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Why is Holl still in the lineup??

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Holl can be fine in a reduced roll on this team considering the new additions.
 
shaner89 said:
It’s f***ing disgusting. It’s making me hate keefe and this team. I cannot watch anymore of this bs
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Dude. We will never all love what's going on. Instead of being so angry all the time, why not take time to enjoy all the great things that are happening?

You're about to watch one of the best Leafs teams we've ever seen play in one of the toughest conferences ever. You "can't take any more of this bs" and the team is 4th in the entire league and just added 6 players to help going into the playoffs.

I don't like Holl at all. He's brutal out there. Let's not overreact though. There are far worse players in the league. Every team has a guy or 2 that the fan base hates and the coach loves. It's just the reality of life.

Just try and enjoy yourself. That's what sports is about.
 
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Holl is a number 7 now, which is fine.

There are no excuses now. Keefe was forced to use him now he wont be.
 
Zybalto said:
Holl on the season:

5v5 (He's played the most 5v5 minutes of any D on the Leafs this year):

Ozone start%: 38.74% (lowest on the team among regular D)
Shot differential: 52.58
xGF%: 52.79
Goal differential: 53.87
+/-: +14

Just D numbers:

Shots against/60: 26.11
Scoring Chances Against/60: 27.81
xGA/60: 2.43
Goals Against/60: 2.33

Considering he's also a good PKer and only makes 2 million, the insane takes about him don't even get close to matching his extremely solid numbers and value this season. Are these not good shutdown D numbers on a good team?

He does have his lapses and is going to get less responsibility going forward with the added depth so lets see how things shake out with the new pairings. Straight up replacing him with McCabe and getting futures with him seeing as he's into his 30s is always an option but the team might even keep him on as a 7th minimum if we lose a Gio/Brodie/McCabe/Lilly as we know he is a guy that can step in and be effective. I also wouldnt be shocked if he starts as the 4 in the playoffs though. He's been good this season.
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Holl - good all-round numbers with occasional defensive lapses = terrible.

Marner - good all-round numbers with occasional defensive lapses = wonderful.

Am I doing this right? :sarcasm:
 
The problem with this Holl discussion is we're at the point where every error he makes is treated as an abnormal/extreme event rather than the reality which is every player in the lineup is likely going to make a mistake each game.

It doesn't mean he gets a free pass on those (he doesn't and shouldn't).but he also shouldn't be held to a standard that no player can live up to. What matters is if the player is able to be a net positive contributor - which is more likely to see from him given the increased depth pushing him to lesser usage
 
Leafed said:
Holl is the latest installment of the team's whipping boy. There's always one. It's not enough to love certain players on a team, the fan wants to unite in hatred of another. To be a fan of a team is to fall in line with certain narratives.

Holl's not a bruiser, he's not an offensive dynamo. He's a modern defensive defenceman that angles his lanky body into keeping opponents to the outside. He starts the highest percentage of shifts in the defensive zone (17%) on the team and is an elite shot blocker (5.14 blocks/60). When he's performing at his best, he has proven over the years to be great at shutting down a team's best players. His 26 takeaways lead all Leafs defencemen before acquiring McCabe.

He is also prone to giving away the puck, leading the team with 35 defensive zone giveaways, something probably exacerbated by how often he's starting in the defensive zone. Still, giveaways are what limits his ability to play regular minutes in the top 4 and has seen him rotate in and out of the lineup.

Next season he'll definitely be gone, paving the way for Lily and Timmins
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To an extent the giveaways are also a factor of coaching, as several of our forwards are way too prone to blowing the zone early, limiting our D options. (Leafs are third in giveaways, just behind Rangers and way back of Montreal).

Leads the D in hits and hits/60 (now that Sandin is gone), second in blocks and blocks/60 (to the GOAT), leads in takeaways and second in takeaway/giveaway ratio to TJ.

I haven't factored in the occasional players like Benn or the new ones, until we have more than a handful of games to look at.
 
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Maple Leaf said:
This D gambling is the dumbest tactic let's see how it works out
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There's a risk reward with activating your defense the way the Leafs seem to and I think they generally benefit from it. The exception being close games where you shouldn't force things (like a Game 7) or when it just breaks down and you get your doors blown off like Wednesday.
 
Leafed said:
Holl is the latest installment of the team's whipping boy. There's always one. It's not enough to love certain players on a team, the fan wants to unite in hatred of another. To be a fan of a team is to fall in line with certain narratives.

Holl's not a bruiser, he's not an offensive dynamo. He's a modern defensive defenceman that angles his lanky body into keeping opponents to the outside. He starts the highest percentage of shifts in the defensive zone (17%) on the team and is an elite shot blocker (5.14 blocks/60). When he's performing at his best, he has proven over the years to be great at shutting down a team's best players. His 26 takeaways lead all Leafs defencemen before acquiring McCabe.

He is also prone to giving away the puck, leading the team with 35 defensive zone giveaways, something probably exacerbated by how often he's starting in the defensive zone. Still, giveaways are what limits his ability to play regular minutes in the top 4 and has seen him rotate in and out of the lineup.

Next season he'll definitely be gone, paving the way for Lily and Timmins
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The whipping boy is usually the weak link, and coincidentally often sits on the fault line of a lot of debate because it reflects who put them in a position not to succeed. Don't want to be the whipping boy, don't play like a dope.
 
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Does anybody have a link to a respected NHL analyst who rates Holl as a poor player? Just looking for a more objective (or perhaps less emotional is a better phrase) viewpoint on him.
 
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notdoneyet said:
If holl plays against tampa we will go out in the first round
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Holl is better than Schenn, Gus, and Timmins right now so he should be playing.

Ideal starting 6:
Rielly-Brodie
McCabe-Liljegren
Gio-Holl

Flip Brodie/Liljegren if needed. Schenn rotates in as the 7th guy. Holl and Liljegren are both elite on the 3rd pair. Both are decent on the 2nd and have moments where they get caved in top matchups.

Schenn is a decent 7th but only played between 30-40% of their playoff games in both cup runs. Run with the better players, then you have depth when you need it.
 
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i have a feeling woll might save dubas’s job. Matt Murray’s AHL save % before being brought up to go onto winning the cup was .931, Binnington’s AHL save % before being brought up to go onto winning the cup was .927. Woll’s AHL save % this year, .931……
 
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To the people saying he is a good 3rd pairing dman.. sure but that is not how Keefe uses him, ever, not once this whole season. He always gets 20 minutes if not 24. Its insane
 
Sandin out, 1st out and retention is CHEAP this year and we still have Holl in the top 4 alongside an extend Dubas thread :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
Holl is better than Schenn, Gus, and Timmins right now so he should be playing.

Ideal starting 6:
Rielly-Brodie
McCabe-Liljegren
Gio-Holl

Flip Brodie/Liljegren if needed. Schenn rotates in as the 7th guy. Holl and Liljegren are both elite on the 3rd pair. Both are decent on the 2nd and have moments where they get caved in top matchups.

Schenn is a decent 7th but only played between 30-40% of their playoff games in both cup runs. Run with the better players, then you have depth when you need it.
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I'd take Schenn over Holl purely for the toughness factor
 
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13pacheco31 said:
I'd take Schenn over Holl purely for the toughness factor
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I'd rather have a guy who doesn't get caved in when caught out there against really good players. I don't care how they do it. Give me the guy with the higher chance of keeping the puck out of out net.
 
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I never thought I’d ever defend Holl but he was fantastic when we went 12-2-1.
 
LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
I'd rather have a guy who doesn't get caved in when caught out there against really good players. I don't care how they do it. Give me the guy with the higher chance of keeping the puck out of out net.
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Okay, so definitely not Holl, he's absolutely useless and gets caught standing all the time
 
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