Why did nobody respond to the hit by Adam Mair ---I mean, Radko Gudas?

[jgatie]

That and the fact that was the turning point in the series and the Stanley cup was on the line.

A little different than a meaningless pre-season game....

Absolutely. Picking Aaron Rome as an argument for "turn the other cheek" hockey is absurd. It may not have spawned an immediate response, but it led to one of the most physically and mentally dominating series finishes in Stanley Cup history. Up till that moment, the Bruins were wearing kid gloves, and the Nucks thought they could out bully the bullies. Once Horton's arm went into the fencing stance, those gloves came off, literally and figuratively.

Now queue the "I hate physical hockey" folks who will say it had nothing to do with being physical, it was all Tim Thomas (the same Tim Thomas that laid out a Sedin in the crease, and hacked the legs out from under Burrows).

 

[pierre gagnon*]

Glad to see GudASS get 6 games, should be as long as Czarnik is out or double. Hopefully someone takes his spot and he losses it. Somebody should have made an attempt at him regardless, just to let him know.

 

[DKH]

Comparing the response in a preseason game v a game with history on the line is a bit of a stretch.

good point. What should happen is the 4 guys on the ice go on trial in a Behind the B feature.

Each player on the ice when Czarnik got hit could be represented by an attorney and plead his case as to why he didn't respond.

A jury made up of Internet Tough Guy Bruins Fans could vote. I consider myself both an Internet Tough Guy and one in real life depending of course who I'm dealing with so I would like to at least be on the Jury if not the foreman. We could later make a film Twelve Angry Posters.

Those convicted of seeing it but not responding would be dealt with during sentencing by Paul Stewart.

 

[BklyNBruiN]

Weakest excuse in hockey from wimps, "we needed the two points". Sending a message that you won't be bullied or allow your teammates to be cheap shotted without a response is worth far more than two points in the long run.

But the game has been ruined by softness and turn the other cheek and let the league handle it mentality. What is being played now is barely recognizable as hockey.

I also love how the anti toughness crowd dismissed Marchand using Sedins head as a speed bag as a turning point in that series. I wonder what would have happened if somebody stood up for Sedin?

I love reading your post's Fenian24. Well said!

 

[BklyNBruiN]

Glad to see GudASS get 6 games, should be as long as Czarnik is out or double. Hopefully someone takes his spot and he losses it. Somebody should have made an attempt at him regardless, just to let him know.

Agreed. That is what the punishment outta be.

 

[BklyNBruiN]

Despite typing it out you missed the "seemed to target head" part? Really?


I don't actually think the hit itself was late (when run in real time) or deserving 6 games but that was likely collateral damage from all of Gudas'..... collateral damage so they were looking to send him a message. That being said, he targeted Czarnik's head and anybody could see that Czarnik had been concussed by the hit and wasn't coming back. He was lying on the ice, they stopped the play, he had to be helped off, the replay was played over and over aaaaaaaand nothing. Again, after Gudas got out of the box, a fresh Miller had a chance to challenge him for the hit and didn't want anything to do with it.

As I predicted in my first post, it looks like my dates were off as Krejci was cheap-shotted by Mair in January of 2007:

That 06/07 Bruins "team" (35-41) was a heartless Dave Lewis abomination and that Krejci hit was the straw that broke the camel's back. Jeremy Reich was called up from Providence after Krejci was targeted with a late headshot (season was already shot and Lewis' was a dead man walking).

In the first game against Buffalo, Reich went after Mair. Mair turned down invitations for further fights from Reich and I clearly remember him keeping his nose pretty clean against Boston after this (I remember because once we got Thornton, later, I was really hoping that Mair would give Thornton a reason). I'm not willing to say that Mair was scared of Thornton (it sure seemed like he was, but whatever) or even that he changed his style of play but it sure as hell was nice to see a response --in the form of calling up Reich then signing Thornton in the offseason and bringing in Lucic as a fiery rookie-- from a Bruins organization that was getting pushed around and run at.

Rite on Colt 45. I'm with you.. I wish we still had Thornton on the team.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Rite on Colt 45. I'm with you.. I wish we still had Thornton on the team.

Because Thornton stopped Savard from being concussed?

And Loui (twice) ?

And Bergeron (by Giroux, not Jones)?


E Kane knocked Cooke out. Did that stop him?

McQ beat the hell out of Torres. Did that stop him?

When are you guys going to get it? The response makes us feel better (don't know about teammates), but it doesn't do a damn thing to stop dirty hits. It's just the way certain guys are wired, and the only way to stop them is to get teams to stop employing them.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Because Thornton stopped Savard from being concussed?

And Loui (twice) ?

And Bergeron (by Giroux, not Jones)?


E Kane knocked Cooke out. Did that stop him?

McQ beat the hell out of Torres. Did that stop him?

When are you guys going to get it? The response makes us feel better (don't know about teammates), but it doesn't do a damn thing to stop dirty hits. It's just the way certain guys are wired, and the only way to stop them is to get teams to stop employing them.

Again, it's not about stopping dirty hits. It's about letting your teammates know that if/when someone crosses that line, they'll have to answer for it. Most people who've played organized team sports (especially hockey) know that a team who has each others backs tend to play harder & pull in the same direction.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Again, it's not about stopping dirty hits. It's about letting your teammates know that if/when someone crosses that line, they'll have to answer for it. Most people who've played organized team sports (especially hockey) know that a team who has each others backs tend to play harder & pull in the same direction.

Would you agree that the 2010-11 B's Cup-winning squad was pretty tight and had each other's backs? The following guys were on that team and also on the team that didn't respond when Matt Cooke laid out Savard with an extremely dirty hit:

Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci, Chara, Recchi, Ryder, Boychuk, McQuaid, Thornton, Ference, Seidenberg, Marchand, Paille (I may have missed a few).

Key additions to Cup team: Horton, Campbell, Pevs, Seguin, Kelly

The key guys that weren't there: Wideman, Wheeler, Stuart, Kobasew, Satan, Sobotka


So, if you subscribe to the idea that "having a teammate's back" is a key component of a winning team, agree that the 2010-11 team was close-knit, and the majority of team leaders were also there in 2009-10...How do you explain the lack of response to the Savard hit in 2009-10 and the same nucleus winning the Cup the next year?

 

[Therick67]

Next questionable hit, I'd like to see all the Bruins go into the fetal position - because it doesn't matter..

 

[Bread and Circuses]

I dunno I watch the replay and while this hit certainly deserves the suspension the way it happened in real time it looks like most if not all of the B's on the ice missed it.

Even though it's Gudas I don't think you are going to see everyone on the ice for the B's jump in and pummel him if they didn't see the play, by the time the replay comes up and they see it he is already gone.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Next questionable hit, I'd like to see all the Bruins go into the fetal position - because it doesn't matter..

Awesome.

So, what you are saying is that you have no explanation either, and are deflecting?


ps It's ok to say you don't know. I can't really explain it either.

 

[Sheppy]

I don't care what anyone says their mentality 3-4 years ago is far, far different than what it has been these last few seasons.

The Bruins are a Poodle dressed in a Bear costume.

 

[The Zapper]

I wanna see some kind of response not because it'll set Gudas straight, but because he'll never change and is a total piece of ****. I miss when they'd make the whole opposing team pay for one dirty play, i.e. after the Rome hit when they bullied every Canuck.

 

[Therick67]

Awesome.

So, what you are saying is that you have no explanation either, and are deflecting?


ps It's ok to say you don't know. I can't really explain it either.

I know it's human nature to want to right a wrong. I grew up watching Terry O'reilly defend everyone and that's the way I like it.

What makes hockey great is the ability to be able to take the law into your own hands, because this league rarely gets things right.

I'm not expecting, nor do I want a bloodbath every time something happens, but I wound't mind a little anger on occasion.

My biggest criticism of this team the last several years is, a lack of emotion and IMO defending a teammate is part of that.

Hell, my sons a pee wee and a kid flattened his goalie Sunday, he and two of his teammates got in the kids face and they exchanged some pleasantries. That seemed to wake the bench up and the kids seemed energized by it.

Can I measure it or quantify it? No. Do I believe in it and think it's real? Absolutely.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I know it's human nature to want to right a wrong. I grew up watching Terry O'reilly defend everyone and that's the way I like it.

What makes hockey great is the ability to be able to take the law into your own hands, because this league rarely gets things right.

I'm not expecting, nor do I want a bloodbath every time something happens, but I wound't mind a little anger on occasion.

My biggest criticism of this team the last several years is, a lack of emotion and IMO defending a teammate is part of that.

Hell, my sons a pee wee and a kid flattened his goalie Sunday, he and two of his teammates got in the kids face and they exchanged some pleasantries. That seemed to wake the bench up and the kids seemed energized by it.

Can I measure it or quantify it? No. Do I believe in it and think it's real? Absolutely.

My son is an 03, small, and he plays the same way. Kid in the crease, kid with a late hit/dirty hit, and he's the first one there to defend a teammate no matter how much bigger the opponent is. I love that about him, and like to see it, but I'm having a hard time showing a correlation between those intangibles and winning teams.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I wanna see some kind of response not because it'll set Gudas straight, but because he'll never change and is a total piece of ****. I miss when they'd make the whole opposing team pay for one dirty play, i.e. after the Rome hit when they bullied every Canuck.

In this vein, I think I would be totally fine with a guy like Backes running Konecny (clean, but nasty) and then telling the Flyers and their bench that's what happens when Gudas cheapshots a smaller skill guy on the B's.

That tactic is far more likely to work than targeting a lug like Gudas.

 

[Mpasta]

Agreed. That is what the punishment outta be.

This punishment doesn't work. Say a non-POS hits and injures a scrub 4th liner and he's due out for 5 days but the team keeps him out of the lineup for the rest of the year then that wouldn't exactly be fair to the hitter.

I think 6 games is a decent amount.

 

[Bruins Uncensored]

wanna stop the dirty play?

On suspend-able offenses, take the offenders salary and pay it to the injured guy for as long as he is out of the lineup.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I don't care what anyone says their mentality 3-4 years ago is far, far different than what it has been these last few seasons.

The Bruins are a Poodle dressed in a Bear costume.

So is the rest of the league.

 

[Ice Nine]

Because Thornton stopped Savard from being concussed?

And Loui (twice) ?

And Bergeron (by Giroux, not Jones)?


E Kane knocked Cooke out. Did that stop him?

McQ beat the hell out of Torres. Did that stop him?

When are you guys going to get it? The response makes us feel better (don't know about teammates), but it doesn't do a damn thing to stop dirty hits. It's just the way certain guys are wired, and the only way to stop them is to get teams to stop employing them.

I actually think there's a small deterrent effect, though it's very difficult to prove (having to prove a counterfactual-- that but for having Thornton on the ice, there *would* have been three or four more dirty shots).

Naturally, there are going to be some dirty hits and injuries no matter how tough your team is, that's hockey.

And also, just like in real life, there are sociopaths on the ice who cannot be deterred. Guys like Cooke and Torres, IMHO, basically fall into that category. You can pound them into the ice and they'll come next game and will just blindside someone because they cannot help themselves.

But then there ARE other players who do nasty hits/shots to try to needle teams, get a physical advantage, take out a good player, etc, but who can be deterred because it's just about calculations and deliberate actions to get an edge on opponents.

Mair is a player that is arguably like that.

But more importantly, I think there's definitely a rallying effect that *does* help win games. And it's been shown empirically.

Read this:

Fighting works.

The first-of-its-kind statistical analysis of the sport confirms the dirty little secret coaches and players have known since the dawn of the NHL. There's no more readily available, sure-fire way to shift the momentum of a game than to send a player out to start a fight.

By measuring offensive output in the three minutes after play resumes, researchers at powerscouthockey.com concluded that fights produced a surge by at least one team an eye-popping 76 percent of the time. The remaining 23 percent of the time, roughly one out of every four fights, both teams raised their games. Surprisingly, it isn't always the team whose players dominate the fisticuffs that benefits and researcher Terry Appleby said more work needs to be done to determine if those surges pay off in goals or wins.

Either way, the findings passed muster with a handful of players interviewed by The Associated Press earlier this week

"I've been made aware of what our record is when I fight and never really gave it a thought," said Boston's Shawn Thornton.

For the record, the Bruins were 38-13-8 in games when Thornton was involved in a fight. Even so, he might have embraced them a little too enthusiastically.

"I think it's just a testament to how hard our guys play and how we try not to let each other down," Thornton added. "But I'm a big proponent for keeping fighting in the game. I think it's an important part of the game. If these stats encourage it, then it's an encouraging sign and I'm all for it."

http://www.masslive.com/bruins/inde..._momentum_of_games_players_not_surprised.html

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

good point. What should happen is the 4 guys on the ice go on trial in a Behind the B feature.

Each player on the ice when Czarnik got hit could be represented by an attorney and plead his case as to why he didn't respond.

A jury made up of Internet Tough Guy Bruins Fans could vote. I consider myself both an Internet Tough Guy and one in real life depending of course who I'm dealing with so I would like to at least be on the Jury if not the foreman. We could later make a film Twelve Angry Posters.

Those convicted of seeing it but not responding would be dealt with during sentencing by Paul Stewart.

Great idea!

But there has to be at least a dozen Internet Tougher Guy Bruins fans. No Ohfense.

Colt.45Orr could be Lee J. Cobb.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Next questionable hit, I'd like to see all the Bruins go into the fetal position - because it doesn't matter..

I'd like to see Chara rip out the offending players jugular with hid teeth while the rest of the team sits in a drum circle chanting because that would build a team bond and 6 months later they'll win more games .

 

[Sheppy]

So is the rest of the league.

Yeah? And the Bruins have struggled ever since...

 

[Oates2Neely]

I actually think there's a small deterrent effect, though it's very difficult to prove (having to prove a counterfactual-- that but for having Thornton on the ice, there *would* have been three or four more dirty shots).

Naturally, there are going to be some dirty hits and injuries no matter how tough your team is, that's hockey.

And also, just like in real life, there are sociopaths on the ice who cannot be deterred. Guys like Cooke and Torres, IMHO, basically fall into that category. You can pound them into the ice and they'll come next game and will just blindside someone because they cannot help themselves.

But then there ARE other players who do nasty hits/shots to try to needle teams, get a physical advantage, take out a good player, etc, but who can be deterred because it's just about calculations and deliberate actions to get an edge on opponents.

Mair is a player that is arguably like that.

But more importantly, I think there's definitely a rallying effect that *does* help win games. And it's been shown empirically.

Read this:



http://www.masslive.com/bruins/inde..._momentum_of_games_players_not_surprised.html

Still waiting for the "2 points" fribble crew to comment on this.

Some fans like fighting and teammates defending each other, others prefer more gentlemanly hockey & wouldn't get a boost in momentum if they were on the wrong end of a dirty hit and had a teammate take on the offender. To each their own, but to demand statistical data to nullify your point is silly & just extending a silly debate.