Why is Auston Matthews considered a top 10 player?

[Festinator]

Blake Wheeler is an awesome player no doubt. You don't think he's better than Matthews right now though do you?

Matthews has not outproduced Wheeler at any point since he entered the league last season. Wheeler had a higher points per game average last season and has a higher one this season as well. He has a larger impact on his team than Matthews does as Wheeler plays in all situations. He's playing the role of 1C right now while Scheifele is out, playing with our two youngest players on his wing and excelling at it.

There is literally no reason to say Matthews is a better overall player right now other than potential. Matthews will be better, but as of right now he isn't, and the reaction of disgust a few of you are having seeing him on the list just goes to show how much of an underrated player he still is.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Wheeler's a top 10 point producer over the last 5 seasons on a team that's had relatively little PP success and team success until this season. Where is your objective argument for Matthews being better than Wheeler right now? The only thing Matthews does objectively better is put the puck in the net, and there's a whole lot more to the game of hockey than that. This isn't to say Matthews isn't a great player, but I believe some fans have really put the cart before the horse in this discussion.

“Wheelers a top 10 point producer over the last 5 seasons”
“The only thing Matthews does objectively better is put the puck in the net and there’s a whole lot more to the game of hockey than that”

Most people take the #1C who doesn’t take shifts off offensively or defensively. Not that I’m implying Wheeler does

 

[snipes]

I’m not sure but I’d rather my team make the playoffs than sitting around measuring stick sizes over individual players. You’re obviously the generational expert so I’m sure You’ll let everyone know

Not the guy you were responding to but how many series have the Leafs won with Matthews?

 

[Festinator]

Wheeler's a top 10 point producer over the last 5 seasons on a team that's had relatively little PP success and team success until this season. Where is your objective argument for Matthews being better than Wheeler right now? The only thing Matthews does objectively better is put the puck in the net, and there's a whole lot more to the game of hockey than that. This isn't to say Matthews isn't a great player, but I believe some fans have really put the cart before the horse in this discussion.

It's just shocking how he's been so good for so long yet is constantly disregarded. He's not even been to an all-star game yet.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Not the guy you were responding to but how many series have the Leafs won with Matthews?

How many did the Oilers win in McDavids rookie year?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Let's stop with the nonsense of blaming McDavid for the Oilers lack of success this year. It's as if people don't even follow hockey and realize it's a team sport.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Matthews has not outproduced Wheeler at any point since he entered the league last season. Wheeler had a higher points per game average last season and has a higher one this season as well. He has a larger impact on his team than Matthews does as Wheeler plays in all situations. He's playing the role of 1C right now while Scheifele is out, playing with our two youngest players on his wing and excelling at it.

There is literally no reason to say Matthews is a better overall player right now other than potential. Matthews will be better, but as of right now he isn't, and the reaction of disgust a few of you are having seeing him on the list just goes to show how much of an underrated player he still is.

You mean to tell me in Blake Wheelers 10th NHL season that he outproduced a rookie by a whole 5 points while playing with a PPG+ centre? Colour everyone shocked. Who has Matthews centred this season and last? 3 of our youngest players. Matthews always plays 1C position and plays every situation besides PK because we have enough depth to have designated PKers

 

[heretik27]

“Wheelers a top 10 point producer over the last 5 seasons”
“The only thing Matthews does objectively better is put the puck in the net and there’s a whole lot more to the game of hockey than that”

Most people take the #1C who doesn’t take shifts off offensively or defensively. Not that I’m implying Wheeler does

They're both 1C's currently who don't take shifts off.

 

[JetsHomer]

No, he's not.

Then neither is Matthews, because Wheeler scores at a higher pace and is better defensively

 

[nturn06]

I’m not sure but I’d rather my team make the playoffs than sitting around measuring stick sizes over individual players. You’re obviously the generational expert so I’m sure You’ll let everyone know

And somehow the Oilers missing the playoffs have some influence on AM being a top 10 player or not?

Are you implying that if the Oilers somehow sneak in the playoffs, then the great AM is NOT a top 10 player? Or maybe it has no bearing on the discussion?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Then neither is Matthews, because Wheeler scores at a higher pace and is better defensively

You'll have to explain why you think the guy who is a negative possession player who gets scored on more often + allows more high quality chances while he's on the ice is the better defensive player?
he also scores at a lower pace at ES but feasts on the PP.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but haven't you said Matthews is sheltered because of his zone starts in the past? he's got a tougher zone start ratio than Blake "Sheltered" Wheeler, so you better change your opinion on that

 

[Muston Atthews]

And somehow the Oilers missing the playoffs have some influence on AM being a top 10 player or not?

Are you implying that if the Oilers somehow sneak in the playoffs, then the great AM is NOT a top 10 player? Or maybe it has no bearing on the discussion?

I was just responding to a post

 

[Festinator]

You mean to tell me in Blake Wheelers 10th NHL season that he outproduced a rookie by a whole 5 points while playing with a PPG+ centre? Colour everyone shocked. Who has Matthews centred this season and last? 3 of our youngest players. Matthews always plays 1C position and plays every situation besides PK because we have enough depth to have designated PKers

We are literally talking about who is better right now are we not? So yes, I'm comparing Wheeler's last season and current season to Matthews last season and current season. Wheeler has performed better, therefore he is currently a better player. What is so difficult to understand about that?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Can a player really be generational if his team doesn’t make the playoffs? Has that happened before other than rookie seasons?



Whichever one is Matthews

Mario Lemieux says hello.

 

[Festinator]

Also correct me if I'm wrong but haven't you said Matthews is sheltered because of his zone starts in the past? he's got a tougher zone start ratio than Blake "Sheltered" Wheeler, so you better change your opinion on that

That statement is untrue for last season, and this season, it probably has something to do with Toronto being ranked 26th overall in offensive zone starts and 6th overall in defensive zone starts.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That statement is untrue for last season, and this season, it probably has something to do with Toronto being ranked 26th overall in offensive zone starts and 6th overall in defensive zone starts.

my point is that zone starts are always a useless metric

 

[Mr Hockey]

Matthews is in the top 20 best players in the league.

 

[Festinator]

my point is that zone starts are always a useless metric

Yeah but I don't think anyone was using it as an argument in the first place, unless I've missed something.

 

[JetsHomer]

my point is that zone starts are always a useless metric

Except when looking at how a coach wants to deploy a player. In Matthews case Babcock feels it’s beneficial to give Matthews the third most defensive zone starts amongst the 4 Leafs centers

 

[Critical13]

1. Big, strong, fast
2. Incredible vision
3. Top 5 release in hockey
4. Plays at the highest speed
5. Good defensively
6. Potential 40 goal scorer at 20 years old

He's a 20 year old kid who has taken a lottery team on his back and dragged them into the playoffs once, and might do it against this year.

Just a reminder to everyone - the Leafs are still a rebuilding team. They are young, and they still have quite a few relics from the dark years. Matthews raises the level of the entire team in a way that only a few players can actually do. The ones that come to mind are Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kucherov, Stamkos, Kane. A lot of the players on OP lists have vastly superior supporting casts.

It's obvious to me that he's a top 10 player. Throw him on a team like Winnipeg, LA, Chicago or Tampa and it would be more obvious. Can't devalue him because the team he is on is only in the beginning stages of an organizational overhaul.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I literally cannot believe what I am reading in this thread. I won't claim Matthews is the best, but some of these names being touted as being better... No idea what to say. It's obvious most posters do not watch any of these players they are comparing outside of the score sheets.

 

[Critical13]

Then neither is Matthews, because Wheeler scores at a higher pace and is better defensively

Just out of curiousity, do you actually think Blake Wheeler is a better player than Auston Matthews? Not judging, just curious if I am understanding correctly.

 

[Plural]

matthews plays with hyman, who needs the heimlich, and nylander who is on and off. marchand plays with bergeron and pasta. easily marchand has better linemates than matthews. bergeron tilts the ice in possession so obviously marchand would have higher possession numbers. also, shorthanded goals is not a defensive stat. its an offensive stat. however i do believe marchand is better than matthews defensively, but not overall. marchand imo is a guy who gets a lot of points and plays great defense, but he isn't a game breaker like matthews and the puck doesn't follow him like it does with matthews. another thing. selke voting isn't the best way to determine who is better defensively. you have to have quite a bit of points to be nominated for the selke. in 2013 ilya kovlachcuck was 38th in selke voting and he was a -6 that season.

Selke voting outside the top-5/8 is utter garbage.

 

[KPower]

I literally cannot believe what I am reading in this thread. I won't claim Matthews is the best, but some of these names being touted as being better... No idea what to say. It's obvious most posters do not watch any of these players they are comparing outside of the score sheets.

To be fair it's mostly jets fans.

 

[TMLeafs17]

This is a brutal list OP...

McDavid
Stamkos
Kucherov
Crosby
Malkin
Ovechkin
Tarasenko
Tavares
Benn
Backstrom
Kane
Gaudreau
Schiefele
Wheeler

The bolded I’ll mostly give you, but you can argue a few of them due to line mates and PP opportunities. There’s not many wingers in the league I’d take over Matthews. The guy is never out of position, plays hard every single shift, and has no deficiencies in his game while being elite at lots.

I mean what are we really hoping to get out of the thread? Boohoo, Matthews isn’t top 10, he’s only top 20? Looks like open season to slam the Leafs, as usual...