked up about it - this is exactly why they acquired this depth.
Click to expand...


You can't do that. Using calm reasoning and logic on an online hockey board, like wtf?
 
  • Like
Reactions: shortfuze
Holl on the season:

5v5 (He's played the most 5v5 minutes of any D on the Leafs this year):

Ozone start%: 38.74% (lowest on the team among regular D)
Shot differential: 52.58
xGF%: 52.79
Goal differential: 53.87
+/-: +14

Just D numbers:

Shots against/60: 26.11
Scoring Chances Against/60: 27.81
xGA/60: 2.43
Goals Against/60: 2.33

Considering he's also a good PKer and only makes 2 million, the insane takes about him don't even get close to matching his extremely solid numbers and value this season. Are these not good shutdown D numbers on a good team?

He does have his lapses and is going to get less responsibility going forward with the added depth so lets see how things shake out with the new pairings. Straight up replacing him with McCabe and getting futures with him seeing as he's into his 30s is always an option but the team might even keep him on as a 7th minimum if we lose a Gio/Brodie/McCabe/Lilly as we know he is a guy that can step in and be effective. I also wouldnt be shocked if he starts as the 4 in the playoffs though. He's been good this season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dekes For Days and The Iceman
Zybalto said:
Holl on the season:

5v5 (He's played the most 5v5 minutes of any D on the Leafs this year):

Ozone start%: 38.74% (lowest on the team among regular D)
Shot differential: 52.58
xGF%: 52.79
Goal differential: 53.87
+/-: +14

Just D numbers:

Shots against/60: 26.11
Scoring Chances Against/60: 27.81
xGA/60: 2.43
Goals Against/60: 2.33

Considering he's also a good PKer and only makes 2 million, the insane takes about him don't even get close to matching his extremely solid numbers and value this season. Are these not good shutdown D numbers on a good team?

He does have his lapses and is going to get less responsibility going forward with the added depth so lets see how things shake out with the new pairings. Straight up replacing him with McCabe and getting futures with him seeing as he's into his 30s is always an option but the team might even keep him on as a 7th minimum if we lose a Gio/Brodie/McCabe/Lilly as we know he is a guy that can step in and be effective. I also wouldnt be shocked if he starts as the 4 in the playoffs though. He's been good this season.
Click to expand...
What’s his “gliding by a goalie and not taking strides before and after a goal/60”?
 
Strange thread. If you have to ask why he's in the lineup you aren't paying very close attention to the team.
 
Holl is the latest installment of the team's whipping boy. There's always one. It's not enough to love certain players on a team, the fan wants to unite in hatred of another. To be a fan of a team is to fall in line with certain narratives.

Holl's not a bruiser, he's not an offensive dynamo. He's a modern defensive defenceman that angles his lanky body into keeping opponents to the outside. He starts the highest percentage of shifts in the defensive zone (17%) on the team and is an elite shot blocker (5.14 blocks/60). When he's performing at his best, he has proven over the years to be great at shutting down a team's best players. His 26 takeaways lead all Leafs defencemen before acquiring McCabe.

He is also prone to giving away the puck, leading the team with 35 defensive zone giveaways, something probably exacerbated by how often he's starting in the defensive zone. Still, giveaways are what limits his ability to play regular minutes in the top 4 and has seen him rotate in and out of the lineup.

Next season he'll definitely be gone, paving the way for Lily and Timmins
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zybalto and showtime8
He certainly is poorly coached. When he is the 2nd or 3rd man into the O zone because this is how he is coached it is ridiculous. He does not or should not play that 200 foot game. He is a 160 foot player. When he leaves that element he is gassed, out of position, weakened, stick checker.
But that is Keefe trying to fit a horse into a Ferrari. A lot like watching Ferrari (Nylander) play dman
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obo, 57 Years No Cup and Gilmour1996
mikeyz said:
Jesus f***ing Christ man. What does Keefe see in this guy??? Especially with the abundance of Defenseman currently on the team and all of them are ready to go.

It absolutely boggles my mind.
Click to expand...
He will be odd man out come playoffs so don't fret about it .. he is decent insurance to have around for a couple injuries on D in a long run .. i would try to unload him personally as I would rather use Benn/Timmer before Holl (if we could get a 2023 3rd rounder i would do it)

McCabe Brodie
Gio Lily
Rielly (PP) Schenn
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Iceman, 57 Years No Cup and ACC1224
Ouck Fttawa said:
What’s his “gliding by a goalie and not taking strides before and after a goal/60”?
Click to expand...

Your gonna have to ask the folks who obsessively look for anything wrong and find it every few games while completely ignoring any good plays made.

When a guy plays the least sheltered ozone minutes on your team and yet has great shot suppression numbers and is a +14, how did he get there? ....in a year when we went through a quarter of a season with half the D core on the DL and him being one of the rocks back there during a massive win streak.

I'm not even saying we should put him in a huge role in the playoffs, or even keep him if the price is right (although that applies to almost any player really), just that he's been an effective player for us this season.

I do have to admit that part of me wants him gone just so I don't have to listen to all the nonsense about him around here. Just look at this thread. I figure he looks like Jack Johnson out there or something the last few games but there he is with a 70%+ goal differential the last 3 games with lots of hits, a game-saving blocked shot and a scrap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dekes For Days
At worst he's a great 7 option who knows the system and is right handed. At his best he was playing good shut down minutes with Muzzin. Don't know what else you guys want. You need depth on D for the playoffs. If, hypothetically, Brodie and McCabe go down, or any other two. You want to play Timmins and Gustafsson against Tampa and Boston? FOH

Zybalto said:
Your gonna have to ask the folks who obsessively look for anything wrong and find it every few games while completely ignoring any good plays made.

When a guy plays the least sheltered ozone minutes on your team and yet has great shot suppression numbers and is a +14, how did he get there? ....in a year when we went through a quarter of a season with half the D core on the DL and him being one of the rocks back there during a massive win streak.

I'm not even saying we should put him in a huge role in the playoffs, or even keep him if the price is right (although that applies to almost any player really), just that he's been an effective player for us this season.

I do have to admit that part of me wants him gone just so I don't have to listen to all the nonsense about him around here. Just look at this thread. I figure he looks like Jack Johnson out there or something the last few games but there he is with a 70%+ goal differential the last 3 games with lots of hits, a game-saving blocked shot and a scrap.
Click to expand...
They'll find someone else. There always has to be a scapegoat to blame an entire loss on, a single depth player who's mere existence is preventing the Leafs from going 82-0
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zybalto
Leafed said:
Holl is the latest installment of the team's whipping boy. There's always one. It's not enough to love certain players on a team, the fan wants to unite in hatred of another. To be a fan of a team is to fall in line with certain narratives.

Holl's not a bruiser, he's not an offensive dynamo. He's a modern defensive defenceman that angles his lanky body into keeping opponents to the outside. He starts the highest percentage of shifts in the defensive zone (17%) on the team and is an elite shot blocker (5.14 blocks/60). When he's performing at his best, he has proven over the years to be great at shutting down a team's best players. His 26 takeaways lead all Leafs defencemen before acquiring McCabe.

He is also prone to giving away the puck, leading the team with 35 defensive zone giveaways, something probably exacerbated by how often he's starting in the defensive zone. Still, giveaways are what limits his ability to play regular minutes in the top 4 and has seen him rotate in and out of the lineup.

Next season he'll definitely be gone, paving the way for Lily and Timmins
Click to expand...


Even with the D zone giveaways, if you look at 5v5 rates (and eliminate all of the heavy PK minutes while taking into account Holl has played the most 5v5 minutes on the team), here is how it shakes out:

Most to least:

1. Sandin
2. Rielly
3. Liljegren
4. Holl
5. Gio
6. Brodie

All of Rielly, Liljegren and Sandin have been worse with the puck in the dzone in far more sheltered minutes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leafed
I don't think he's traded. Funny how bubble players play with their best intensity just before the TDL. Get Tie in for a day long seminar on how to fight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom